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Mar 13, 2020 15:19:41   #
sippyjug104 wrote:
The problem lays in the very definition itself which is, "social ownership of the means of production" and here's why:

What form of production has ever been started by a social collective where they put up their own money to start it? Please educate me if you know. The way that the 'social collective' ever owns the means of production is where a PRIVATE industry becomes nationalized. This is simply the government confiscation of an individuals (or a corporations) assets. Most often the owners are lucky to leave with their lives.

Socialism is not about creating....it is about overtaking..! It really is that simple. What's even more laughable is that the masses believe that if the government ceases control and ownership of an industry that THEY will get the benefits of it...HA HA HA HA HA how gullible these brainwashed souls are and the old adage of, "There is a sucker born every minute" has never been more true.
The problem lays in the very definition itself whi... (show quote)


You need to read a book.

You ask: “What form of production has ever been started by a social collective where they put up their own money to start it? Please educate me if you know.....”

You ask, “ What form of production has ever been started by a social collective where they put up their own money to start it? Please educate me if you know.”


OK, here goes.
If you stop to think about it, capitalism is a form of socialism. Someone wants to start a company and people buy stock in the company and become part owners. They have, in effect, created a social collective

You seem to be confusing socialism with communism.... a common mistake.

There never has been a communist country in accordance to Marx’s writings. The Soviet Union was dictatorship. China is a dictatorship. Cuba is a dictatorship. We called them communist because they were intended to be communist countries, but nature abhors a vacuum so a dictator soon filled the space. The closest thing to communism was the tribes that existed throughout the world a long time ago, including here in North America. In these cases people banded together for their common good. They hunted and gathered food for all to share.

Government ownership of production is too simple of a definition of socialism since capitalism is also a form of socialism.
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Mar 12, 2020 00:12:18   #
EyeSawYou wrote:
Off to the Supreme Court where Trump will most likely win.


I assume you are counting on a political decision rather than a legal decision and that the outcome will be a 5 to 4 decision along past demonstrated party affiliations. But, remember, Chief Justice Roberts wants desperately to avoid the appearance of the court being biased. I don't think a trump win is a slam dunk.
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Feb 19, 2020 03:40:07   #
drainbamage wrote:
Note "Seasonally Adjusted"

It's winter in the north of America.

Not Global cooling. Not Global warming.

The snowfall is beautiful...and it melts within a day or so...maybe a week. And then another beautiful snow storm falls around us and we all greet each other and invite us collectively into the nearest kitchen for coffee and warm chocolate with marshmallows. Then go back out and deal with the snow. Not anything cooling or warming about this.....been doing it for my past 50 years....and it still makes us feel good to get together and deal with the snow.

Sometimes there are 3 or 5 or even 7 feet of snow here, and other years there are just dustings of snow. The Great Lakes froze completely for the first time in recorded history four years ago. The following year not one of them even showed any surface ice.
Note b "Seasonally Adjusted" /b br br... (show quote)


You have to get up pretty early in the morning to fool Frosty when it comes to snow and ice.

From Google search.
“Records show that Lake Michigan and Lake Ontario are the only lakes to have resisted freezing over since recording began in the early 1900s. This is due to their lower latitudes and large depths.Dec 17, 2018”

The coffee and warm chocolate with marshmallows is still good, even if the Great Lakes are just open water lakes.

Does this relate to anything?
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Feb 19, 2020 00:59:10   #
Kraken wrote:
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump took a President's Day swipe at his predecessor, Barack Obama, as each sought credit Monday for the U.S. economy.

Mocking an earlier Obama tweet as a "con job," Trump blasted Obama for "now trying to take credit for the economic boom taking place under the Trump administration."

The strong robust U.S. economy – including the low 3.6% unemployment – is a central talking point for Trump on the campaign trail. Obama appeared to take a subtle dig with a tweet earlier Monday marking the 11th anniversary of the 2009 economic stimulus.

"Eleven years ago today, near the bottom of the worst recession in generations, I signed the Recovery Act, paving the way for more than a decade of economic growth and the longest streak of job creation in American history," Obama posted on Twitter.

Throughout the day, Democrats responded by praising Obama's tweet and arguing that Trump is reaping the benefits of the work his predecessor did. Republicans accused Obama of seeking credit for Trump's policies, an argument Trump echoed later.

"He had the WEAKEST recovery since the Great Depression, despite Zero Fed Rate & MASSIVE quantitative easing. NOW, best jobs numbers," Trump posted of Obama.

