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Dec 12, 2013 10:05:32   #
Gitzo wrote:
Turdlow; I have often wondered why you're such a twitt; and now it looks like the "cat is out of the bag"; (or more accurately, in this case, the "twit" is out of the "closet"! )

So, what's with all of the screaming & yelling about Uganda trying to pass a bill to shoot queers ? Why do you even "CARE"? as one of your OWN hero's would say, "what difference does it make"? (Or were you contemplating taking a trip to Uganda in the near future? ) I don't think you'll need to worry about the Ugandan's shooting you, Turdlow; after all, you're a U.S. citizen, right? I'm pretty sure all those "Ugandies" want to shoot are Ugandian faireys; If they do give you any trouble and act like they might be thinking about shooting you, just tell them that you're on "Ugly Hedgehog's" chit-chat forum, and that you "know me"! When they call me, I'll tell them that they better NOT shoot you! (just take you up on their highest mountain and shove you off a cliff. )
Turdlow; I have often wondered why you're such a t... (show quote)


Well with this I think I'll be going for a while. The real reason is that I have important things to do and it takes too much of my time to get sucked into these threads. I've wasted too much time this morning.


There are people here that I respect and admire. I am resisting naming names for fear of leaving someone out. I also respect those that I may disagree with but are capable of carrying on a reasonable respectful conversation. I wish them all well and a Merry Christmas.

I hope all here who consider themselves Christian, consider how well they represent Christ.

I really need to take a break and I am saying it here for accountability reasons. I truly need to take a break for unrelated reasons that are far more important in my life.

But here is what will make it easier. Gitzo, it truly disheartens me see such ugliness from someone, to put it simplistically, my side of many of the political issues. It's one thing to read insults from ole sarg or the blatant hypocritical bigotry of gnslgr but sharing the same side of the ideological divide with you makes me feel ashamed and wonder what's the point of posting. I don't even know what you think you are accomplishing. It can't be to win others to your side.

I'm not even on your side in light of this post. I care about human rights of all people.

I have said that left likes to throw around the term "hate" to discredit good people who disagree with their policies. Maybe I have been projecting too much. Let's give them some ammo why don't we? I am amazed every time I reread your post here. I think you outdid yourself this time.

I'm out of here. :( I know you'll probably tell me not to let the door hit me in the ass on the way out. If I can maintain any discipline, I won't know about it.
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Dec 12, 2013 09:05:23   #
ramapo wrote:
Bazbo provided a fairly complete list of examples of Christian-led political violence. He left out a few.

The most egregious Christian-led genocide since WWII took place in the 1990s in Bosnia with tens of thousands of Muslims murdered.


Depends on your definition if Christian. Who were these "Christian leaders"?

ramapo wrote:
More in the present you can look to the Central African Republic. This is more equal opportunity genocide. Muslims killing Christians. Christians killing Muslims. One of the 'Gods' must be right.

Consult the FBI's list of terror bombings over the last 20 years in the United States. Very few were by Muslims.


You are right. I see that attacks by left wing groups were 4 times as numerous as Muslim attacks but the Muslims had far more victims.http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html


ramapo wrote:
Not all Muslin-majority countries live up to your portrayal of Iran and Iraq. Check out Morocco.


I would hope not but how many are there? You left out Saudi Arabia and Egypt. And 13 Muslim countries around the world execute atheists. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUKBRE9B900G20131210

ramapo wrote:
Bottom line is there are good people and bad people. Murderous Christians and murderous Muslims. The problem is all religions have too many of its adherents who are all too ready to hate, discriminate against, jail or kill adherents of another religion.


Well yes there are. And when Christians do it, they are sinning acting against their faith. But are Muslims? We should hope there are millions of good people that grew up as Muslims that mean no one harm. But there is reason to question. As an outsider to the Muslim religion, I don't know what they truly believe. Islam was founded by a military leader. Islamic clerics around the world express support for terrorism and oppression. It seemed easier to find a needle in a haystack than to find an Islamic leader or organization who would condemn the attacks on 9/11. On the other hand, the murder of George Tiller was condemned by scores of Christian and pro-life leaders. Jesus did not advocate violence towards non-believers. Mohammed did and there are hundreds or thousands that still believe in that.

