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Mar 30, 2024 13:09:10   #
dustie wrote:
Agreed, there are many different weights possible, depending if vessel is empty, ⅓ weight capacity loaded, ¼ weight capacity loaded, ⅛ weight capacity loaded, full weight capacity loaded, the density of the cargo being such the volume is fully capacity loaded, but cargo density is low enough the ship still does not settle to the plimsoll line....etc....

That wasn't the point I was trying to bring out.

I was addressing the contention of moving the loaded Dali laterally, by pushing it at the center with a tug that is a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the weight and size and draft depth.
Trying to do that in 80 seconds, or less, was a time element I put in there, because going by the available videos, and publicly released timeline, it seems reasonable to expect that is all the time that was available from the point trouble was known to the point there was absolutely no time remaining to avoid collision.

If pushing those behemoths with a flea-sized tug at the center point of their length is the way to get the job done, it seems unreasonable to think the tuggers wouldn't be doing that after this many years of ........I dunno.......doing it wrong, I guess.
Agreed, there are many different weights possible,... (show quote)


The only point I was trying to make is that the 100,000 ton "weight" number mentioned so often for Dali is NOT the weight and has nothing to do with weight, it's a measure of the ship's volume.
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Mar 30, 2024 12:20:01   #
dustie wrote:
Maybe for a comparison, not necessarily to scale, but it may help get an idea.

Imagine yourself in a stream with a 120' long log, let's say, 8' in diameter. That log needs to be moved sideways to go through an opening between two pilings set in the river bed, but it is angled in the stream and heading toward one of the pilings, going off course, and it isn't very far from that piling.
At the speed it is travelling, it will be there in about 40 seconds.
Let's say it's only going 2.5 feet per second.

Now, you want to swim out there to the center of that log, push it straight sideways in the angled orientation that it has so it will go through that space between the pilings, without hitting either one, in less than 35-38 seconds.

If the way to sideways move, guide, control, shift, direct an object of 100,000+ tons, nearly one fifth of a mile long, whose lower edge is 40-50 feet below the surface of the water, using a little pusher of very diminutive size and weight, pushing only in the center of that wayward almost fifth of a mile long island, and get it done in 80 seconds or less, and not hit the.......

.......you're right !!!!!
They got nothing but numbskulls in those boats back there.....
......and after a few generations, they're only going downhill.
Maybe for a comparison, not necessarily to scale, ... (show quote)


The weight or mass of the Dali has been mentioned in several posts. Usually the figure thrown around is about 100,000 tons. The figure usually quoted to indicate the size of merchant ships is "Gross Tonnage". The number I've seen for Dali is 95,128 so that seems to be the source for the 100,000 figure.

But gross tonnage is a measure of volume not weight. "Displacement" figures tell you the weight of a ship but that number varies from Light Ship to Full Load. The total weight a ship can carry (cargo, fuel, stores, etc) is called the Deadweight Tonnage (DWT). The DWT figure I saw for Dali is 116, 851 tons. To that you add the Light Ship displacement to get the weight of the fully loaded ship.
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Mar 29, 2024 18:35:24   #
dwermske wrote:
I hope you don't think that 8mph is a high rate of speed. The ships momentum (even at 8mph) would have carried it forward hundreds of yards after the loss of power. The pilot even gave the order to drop anchors but it doesn't look like that happened. The anchor dropping mechanism is totally manual and would not have been effected by the loss of power. This information was reported by FOX News. The "Black Box" carried by marine craft is very primitive compared to the "Black Box" on aircraft. The information recorded was not continuous information but snap shots taken a specific intervals. This information was reported by the head of the NTSB.
I hope you don't think that 8mph is a high rate of... (show quote)


Why do you say that dropping the anchor didn't happen? Photographs clearly show an anchor chain on the port side....

(Attached photo from freightwaves.com)


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Mar 29, 2024 16:53:48   #
robertjerl wrote:
Years ago I read an article on a "breaker yard" in SE Asia. To save money they didn't use a dry dock, they waited for a very high tide and then with tugs and/or the ships engines got each ship up to max possible speed and ran them up the very wide and very slick sand & mud beach of a very low, flat shoreline as far as the momentum would carry them. Some made it so far they were above the tide line. Then work crews with cutting torches etc. swarmed over them until the last ton of metal went off to be melted and recycled.
With things as heavy as ships momentum is king.
Years ago I read an article on a "breaker yar... (show quote)


Alang, India
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Mar 29, 2024 10:57:42   #
SteveR wrote:
Interesting suggestion. In Detroit there is not only the Ambassador Bridge that links Detroit and Windsor, Ontorio but also a tunnel, which I always found to be fun to take as a kid.


