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full frame or not full frame that is the question
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Sep 27, 2013 17:30:28   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Effate wrote:
...and that is probably why the full frames win in noise. When you crowd too many photo sites on a small sensor it seems noise is the first form of IQ degradation to appear.


Yet one of the great things about the D7000 is its capability to shoot at high ISO. It handles noise very well.

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Sep 27, 2013 17:36:53   #
golf96 Loc: Milton, Massachusetts
 
Truth is we buy what we want not what we need...if you are wanting a FF...even after you buy a new crop sensor all you will think about is a FF and never be happy till you have it...I call it camera envy....I suffer from it

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Sep 27, 2013 17:37:24   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
A lot of folks are going compact system and selling their DSLR. Just been looking at Canon and for £300/£400 you can get one that shoots RAW. new EOS 3/4ths will take some of your lenses using an adapter. I too have the 450 and its not really worth selling/trading in. I would hold off buying a FF till you see what the modern mirror-less systems can offer. I can see the bottom falling out of amateurs using high end high cost cameras when a click gets you a fair approximation of the same picture.

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Sep 27, 2013 18:04:06   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
G Brown wrote:
A lot of folks are going compact system and selling their DSLR. Just been looking at Canon and for £300/£400 you can get one that shoots RAW. new EOS 3/4ths will take some of your lenses using an adapter. I too have the 450 and its not really worth selling/trading in. I would hold off buying a FF till you see what the modern mirror-less systems can offer. I can see the bottom falling out of amateurs using high end high cost cameras when a click gets you a fair approximation of the same picture.


If they developed the best sensor ever you would not appreciate it without the superior glass to be able to resolve their capabilities. I have a friend who has an M9 and M9 Monochrome. To me they are merely computers capable of holding some of the finest glass in the world. Adapters are nice but most of the public is not willing to go technologically backwards by going full manual.

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Sep 27, 2013 19:49:21   #
lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode
 
Gary, with all due respect.
I largely agree with what you are saying because you ended at the same rough recommendation as me. And same as me, without really recommending it, but suggesting that it could be a great decision to end up with.
I repeat, the 70D does look like an interesting camera.
As does the 6D.

But.... (now comes the "all due respect" part.)

I think you make a contradiction and both statements are wrong.

...and to get the best performance you will need "L" series lenses...
I think this is wrong, there are many fine lenses out there that are as good as or better than L lenses in image quality.


.....AND NEVER PIXEL PEEP. It's a deadly sin that will cause you to want the most expensive lenses .....
Aren't you directly contradicting your previous statement?
And .... I always pixel peep.
I want to know how far I can blow up any particular photo.
I want to know which lens is better.
Sure, I may end up buying the adequate one. But I still want to know which is better.




GaryS1964 wrote:
+1

To the OP I'm an amateur who "upgraded" from a Panasonic DMC-FZ30 through a Canon T2i and 7D to a 5DMKiii over a five year period. Knowing what I know now I would have gone straight to the 5DMKiii and saved some money. But the MKiii wasn't available when I bought the T2i and 7D. Like you I tend to shoot everything. A little macro here, some family event shots there, vacation shots which can be family and landscape, and just walking around places like Monterey/Carmel and shooting whatever interests me.

Going FF means a large investment even if you go for the 5DMKii or 6D. None of your EF-S lenses will work on a Canon FF and to get the best performance you will need "L" series lenses. That's not to say the other EF lenses won't do the job for you. It all depends on what you consider an acceptable level of IQ based on what you do with the photos you take.

AND NEVER PIXEL PEEP. It's a deadly sin that will cause you to want the most expensive lenses even though lesser lenses will do just fine for viewing on a monitor or printing up to 8x10.

Think about what you want most from you camera and read the reviews. Look at the EF and EF-S lenses that would suite your needs and not necessarily your wants unless you have a big budget. Perhaps just better glass would satisfy your needs. Or maybe the new 70D with some good glass would do the job. I love the EF-S 15-85 for a camera like yours or the 70D. A truly great walk around lens. But maybe you don't shoot the way I shoot.

Like the quote above says, only you can decide what will work best for you and fits your budget.
+1 br br To the OP I'm an amateur who "upgra... (show quote)

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Sep 28, 2013 12:25:33   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
unless you see a specific advantage to going full frame,then you'll do ok where you are now.

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Sep 28, 2013 12:25:33   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
unless you see a specific advantage to going full frame,then you'll do ok where you are now.

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Sep 28, 2013 15:10:27   #
GaryS1964 Loc: Northern California
 
lighthouse wrote:
...and to get the best performance you will need "L" series lenses...
I think this is wrong, there are many fine lenses out there that are as good as or better than L lenses in image quality.


When I'm looking for a lens I go to the-digital-picture.com and run their lens comparisons. I've only done this with lenses I'm interested in but the "L" lenses always come out looking the best in their comparisons. Having said that I have the Tamron 70-300 which is not the sharpest lens in my bag but I get some great shots with it because I know it's limitations. And I'm sure there are other good lenses out there that are not "L" lenses that do a very good job. My Canon 15-85 is a good example.


lighthouse wrote:
.....AND NEVER PIXEL PEEP. It's a deadly sin that will cause you to want the most expensive lenses .....
Aren't you directly contradicting your previous statement?
And .... I always pixel peep.
I want to know how far I can blow up any particular photo.
I want to know which lens is better.
Sure, I may end up buying the adequate one. But I still want to know which is better.


That comment was mostly in jest as it can lead to purchasing more expensive cameras and lenses when less expensive combinations are suitable for most amateurs needs.

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Sep 28, 2013 16:46:28   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Ken Rockwell wrote a piece called The Full Frame Advantage.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/full-frame-advantage.htm

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