Trump has argued that his emphasis on reducing regulations and the 2017 tax bill has spurred economic growth.

Democrats noted that unemployment and stock prices began increasing under the Obama years as they bounced back from the Great Recession, a trend that continued into Trump's presidency. Trump loyalists pointed out that the unemployment rate is at its lowest point in decades while the stock market has been hitting record highs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/17/donald-trump-barack-obama-battle-twitter-over-strong-u-s-economy/4764273002/
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump took a Preside... (show quote)


—————-

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Wild unsubstantiated trump claims (Lies) or facts supporting Obama. You choose.
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Nov 20, 2019 02:20:33   #
EyeSawYou wrote:
Democrats had an absolutely brutal day so far during the impeachment hearings.

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman who was supposed to be their star witness, not only had never met President Donald Trump, he seemed to have contradicted his prior testimony.

Previously, he testified that he did not know who the whistleblower was. But when asked about to whom he had spoken about the July 25th call, he testified that he had spoken to two people over “interagency policy” George Kent and an individual in the “intelligence community.”

House Intelligence Committee Chair Adam Schiff then cut him off to “protect the whistleblower,” seemingly making it clear that the person who Vindman spoke to was in fact the whistleblower.

Nunes: Did you discuss the July 25 call or July 26 call with anyone outside the White House?

Vindman: George Kent, and someone in the intelligence community I'm not going to name.

Schiff interrupts to "protect the whistleblower."

The problem? He previously testified that he did not know the identity of the whistleblower.

Schiff also claimed that he didn’t know the name of the whistleblower.

Yet they just both didn’t name this guy, because Schiff said, it was “to protect the whistleblower.”

Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) honed in on it more, and he pointed out how this shows that Adam Schiff is not telling the truth and “no one believes him” about not knowing the identity of the whistleblower.

Jim Jordan calls out Schiff and Vindman:

"I don't see how this is outing the whistleblower. The witness has testified that he does not know who the whistleblower is. You have said, even though no one believes you, you have said you don't know who the whistleblower is..."

But then Rep. John Ratcliffe (R-) put the cherry on top of the cake.

Rep. Ratcliffe searched all impeachment documents for the word "bribery" - he found nothing.@RepRatcliffe made a monster stack of testimony on his desk for effect.

Wow.
WATCH:https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2019/11/19/game-over-rep.-ratcliffe-debunks-dems-whole-reason-for-impeachment

He noted on the Democrats had dispensed with accusing President Donald Trump of “quid pro quo” apparently assuming Americans were too stupid to understand what that meant and were going with the term “bribery” after they poll-tested that as a word that would resonate more.

He asked both witnesses, Jennifer Williams and Lt. Col Alexander Vindman, who testified today if they believed that what they had seen or knew about the Trump interaction was bribery. And both witnesses said, “No.”

In a case in which the Speaker has said is all about bribery, Ratcliffe said, not one of the witnesses has used the term. “None of them,” he said, dropping all the transcripts on the desk.

Ratcliffe noted there was only one reference to bribery in any of them and that was applied to Joe Biden, not Trump.

Case over.
Democrats had an absolutely brutal day so far duri... (show quote)


Impeachment involves more than bribery.

From t constitution:

“ The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.“

Impeachment is both a legal and polity process. The constitution is quite vague as to what is, “high crimes and misdemeanors.”

Case is not over.
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Oct 11, 2019 09:48:41   #
Kraken wrote:
UKRAINE MANIA -- Oh, you thought the news cycle was going to let you ease into your weekend? Think again, folks. On Thursday, we saw the most dramatic twist yet in the Ukraine scandal, with two associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani arrested on campaign finance charges for allegedly trying to influence politicians with foreign sources of money. These men were key players in helping Giuliani dig up dirt on the Bidens in Ukraine and also successfully sought to have the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, removed from her post at the behest of an unnamed Ukrainian official.

Speaking of Yovanovitch … as of right now, she’s still scheduled to be deposed by House investigators later today, though there’s always a chance the Trump administration could intervene. Her testimony is considered even more critical now for Democrats’ impeachment probe, reports the AP’s Adam Geller and Clare Jalonick. Meanwhile, Democrats are now expected to hear next week from Gordon Sondland, the U.S. Ambassador to the European Union, who was blocked from testifying earlier this week, per Axios’ Alayna Treene.