Baltimore already has two tunnels!?
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Mar 29, 2024 09:47:07   #
Linda From Maine wrote:
Looking at the OP's comment history, I don't see that he's made a comment for a year, only posted photos (his or other people's) and moved on. So yeah, if you have a contact in the McCoy clan, let's bring them in!


You think you'll ever get an answer, Linda?

I find it frustrating when people post something and never respond to questions. On another thread I also asked if the OP had taken the photo he posted. Never got an answer.
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Mar 28, 2024 19:39:20   #
Longshadow wrote:
Isn't it interesting that a suggested alternative is perceived as a contrary so many times?

Back to my favorite word here-
Perception....


Reread his comment, Long. It wasn't a "suggested alternative".....
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Mar 28, 2024 14:18:14   #
dbrugger25 wrote:
You can be sure of several things. There will be an "investigation" that will take one to two years.

Competent people could complete it in a few days, but that is not how our government works.

The clearing of the wreckage should begin immediately but it won't. It will probably take months to clear at least one shipping channel. Again, remember that the people in charge don't care about the interrupted commerce.

The bridge could be rebuilt quickly. They already have all the engineering data. That won't happen because idiots are in charge. It will probably take years and the Democrats in charge will blame the whole thing on Republicans. If Republicans were in charge, they would blame Democrats. God forbid that they would all understand the importance of working together to just get it done.

Meanwhile, billions of dollars of commerce and inconvenience will be imposed on the thousands of commuters and businesses that rely on the use of the bridge and the port of Baltimore.
You can be sure of several things. There will be a... (show quote)


I agree with SuperflyTNT. He gave you a good response:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-803079-9.html#14536864
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Mar 28, 2024 14:13:04   #
robertjerl wrote:
The specs I found only mentioned the bow thruster.


I was going by the markings put on the sides of a ship to show the location of thrusters. I thought I saw a photo of the Dali that showed such a marking near the stern of the ship. I can't find that picture now so I could well be mistaken.
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Mar 28, 2024 12:59:12   #
pendennis wrote:
No it wouldn't. Dropping the bow anchors brings a whole new set of problems with a ship of that mass and length. An emergency anchor was dropped, but that's akin to dropping a fishing line and hook and hoping it catches on some weeds.

Dropping the anchor will require power to the winches and windlass gear. Time is also a factor.


They did drop one of the bow anchors. You can see the anchor chain on some of the photos.
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Mar 28, 2024 08:45:01   #
jerryc41 wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2024/03/27/dirty-fuel-baltimore-key-bridge-collapse/


Of course that could have been a cause or contributing cause.

I just object to the dogmatic way some people rush to judgment. It's sadly emblematic of so much of our discourse on vitally important national issues.
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Mar 28, 2024 08:26:02   #
Canisdirus wrote:
The ship lost power completely...because of...dirty fuel.

It's an ongoing racket...here at home. They fill up and get 80% good fuel and then they mix in 20% of garbage fuel...and charge the same.

Has zero to do with the crew...the ship probably choked when they dropped their rpm's...and they could not get it started again.


Oh, good! We have another expert answer. No need to waste money and time on any further investigations....
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Mar 27, 2024 21:55:01   #
veralisa296 wrote:
Here's one of my florals, hope you enjoy them!


I love it!
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Mar 27, 2024 20:03:04   #
robertjerl wrote:
I just found some info on the "Dali", it is a Hyundai built in South Korea and does have a powerful bow thruster but when the power failed, no thruster. in addition to no rudder control.


It also has a stern thruster. But, as you say, no power, no thruster.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:37:17   #
DirtFarmer wrote:
I am not a marine engineer (my experience is limited to a plastic canoe) and all I know about this event comes from the internet. I have to believe that the pilot who was in charge was experienced (you don't get to be a pilot without experience) and did whatever (s)he could to prevent the ship from going off course. After all, (s)he is answerable to the authorities and his/her future is at stake. Answers will come from analysis of the black box and interviews with the crew as well as the videos of the ship and everything we have seen on the internet. Until then, I have to consider that it's an accident. There may be events or actions that led to the accident but this is not the forum to lay blame. That will be up to the NTSB (or maritime equivalent).
I am not a marine engineer (my experience is limit... (show quote)


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