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Dec 24, 2018 22:53:14   #
CO wrote:
Wrong. You took the liberty to change what he said. Re-read his post.


The OP said "Why do these photos look grainy..the entire shoot of 75 pictures all looked about the same.. My I phone took better pictures"

Please show me where he asked about resolution. In digital photography there is no "grain". The "grainy" look is digital noise. Lens resolution has nothing to do with digital noise.
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Dec 24, 2018 22:07:45   #
CO wrote:
Everybody has already mentioned the sky high ISO of 25,600 as one of the problems and the small apertures used. LensTip.com does extensive lens testing. Here is an image resolution chart from their testing of the Sigma 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS USM lens. You used apertures of f/18 for photo #1 and f/20 for photo #2. That's way past the sweet spot range for that lens.


The OP here is not asking about resolution . . . he's wondering why so much digital noise. No connection to lens resolution.
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Dec 24, 2018 17:04:27   #
BebuLamar wrote:
So the simple conclusion, your "I phone" is the better camera. Others have pointed out while your pictures have grainy look.


Yeah . . . right. Print an 8x10 from both for the real answer!
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Dec 24, 2018 17:00:49   #
sumo wrote:
I consider myself taken to the woodshed and beaten... guess I didn't know my ISO setting was so high.....
pictures taken the day before were all OK...I have reset all my settings...
I do know slow shutter speed causes blur/out of focus...but I didn't think it would cause a grainy look...I have never had so many grainy looking photos...
have been taking pictures of my bookcase for the past two hours... constantly changing settings...I know the exposure triangle - what is amazing to me is I've been doing this for 60+ years, you think I would have learned something by now...
maybe I am getting too forgetful ...thanks for the feedback...
I consider myself taken to the woodshed and beaten... (show quote)

"I do know slow shutter speed causes blur/out of focus"

Only partly right . . . slow shutter has nothing to do with out of focus. Camera or subject movement caused by slow shutter only LOOKS out of focus.
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Dec 24, 2018 16:52:26   #
sumo wrote:
I consider myself taken to the woodshed and beaten... guess I didn't know my ISO setting was so high.....
pictures taken the day before were all OK...I have reset all my settings...
I do know slow shutter speed causes blur/out of focus...but I didn't think it would cause a grainy look...I have never had so many grainy looking photos...
have been taking pictures of my bookcase for the past two hours... constantly changing settings...I know the exposure triangle - what is amazing to me is I've been doing this for 60+ years, you think I would have learned something by now...
maybe I am getting too forgetful ...thanks for the feedback...
I consider myself taken to the woodshed and beaten... (show quote)


It is not the shutter speed or the aperture setting that has caused your "grainy" look. Because of the small aperture setting (NOT the shutter speed as it has no effect on exposure with flash) your camera was forced to compensate with a high ISO . . . it is the HIGH ISO THAT CAUSES DIGITAL NOISE aka "grain".
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Dec 24, 2018 15:46:47   #
Linda From Maine wrote:
Please elaborate. How would shooting wider aperture than f/18 or f/20 be wrong? Are you referring to shutter needing to synch? Please explain more for those of us who rarely use flash.


When using flash there are only TWO camera settings that affect exposure . . . ISO which is generally not an adjustment used from one image to the next, but is set according to the light situation at the moment. For best quality the ISO should be kept as low as possible for all situations.
The only other camera setting that affects exposure is the aperture. At a setting of F/16 or F/20 few flash units would have enough power beyond 5-7 feet.
Some of you are thinking that I have missed the FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) setting, but that is really more of a flash unit setting than a camera setting.

For wedding and other event photography, where under time pressures, little time is allowed for multiple setting changes and test shots, we have always used settings that allow as much latitude as possible to handle different subject distances, room conditions, lightness or darkness of subjects (think black tuxedos and white wedding gowns).