I don't think every person who happens to be a Muslim is a threat but their religion seems to be a motivator to those that are. I reject the equivalence of violence by a person of a particular religion who yells "God is Great!" with the violence of another who was born into another particular religion that he rejects.
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Dec 12, 2013 07:29:53   #
Twardlow wrote:
Who's Helping Finance Uganda's 'Kill the Gays' Bill? You Are
Posted: 12/03/2012 2:01 pm

Uganda Gay Rights , Foreign Policy , Uganda , U.S. Aid Uganda , U.S. Aid To Uganda , U.S. Foreign Aid Uganda , U.S. Foreign Aid To Uganda , Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill , Kill The Gays Bill , Uganda Anti-Gay Bill , Uganda Kill The Gays Bill , Uganda Lgbt Rights , Gay Voices News


Uganda is set to pass new anti-gay legislation with provisions calling for the execution of gay people under some circumstances. The rumor of the death penalty clause being removed seems grossly exaggerated. Dr. Warren Throckmorton, who has followed the legislation closely, indicates that some Western media are erroneously reporting that the death penalty clause has been removed. He writes that "the bill is the same bill it has always been. It cannot be amended until the committee report is presented to the floor of the Parliament." Even with the amendment the legislation remains a gross travesty of justice.

The "intellectual" fuel for this grotesque law came from Christian fundamentalists in the United States. According to The New York Times:

Much of Africa's anti-homosexuality movement is supported by American evangelicals, the Rev. Kapya Kaoma of Zambia wrote in 2009, who are keen to export the American "culture war" to new ground. Indeed, American evangelical Christians played a role in stirring the anti-homosexual sentiment that culminated in the initial legislation in Uganda.

American fundamentalists operate in Africa both openly and covertly. They conduct public "crusades" to covert African Christians to their extremist views but also run a plethora of "charitable" projects operated "under the umbrella of nongovernment organizations (NGOs), which provides them with access to grant monies from various overseas agencies," according to "Globalizing the Culture Wars," a report by Political Research Associates (PRA). Because none of this is reported, PRA acknowledges that "it is difficult to quantify the exact amounts going to Africa," but all of it contributes to their influence.

Churches in Africa have been lobbied by American fundamentalists to drop ties with mainstream Christian groups and promised funding if they do. PRA says that African leaders, especially "presidents Yoweri Museveni of Uganda, Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, and Sam Nujoma of Namibia have all used homosexuality to distract people from the issues facing their countries and churches by claiming that homosexuals are responsible for moral decay in Africa. They have linked homosexuality with child molestation, ritual child murder, corruption, opposition parties (in Uganda), pornography, and other social ills. Yet these same leaders are silent about human rights abuses and undemocratic tendencies in their countries." (Also see Zimbabwe: The Death of a Dream.)

American fundamentalist Rev. Rick Warren, featured by President Obama at his inauguration, traveled to the region to meet with political leaders. His public message in Uganda was, "Homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right." Whether Warren cares to admit it or not, that statement expresses tacit approval of laws against LGBT people, because, by his theory, no violation of rights is involved.

This repressive measure was born out of American Christian fundamentalism and corrupt politicians using anti-gay campaigns to divert attention from their own misrule. But how do these regimes survive? What keeps them in place? The sad answer is that the U.S. government has poured billions of your tax dollars into Uganda.

International security expert Peter Bergen wrote in The New York Times that Obama "has turned out to be one of the most militarily aggressive American leaders in decades." As part of that new aggressive foreign interventionism, the United States has been arming the government of Uganda and training the military.

As Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton met with Museveni to discuss new U.S.-Uganda military cooperation. This started during her husband's term as president under the so-called African Crisis Response Intiative, seen by some as merely an excuse for the American military camel to get its nose under the tent. The Obama administration has escalated U.S. involvement with Uganda's military.

Voice of America reports that the purported reason for the escalation of support to Uganda has been the "threat of the Lord's Resistance Army," but they also report that Paul Omach, professor of security studies at Makerere University in Uganda, says that that is not the primary reason that the United States is involved in Uganda. He notes that the LRA is only "several hundred" in number.

Mobhare Mitinyi, who wrote for Tanzania's The Citizen, also found Obama disingenuous. He asked:

Why has Obama taken this rather unexpected step at this time when the LRA is already reduced to merely 500 active fighters? In fact, five years ago Ugandan forces pushed Kony out of Ugandan territory for the first time although they couldn't wipe his group out. On top of that, the brutal messianic leader is on the run trying to dodge the International Criminal Court's arrest warrant. So, why now!