Subpoena season continues … Democrats slapped a subpoena on the pair of Giuliani associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, though they are likely to claim they can’t talk to Congress while they are under indictment. And Democrats also issued a subpoena to Energy Secretary Rick Perry for a series of documents related to his knowledge of Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukraine, report Andrew, Kyle and

What else? … Former Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), who is trying to mount a congressional comeback, was also ensnared in the indictment, according to the Dallas Morning News. The Giuliani associates had contributed money to Sessions, who later wrote a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo asking for Yovanovitch’s removal. (The associates also donated to Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who is returning the contributions, per Vice’s Cam Joseph.)

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/huddle/2019/10/11/the-impeachment-probe-takes-its-craziest-twist-yet-487412
UKRAINE MANIA -- Oh, you thought the news cycle wa... (show quote)


Looks like they have started draining the swamp and all sorts of nefarious creatures are being discovered. Soon the swamp will be nearly empty and the lowest creature, the slimy one with unruly orange hair, will be exposed for what he is. Meanwhile the wingnuts are pretending to sleep since they can’t accept the truth.
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Sep 3, 2019 14:31:53   #
Angmo wrote:
So you agree. You hate America.


So you are telling me what I think. You know what that makes you.
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Sep 3, 2019 14:29:48   #
Frosty wrote:
Conservatives have neither principles nor ideas
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Sep 3, 2019 13:01:22   #
BigBear wrote:
Exactly !!! Conservatives do not move from their principles. It is the liberals who are driving themselves further away from the laws that they hate so much, then misplace their hate on everyone but themselves where it belongs.


Conservatives have neither principles nor ideas
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Sep 3, 2019 13:00:20   #
Angmo wrote:
For the evil left:


Anytime someone tells me what I think, I know they are liars. They are simply making up stuff to support their distorted beliefs. It has nothing to do with me.
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Sep 3, 2019 11:14:04   #
Elaine2025 wrote:
Nor do I see any character or honesty in you, so I guess we are even.


I would expect you would fail to recognize both..... but that’s you.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:56:32   #
[quote=Frostyl

For Angmo and Big Bear, maybe I flung some SOS along the way. You two must have eaten all of it.

FYI, I volunteered and served eight years on active duty and nearly 22 years in the Air National Guard, most of it in F-4 Phantoms (F-4C, F-4D and RF-4C). I flew 100 combat missions over North Vietnam and I flew four combat missions over South Vietnam. I’ve lived four years in other countries. I’ve been to Tehran, most European countries, Lajes (mid Atlantic), Panama, the Philippines, Thailand and many places in between. ....and you?

I’ve had a lot of life experiences and considered myself a conservative until 1994 when Newt Gingrich took the party toward the far right. The party left me, I didn’t leave the party. So started a new chapter.

That’s enough[/quote]
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Sep 3, 2019 01:46:51   #
Double post. See below.
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Sep 2, 2019 18:50:21   #
Elaine2025 wrote:
Frosty, you really need to grow up, but as we all know libs don’t do anything but act like children. The fact that YOU are immature and childish enough to call him rump tells everyone all they need to know about you. You are an immature little child that doesn’t like to loose. It is typical of cry baby libs to declare themselves the “winner”, it somehow makes them “feel good”. To be liberal means deny anything and everything, call names and drive people off. You are nothing but a pimple that needs to be popped.
Frosty, you really need to grow up, but as we all ... (show quote)


Anytime someone goes off on an uncontrolled rant of personal attacks and avoids the issues completely like this, you know they are defeated but will never admit it. Admitting it takes character. I don’t see any of that in you.
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Sep 2, 2019 12:39:02   #
Elaine2025 wrote:
With zero facts, you assume a lot, geuss a lot, surmise a lot, and then you are off of a tirade of your own making. It takes facts, not your guessing and surmising. Grow up.


Rump did not serve in the military. Rump had a medical deferment for bone spurs. These facts are readily available to you on the internet.

There you have it Elaine and all you other wingers. There is no assuming, no guessing or surmising or made up facts, or tirade except for your assuming I made up facts etc. Your whole post is made up of denial of the facts and lies. Show some facts yourself. Show me that rump served in the military or show me the how he got out of it. Explain why rump admits he had a deferment and yet was able to play football. Explain why he brags about getting out of military service because he didn’t want to go to Vietnam.

Grow up Elaine. Admit you are battling a lost cause that is ridiculously obvious to anyone. I am going to do like Rump and declare myself the winner and leave.
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