Most flash units (speed lights) are automatic today, and while using them in TTL, it is unwise to have the camera set at any automatic setting including Auto, Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, Program, etc. The camera in any auto setting sets the exposure based on the existing light BEFORE the flash fires. Indoors the result is almost always the too high of an ISO setting, aperture wide open, and/or slow shutter speeds as the camera tries to compensate for too little light for a proper exposure. By putting the camera on Manual, the existing (ambient) light is ignored, and the flash does it's own auto setting to achieve correct exposure up to it's power capability. Having both the camera and flash set to automatic confuses both the camera and flash and forces it to go beyond it's exposure analysis capabilities. The main result is inconsistency at best.

I know there are many ways to "skin a cat", but here is how we have been doing it for over a decade of digital wedding coverage, with results of over 95% success on exposure.

ISO 400 on all indoor flash shots . . . dropped to 100 outdoors with bright sun and 200 on cloudy days.
Shutter speed of 1/200 second to prevent camera/subject movement recorded from ambient light
Aperture F/4.5 for one or two subjects . . . moved to F/6.3 for groups and close in of three or more people for greater DOF

Because the flash TTL has latitude limitations, if, with those setting, shots are taken so close that the shot is over exposed . . . or so far away that shots become under exposed (when checked with histogram), we make temporary adjustments using the FEC. I should also add that we have always used Lite-Scoops on our speed lights that seem to disperse the light reducing the sudden drop-off of light. This seems to reduce the critical flash to subject exposure experienced with straight-on flash.

Sorry I couldn't give you an easy one sentence answer to your question. Hope that helps.
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Dec 24, 2018 15:00:05   #
PHRubin wrote:
Exposure (how bright the photo) depends on 3 things: shutter speed (the longer the shutter is open, the more light collected), the aperture (the wider open, the more light) and ISO which is like gain (the higher, the more light). However, each has other affects. You can get the same exposure with a variety of combos, but the other affects (like noise) will be different.

LEARN THE EXPOSURE TRIANGLE and the other affects adjusting each of the 3 will cause.

On the 3rd photo:
The ISO (25600) is much too high (causing noise) - learn about noise
The shutter speed (1/40 seconds) is open much too long allowing camera motion to blur photo - learn about stopping action
The aperture (f/20) is extremely small requiring the previous 2 to be very high - learn about depth of field
Exposure (how bright the photo) depends on 3 thing... (show quote)


These suggestions are dead on . . . if you are shooting with available light!!!! BUT all wrong if shooting with flash.
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Dec 24, 2018 12:11:00   #
sumo wrote:
Why do these photos look grainy..the entire shoot of 75 pictures all looked about the same.. My I phone took better pictures


Nikon D600, Nikon flash, and using a Sigma 50-250, 3.5-6.3 lens…set on aperture priority for a while then set to manual at abut half way through …. have used it many times before with much better results


Here is a 7 minute video that should show you how to correct your problem. Hope it helps.

https://youtu.be/S3IQFayyyoU
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Dec 21, 2018 17:17:13   #
#5
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Dec 20, 2018 05:40:44   #
Tahat 50D is a helluvadeal! I just sold my 40D . . . body only . . . for $300.00!
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Dec 20, 2018 05:33:06   #
Timmers wrote:
BASIC DAYLIGHT EXPOSURE:

Let me begin with a truly informed and some what obnoxious statement: Light meters are to photographers as heroin is to a junky, a monkey on your back. Cute Hugh! My camera has a built in light meter, I have a super expensive Minolta Flash Meter IV (the older super expensive one), I still have the Minolta IV and use it like a studio densitometer for technical set ups like flat copy.

If you truly know what you are doing a camera meter is useless most of the time and a hindrance to you mastering the craft of you photography. A much better tool and should be every photographer's camera bag is a down load from the internet and then printed out, laminated and kept in the camera bag.

It is the Brooks Institutes B.D.E. Guide. BDE = Basic Daylight Exposure, but that can be ever so misleading. Here is where you can find a copy at Garage Glamour.

http://www.garageglamour.com/tips/bdeguide.php

So BDE is based on the standard of the age old Rule of 16, that is f=16 where the shutter speed is 1/ISO. So in average daylight in the continental US will be f 16 and the shutter speed for ISO 100 would be 1/100 of a second. So that you don't get bogged down by the BS on the internet, there are TWO (2) modifiers to the rule of 16. First, this rule is true at SEA LEVEL. At 5,000 foot you GAIN one stop of light. The second is that the rule of 16 is true in SUMMER, in winter you LOOSE one stop of light.