He quotes Obama as saying "that deploying these US armed forces furthers US national security interests and foreign policy." It's part of what Bergen called Obama's aggressive foreign interventionism. Mitinyi says new U.S. legislation "launched a satellite intelligence program with Uganda along with RQ-11 Raven miniature unmanned aerial vehicles for reconnaissance and helicopters," which has "completely changed US intelligence and logistical capabilities."

The AP reports, "Already this year, the Pentagon has poured more than $82 million into counterterrorism assistance for six African countries, with more than half of that going to Uganda." This military aid supports Museveni's government. Prof. Omach warned:

The paradox of external military assistance in authoritarian states is that it ends up supporting authoritarianism, either intentionally or unintentionally. The countries with military means at hand will always use military means to resolve political disputes, even at home. So that is possibly one of the unfortunate impacts of the U.S. military involvement. I think it has given the government and Museveni's leadership a lease on life.
Even while the Ugandan government is preparing legislation that will allow it to arrest anyone who supports gay rights and give it the power to execute people for homosexual acts, the U.S. government is willing to continue funding the regime so as to have military access to Africa in order to fight this undefinable and unstoppable "war on terror."

This is not the first time gays were thrown under the "war on terror" bus. In Iraq the United States set up a regime that has allowed gay Iraqis to be hunted down and murdered. While that regime was put in power by the U.S. and relied upon it for support, the U.S. has said nothing to them about the killings. One Iraqi gay activist who escaped to London says that as many as 750 gay men have been executed by radical Islamists and government forces alike.

American money propping up the Museveni regime is significantly more than what is given militarily. In the last four years the U.S. has lavished almost $1.8 billion in aid to Uganda. Ostensibly, this government-to-government aid is supposed to help economic development, support infrastructure, provide health issues, etc. In reality much of ends up in the pockets of the ruling elite and their bureaucrats.

Uganda is considered so corrupt that many other major donors have already pulled funding. The Guardian reported in November that Britain "has suspended all direct aid to the Ugandan government with immediate effect." Some concerns arose from the fact that funds from Ireland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden "had ended up in accounts belong to the prime minister's aides" instead of going to projects for which they were intended. Uganda's increasingly heavy-handed authoritarianism has also come into play. The Guardian says that Museveni's reputation has "dimmed in recent years because of his heavy-handed tactics in dealing with political opposition and following accusations that he has been arming troops in the Democratic Republic of the Congo."

Uganda's New Vision newspaper reports that in addition to Britain, Germany, Denmark, Norway and Ireland had decided "to halt payments in the wake of a scandal involving theft of donor's funds."

Corrupt regimes in Africa use the plight of their people -- often the result of the government's own policies -- to extract aid from wealthier countries and donor organizations. The Daily Monitor, a Uganda-based newspaper, bluntly editorialized that "corruption thrives at a large scale in government. The implication is that a considerable percentage of the money which comes into the economy as aid is the same money that is embezzled." Member of Parliament Gerald Karuhanga charged that "Uganda continues to ask for foreign funding but when the money comes, it goes in the wrong hands. If fact, very little foreign assistance would be required today if all of our leaders were clean and ready to serve."

In The Politics of American Aid and Conflict in Northern Uganda, Sophia Boehm makes an important point about foreign aid in the case of Uganda: "Rather than facilitate development in Uganda, US aid has instead legitimized and propped up a government that relies on undemocratic practices to maintain power."

Uganda's "kill the gays" bill would be reasons enough to end U.S. financial support, but we should also consider the fact that such aid does not reach the people for whom it is intended, instead lining the pockets of corrupt government officials. American taxpayers are funding the government that is pushing this legislation and enriching the officials responsible for it. Our military is helping the Ugandan military keep this corrupt regime in power. Like it or not, every American taxpayer is funding the "kill the gays" legislation.


I know name calling will follow, and slurs on Huffington Post, but there is plenty here to google for anyone who seriously wants to investigate.
Who's Helping Finance Uganda's 'Kill the Gays' Bil... (show quote)


This is basically making the case for isolationism or non-intervention since we almost will be engaging or supporting the bad guys against other bad guys in the rest of the world.

Twardlow wrote:
I point out that we have 'religious' leaders traveling to South America (one country specifically, but I forget which) and to Moscow to get those countries to pass laws to execute--yes, execute--gays. AND, if you know someone is gay and you don't turn them in, it's a prison sentence for you.

Some Christianity!


This appears to be a different story to the one my friend had to retract but still doesn't backup your assertion that we have have 'religious' leaders trying to incite other countries to execute gays. That charge is what my liberal friend retracted as further research satisfied him that it wasn't true.

The only name named in your post was Rick Warren. In the interest of balance, lets look at what he says about the subject.
Quote:
Pastor Rick Warren, whose work fighting AIDS has taken him around the continent and has given him the opportunity to visit and work in Uganda many times, posted on Friday a Twitter message reading: "An unjust law in Uganda is back in the news. I opposed it 3 yrs ago and I still do," which was also shared with The Christian Post by Kristin Cole, a spokesperson for Warren.

In his statement three years ago, Warren stated that it was not his role to interfere with the politics of other countries, but that he still has a duty to speak out on moral issues. He said the bill was "unjust, extreme and un-Christian toward homosexuals."

As to why he hadn't made the statement when the bill first started making rounds in Uganda's parliament, he said that "some erroneously concluded that I supported this terrible bill, and some even claimed I was a sponsor of the bill. He added, "I oppose the criminalization of homosexuality."
Pastor Rick Warren, whose work fighting AIDS has t... (show quote)
http://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-condemns-uganda-anti-gay-bill-after-faith-lgbt-groups-call-for-response-86289/
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Dec 12, 2013 06:46:37   #
Bazbo wrote:
Well, this is going to be fun.

First of all, nice attempt to put your right wing spin by using the term "late term abortionists". Did you really think I was going to let that pass? Here is a fact--a tiny percentage of abortions occur during the third trimester (I would be happy to provide you with links to sources if you really to contest this. But you have the same Google I have. Look it up for yourself.) So the Christian zealots are murdering more than just late term abortionists. And lets not forget the receptionists, security guards and others who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Collateral damage, I suppose.
Well, this is going to be fun. br br First of all... (show quote)


I used the term "late term abortionists" for a specific reason. The case I recalled from the news was that of George Tiller, who performed late term abortions. He appears also to be the only abortionist killed in the US since 1998. So for the last 15 years in the US, that is accurate. Before then it is much more ugly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#Murders

I already said this was the area that you had your best case and I'll leave it there.


Bazbo wrote:
The KKK is not a Christian organization? Funny, that's not what they think:

http://www.kkk.com

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/price&bowers/klan.html


Of course not. I read your links. What they "think" is irrelevant. They don't follow Christian teaching and actively oppose it.

Were the NAZIs socialists? That's what they think since they chose the name "National Socialists" but I recall the lefties on UHH jumping all over someone for making that assertion. So what's the difference?

Bazbo wrote:

"Do you really expect us to believe that Russia jailing political dissidents is motivated by Orthodox Christianity?" No--but it is the Orthodox Christians who are doing the jailing.


How do you know Orthodox Christians are doing the jailing? Maybe it's those official atheists from the USSR days.

Bazbo wrote:
Let's go to Nazi Germany: Although the Nazi Leadership disavowed religion, the population of Germany at the time was nearly 100% Christian. Hitler did not drag the Jews off to the camps himself--it was the good German Christians who did that. Apparently without any second thoughts whatsoever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

http://markhumphrys.com/christianity.ww2.html#summary


This may be your second best case as the leadership and congregations of many (most) German churches caved/cooperated/agreed with the Nazis. However, there were also those who remained true to their Christian beliefs and were imprisoned or killed for it. Many of the Christian churches were the first victims of NAZI war criminality.
http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/nurinst1.shtml

I question how many of the nearly 100% of the population actually practiced Christianity.

Bazbo wrote:

"How is the rise of neoNazis in Germany, Italy, and Greece related at all to Christianity?" Because they arise from predominantly Christian cultures and traditions.


And by that logic Richard Dawkins is a Christian because he grew up in an Anglican Christian culture and tradition. He might take offence at that.

The question is what is Christianity? You have a very broad definition encompasses nearly anyone who is not explicitly identified with another major religion.