If there is no light Example: Shooting fireworks displays, 'plus 6 stops BDE'. So you will loose 6 stops from the rule of 16, even though there is no sunlight! BDE is a new way of referencing the Rule of 16 it is that simple.

Here is the rub, by mastering this BDE and using MANUAL mode and ignoring the light meter you will be on the road to controlling your photography. How so? Here is why I selected the fireworks example. Your light meter is useless so you need this basic exposure guide of 6 stops less BDE. Here is what it will do for you.

Before the sun sets and the fireworks are still not activated you need to plan your photo opportunity. When doing photography it is a must for achieving great results and that means planning your gear and accessories. So here we go:

Lets say you have your location for the fireworks. First camera technique says that your main subject (the fireworks) are a goodly distance. What ever lenses you will use you will have the lens set to infinity. If you can, tape them down at infinity, with auto focus gear, turn OFF the auto focus, and camera body on manual. Your variable will be ISO (this will get rather tricky so don't be surprised!).

Next, there will be NO depth of field so the aperture is of no consequence except as an exposure control to the shutter speed. So at ISO 100 your exposure is 1/100 at f=16 MINUS 6 stops.

Keep clearly in mind one extremely simple rule: if you GIVE UP one f stop you GAIN one shutter speed.

Here we are loosing SIX stops for correct exposure so with f stops it goes 16 to 11, 11 to 8, 8 to 5.6, 5.6 to 4, 4 to 2.8, 2.8 to 1.4. (Here is a simple way to know f stops, they double and half to the second one above or below. What? f16 cut in half to f8 is a drop of TWO (2) f stops. So if you know any two adjacent f stops you have them all! F16 and f 11 are adjacent, so I cut f16 in half and get f 8. The f stop between f 8 and f 16 is f 11. going the other way, f 16 doubled is f32, while f 11 doubled is f 22. Their order is f32, f 22, f 16 and f 11 in that order. In the old days, we just clicked a shutter speed on the shutter dial UP on click and opened the fm stop ONE f stop larger! Easy back then! Here you need to 'know' the up and down of the f stop and shutter speed. DO NOT USE THE ISO to make exposure corrections, use the shutter speed and f stops to control your image out come.

So you do this calculations while the sun is out and if you are a smart person write it down! Make a cheat sheet for the photo session. You want one exposure set for high shutter speed and one for low shutter speed. This will be:
High shutter speed for fireworks: f 1.4 at f1/100 second for ISO 100.
Next is low shutter speed: f 16 at 1/2 second.
These are your first two cheat sheet entries for the fireworks 6 stops below BDE.

You can see that the first exposure procedure gives 'no blurring' while the second exposure with the 1/2 second will give you some 'blurring'. Now, this is were technique falls away and aesthetics takes over, when technique is put in the back seat and creativity takes over! But to get into fully creative mode we need to THINK creatively.

In the film Alice in Wonderland the Hatter asks Alice "How is a raven like a desk?" It's vexing because it is creativity at it's best! So now, Alice, "How are fireworks like a cloud?" I'm being dead serious here. The answer is that both are there and yet are not! They are both there but they are never what photographers say 'In focus'. It is NOT important that they are made of this or that, not important that they are 'in focus, or out of focus', they are just up there and we see them but you cant walk on a firework nor on a cloud! These things are just a sensation that we see but are in fact a moment in time. When we understand this we will begin to truly grasp what it is that we are working with. Or as that lovely statement by William Blake:

" To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour."

Ok, back to the technical. We want to make exposures that are longer than 1/2 second. We dial down the ISO from 100 to ISO 50, the shutter speed rolls down to one second. More, drop the ISO to 25 so we can have an exposure of two (2) seconds! Dam it Jim! The ISO only goes to 100! I have never invested in neutral density filters, I should get some! WAIT! my polarizer, it is like a 2 stop ND filter! Two stops! Bring the polarizer and put it on! Now at ISO 100 I'm down to 2 seconds of exposure.