Is the United States of America a Christian nation? It seems to depend on the agenda of those making the argument or who they are arguing with. For the purposes of this debate you would say yes in order to indict Christianity for the actions of those who never set foot inside a church or professed a belief in Christ. I suspect you would argue the opposite if a right wing Christian said it was and cited the founding fathers etc.

I just happened on this http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUKBRE9B900G20131210

Reuters wrote:
In 13 countries around the world, all of them Muslim, people who openly espouse atheism or reject the official state religion of Islam face execution under the law, according to a detailed study issued on Tuesday.
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Dec 12, 2013 05:44:58   #
Gitzo wrote:
Turdlow; I have often wondered why you're such a twitt; and now it looks like the "cat is out of the bag"; (or more accurately, in this case, the "twit" is out of the "closet"! )

So, what's with all of the screaming & yelling about Uganda trying to pass a bill to shoot queers ? Why do you even "CARE"? as one of your OWN hero's would say, "what difference does it make"? (Or were you contemplating taking a trip to Uganda in the near future? ) I don't think you'll need to worry about the Ugandan's shooting you, Turdlow; after all, you're a U.S. citizen, right? I'm pretty sure all those "Ugandies" want to shoot are Ugandian faireys; If they do give you any trouble and act like they might be thinking about shooting you, just tell them that you're on "Ugly Hedgehog's" chit-chat forum, and that you "know me"! When they call me, I'll tell them that they better NOT shoot you! (just take you up on their highest mountain and shove you off a cliff. )
Turdlow; I have often wondered why you're such a t... (show quote)


Gitzo REALLY???????????
:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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Dec 12, 2013 05:12:52   #
Bazbo wrote:
And have you checked out the Holy books of Christianity? The conditions under which a man is allowed to kill his children? How about polygamy, incest and genocide? This is just to name a few horrors from the Old Testament.


Yes there are a lot of disturbing things in the Old Testament. But that was then and this is now. There is also a New Testament. Christians are opposed to polygamy, incest and genocide in case you haven't noticed. It is Muslim's today that are known for killing their own children today. Anticipating your question "What about polygamy and the Mormons", it has been abandoned by the Church of the Latter Day Saints for some time and, no offence intended towards good people of that faith but when you add another prophet and book, it can be argued that it is no longer Christianity.
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Dec 12, 2013 04:45:56   #
magicray wrote:
How about for being a spoiled rich kid who is in bed with the big oil Arabs?


Take out the oil and you have a pretty good description of Al Gore
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Dec 11, 2013 09:40:24   #
Twardlow wrote:
I point out that we have 'religious' leaders traveling to South America (one country specifically, but I forget which) and to Moscow to get those countries to pass laws to execute--yes, execute--gays. AND, if you know someone is gay and you don't turn them in, it's a prison sentence for you.

Some Christianity!


PROVE IT!!! Sounds like a LIE from the SPLC.

This sounds very similar to a story that a liberal friend of mine posted on Facebook and then retracted. Why did he issue a retraction? He is an honest man and after looking into it, he found that it wasn't true. He made the mistake of believing a LIE told by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

I presume that you fell for the same lie because it matched your prejudices. Why don't you fact check that and get back to us.
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Dec 11, 2013 09:04:33   #
tramsey wrote:
The Nobel Peace Prize used to be an honor to receive, It was bestowed on persons for outstanding contributions in the fields of physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature, and peace. But ever since Obummer won it a couple of years ago it moved to the category of 'I Can Be Bought.' I means little or nothing of what it used to mean. Something else he screwed up.


I would say the committee that took the decision to award it to him screwed up. I have plenty to blame Obama for without blaming him for the actions of others.
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Dec 11, 2013 08:53:44   #
Canonuser wrote:
For months I've sat here reading all manner of whinging by Americans about their President. Today I saw this man stand head and shoulders above all other World leaders and make a speech at the Mandela memorial event that was stunningly brilliant. I cannot imagine any of his recent predecessors being able to speak so honestly or with such impact, conviction and meaning as he did today. We would all do well to remember his comments and implement them in our own lives, as doing so would make the World a far better place to live in. Certainly it would be far better to do this than sniping over such issues as Obamacare. His was the only contribution that brought everyone to their feet and should have made Americans feel proud, although I susoect there will still be plenty who will sadly wish to continue the sniping.
For months I've sat here reading all manner of whi... (show quote)


Obama is quite talented at delivering a scripted speech. Something that can be appreciated when you aren't directly affected by his actions or agenda. His approval ratings here in his own country have dropped below 50% in last few months and in a recent poll, a majority said they would vote for Romney if they could have a do-over of the election.
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Dec 11, 2013 08:28:10   #
ted45 wrote:
The law says that the Congress is required to sign up. The Democrats voted themselves an exemption but so far the only one to use it is Harry Reid.