I'm thinking, I will have the car in the open field and...get the bag of dry beans (nuts in a zip lock food bag (better double layer it!), and put that up on top of the car and steady the camera/lens on the bean bag!

Then the brain leaps forward into that creative space! What if I just move the camera during the long exposure! Kool, lets see how that works! Wait! What if I use the zoom lens and I zoom in, then zoom out on some during the long exposure, what about a slow speed, say 1/4 or 1/8 shutter while zooming!

Fireworks are no longer that boring "See what I did last time?" Fireworks become creative light pattern experiments.

All because you mastered the Rule of 16 and took over control of the camera and went on an adventure! Ugh OH! New Years is about two weeks away! Happy New Year!
BASIC DAYLIGHT EXPOSURE: br br Let me begin with ... (show quote)



That sir, is the biggest pile of hogwash I have ever seen, offered to teach anybody, anything!
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Dec 20, 2018 05:31:09   #
IDguy wrote:
The easiest way to use M mode is to actvate auto iso. Then you can play shutter speed and fstop and still get satisfactory exposures.

It isn’t much different than using P mode.


Sorry . . . but I don't believe you can learn to use manual effectively using auto ISO. The purpose of manual is to accomplish perfect exposure using the aperture and shutter speed setting properly.
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Dec 19, 2018 15:17:48   #
AndyH wrote:
Back in film days (tm) there were only two practical aspects of exposure control, aperture (a/k/a "f stop") and shutter speed, as changing your film's speed or sensitivity could not be done mid-roll, and there were fewer choices of film speed - 800 was extremely fast, now many DSLRs can shoot at the equivalent of more than 25,000.


The analogy that stuck with me is this:

You have to fill up a one gallon bucket of light, err, water.

If you choose to use a large diameter hose, you will only have to leave the faucet on for a few seconds.

If you use a skinny hose, you will have to leave the faucet turned on for a longer time to get the same gallon of water.

Andy
Back in film days (tm) there were only two practic... (show quote)


I got my first "real" camera at age 12 . . . a 35mm manual camera with F/stops and shutter speeds . . . that is EXACTLY what my mentor told me 68 years ago!! First time I've heard someone else use that example since then, except myself of course.

Just gave my grandson, 16 years old, my old Canon 20D. We had a talk about the settings and I set him up with the camera on Manual . . shutter speed at 1/200th second to minimize camera and subject movement . . . set the ISO at 200 to maintain quality and told him to pretend that the camera was stuck on those settings. Then the rest of the "shooting prep" was regarding exposure, adapting to the light by the size of the aperture (hole) using the built in light meter in the viewfinder . . . and the proper way to focus with the three step process of Focus . . . Recompose . . . and Fire.
Sent him out on a walk in the neighborhood and told him to come back when he had taken 100 shots. On his return he had 4 shots out of focus, and only 3 that were not perfectly exposed. I was so proud of him . He has been shooting for about three months now and still has never been tempted to use and "automatic" settings.
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Dec 18, 2018 11:05:02   #
farwest wrote:
First thing I have tried to talk my grandson out of me shooting his wedding reception and told him to hire a professional. They have one for the engagement, bridal and wedding pictures but I think they are banked out so he has asked me. My primarily shooting is sports pictures where flash is not allowed. I have shot landscape and wildlife but no weddings or engagement or reception pictures. That being said I have a Nikon D4, D500 and D800 to work with. Lenses, the holy trinity a 50mm 1.8 and 105 1.8 macro. Two Nikon sb910s and wireless transmitter and receivers. I have been practicing setting them up and watching youtube video's on shooting a reception hall which I don't have a chance to check out before hand because this is out of state. My question is when using flash and the distance to subject is changing what is the best way to stay consistent with your lighting.
First thing I have tried to talk my grandson out o... (show quote)


Check out this 7 minute video. Gets you started on the right track!

https://youtu.be/S3IQFayyyoU
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Dec 14, 2018 12:32:15   #
#2 for sure!
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