Cruz is one of many in Congress that have argued that they should live under the same laws we do, so he is simply following his own code of ethics as are most of the Republicans. It is nice to see some in Congress actually trying to do the right thing and live by their promises.

Why can't you ever follow the entire story?


:thumbup: :thumbup:
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Dec 11, 2013 06:59:30   #
LuckyshotCT wrote:
How about not having political discussions on a photography site.


Simple solution: stick to the photography sections.
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Dec 11, 2013 01:21:39   #
Bazbo wrote:
OK--how about if we start with the Ku Klux Klan? After all, their symbol is a cross. Then we could go on to the Christians who bomb abortion clinics, and murder doctors performing a perfectly legal medical service. Then there is Russia, predominantly an Orthodox Christian nation that routinely jails political dissidents. All of the brutal central and South American dictatorships that were or are Roman Catholic. Or the troubles in Northern ireland when different types of Christians were quite busy killing each other. The European Axis powers were Christian nations---boy talk about killing--those guys take the prize. If 70 years ago is too far back for you to consider modern, we can look at the rise of the neo-Nazis in Germany, italy and Greece today.

i could go on and on--but I trust you get my point. Islam is not alone among the religions that justify killing to advance a political agenda.
OK--how about if we start with the Ku Klux Klan? A... (show quote)


For the most part, you did not answer my question. Citing the Klu Klux Klan as Christian because they used the cross? What Christian tradition is burning crosses? The KKK was a political terrorist organization. Do you really expect us to believe that Russia jailing political dissidents is motivated by Orthodox Christianity? Nearly every example you provide has nothing to with Christianity other than to have a significant part of the population nominally identify themselves as Christian. The northern Ireland war was a political dispute. How is the rise of neoNazis in Germany, Italy, and Greece related at all to Christianity? By your logic if an atheist in one of these "Christian" country went crazy and set off a bomb at a soccer match and killed hundreds of people it would a case of Christian violence because of where he lives.

The most legitimate point you have concerns the killing of late term abortionists and bombing of abortion clinics. Everything else you cited is relatively bogus.
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Dec 10, 2013 21:59:56   #
Twardlow wrote:
Yes, it is simple--AND TRUE!!!!!


Really??? Do you honestly believe "If you criticize Obama you must be racist."? Then isn't it also "simple and TRUE!!!!!" that if you criticize Clarence Thomas you must be a racist?
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Dec 10, 2013 21:29:40   #
ramapo wrote:
You must be kidding but sadly I am sure that you are serious.
Your paranoia is overwhelming as is your prejudice and hatred.

Sure some Islamists kill and preach killing in the name of their religion. You honestly think Christians are any better?

How many millions have been killed in the name of God (pick a god)? Religion is a handy excuse for killing people. It has been through the ages and it probably provokes more hatred than any other single aspect of the human belief system. You seem to be an excellent example.

Since God hasn't appeared before the world to pronounce the 'correct' religion and way to salvation, then perhaps you'd best consider that people with beliefs other than your own are just as honorable as you consider yourself to be.
You must be kidding but sadly I am sure that you a... (show quote)


What a silly question!

Name some Christians that kill and preach killing in the present. I would ask you to name a Christian country that imprisons people of another religion for merely practicing it or peacefully sharing it with others as Iran and other Muslim countries do to Christians but I'm not aware of any Christian countries period.

It has already been agreed that much killing in the name of religion is really political in nature. Unless communism is considered a religion there's been a lot of killing without religion as an excuse.

There may be millions of Muslims that mean others no harm but there is a large number that are willing to kill and die for their religion. It's in the news nearly every day. Again, a lot of killing in the name of religion is political by nature but how many people are willing to kill themselves along with others for a mere political cause. How many Christian suicide bombers have attacked in the last 20 years? That seems to be a Muslim phenomena.

Which followers of their respective religions is a bigger threat to the lives and health of people around the world today?
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