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Jul 5, 2017 03:36:23   #
CHOLLY wrote:
How did you like the exposure preview and additional information available in an EVF?

I mean... I know you prefer an OVF. So I guess I should ask if you would be open to a hybrid type setup with the OVF and projected information into the display.

Would that be something you would be interested in?


As for hybrids, no thanks. I don't even like the LE display of the shutter speed at the bottom of the viewfinder on my Leica and much prefer the match-needle on my old Leica M5 of the clean finder of a Leica M2.

I like a camera that looks, feels and operates like a camera instead of a computer. I had an A7sII for a while and didn't like it. I tolerate the Nikon Df, but hardly love it despite it being the best thing going for using vintage Nikkor primes with full-aperture viewing and proper manual focusing (I had mine modified with a split-image focusing screen from a Ninon FM3a). The Leica SL was better than the A7sII for feel, but it still is more computer than camera.

Its the same reason why I prefer primes over zooms, won't wear a digital watch and prefer to shoot with a revolver to an automatic despite zooms being more versatile, digital watches being more accurate and automatics holding more bullets; as I don't base my preferences on specs or price.

I've tried Fuji's hybrid viewfinder and its better than a pure EVF, but its no optical rangefinder. When I hold the Leica (film or digital) in my hands it inspires me to shoot. It is a visceral and tactile pleasure to work its controls, and without any automation beyond shutter speed (I rarely even use that) I know that when a shot comes out just right, that it was my skill and not "the computer" that is responsible, just as when something isn't right I have nothing and nobody to blame except myself.

You know what else? Since moving to the M-D model without even an LCD I find that I take far fewer pictures, but at the end of the day have far more "keepers".

Back to specs, Leica's new M10 is "better" than my M-D on any spec sheet except for battery life. I'm not upgrading because my M-D is already "good enough" in image quality, and better at not looking or feeling like a computer.
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Jul 5, 2017 03:23:56   #
CHOLLY wrote:
How did you like the exposure preview and additional information available in an EVF?

I mean... I know you prefer an OVF. So I guess I should ask if you would be open to a hybrid type setup with the OVF and projected information into the display.

Would that be something you would be interested in?


Not as much as I like the constant, real view through my Leica M-D's optical viewfinder with infinite depth of field and viewing OUTSIDE the frame so I can see things as they enter and leave the capture area. I also didn't like how as I stop down the lens, things got grainy due to the EVF having to gain-up. Most importantly, I like manually focusing using the superimposed images on the Leica optical rangefinder, which to this day remains THE most accurate focusing system for wide-angle lenses, right up there with lenses up to 50mm and not far off with lenses up to 90mm. Since I shoot mostly with 28mm and 50mm lenses and favor street photography, the Leica M is about the best camera going. I look at my subject, instead of at my subject ON TELEVISION as I would with even the best EVF.

Don't get me wrong, EVFs have advantages. They just aren't as important to me as the advantages of the optical viewfinder/rangefinder on a Leica M.
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Jul 4, 2017 23:41:30   #
CHOLLY wrote:
Have you tried a modern EVF?


Yes, the one in the Leica SL, which is considered the best on the market.

I prefer optical.
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Jul 4, 2017 22:34:44   #
CeeJay wrote:
Interesting conversation.
I've always wondered what made people buy the cameras they did. I'd love to see (maybe it already exists ) kind of a "checklist". You put in the features you want or need, rank them by: must have, would like to have and would be nice to have. then a selection is made for a system based on your selections from highest price to lowest price.


A "checklist" implies that one buys on specs alone, but if I had to quantify my last two purchases (Leica M-D and Nikon Df) into checklists they would each be very short, with it quite difficult to list five features.

For the Leica it was:

1) Optical rangefinder
2) Optical rangefinder
3) Optical rangefinder
4) Clean ISO 1600 for color and 3200 for black and white.
5) Full frame

Obviously, that checklist is easily satisfied by any digital Leica except for the M8 and M9, and the lack of clean ISO 1600 is why I upgraded from the M-E (M9), which I was otherwise still delighted with, to the M-D, which I am also delighted with.

For the Nikon:

1) Clean ISO 6400 for color and 12,800 for black and white
2) Optical reflex viewfinder
3) Easily uses vintage Nikkor prime lenses maintaining infinity focus and exposure metering (automation not required)
4) Interchangeable focusing screens (split image for manual focus)
5) Full frame

The Nikon Df fails on interchangeable screens, but since there are aftermarket screens for it I give it a pass. The Canon 6D also qualifies, and was my previous SLR. I only upgraded to the Nikon for the slightly better high ISO performance and more importantly for the full-aperture metering with Nikkor primes. For use as a modern DSLR with AF and/or zoom lenses I actually liked the Canon 6D more, but since I no longer own or use any AF or zoom lenses (not counting the ancient Nikkor 43-86/3.5 version 2 sitting in the cabinet that I almost never use) AF performance or convenience with zooms doesn't make my checklist.
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Jul 3, 2017 15:28:19   #
Kmgw9v wrote:
I agree completely. I alternate the 35mm 1.4 and the 58mm 1.4 as my "walk around lens".
I have the 28-300--but use it only for travel.


I have the 24-120/4 that was meant for travel, but honestly have never used it (it came with a camera body). Every time I travel, I take two or three primes, usually a 24 (Nikon) or 28 (Leica) and a 50 and never really wish for anything more. For traveling light I split the middle and just mount a 35 (or stick with a 50).

I should pack up that 24-120 for sale.
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Jul 3, 2017 10:27:37   #
CHOLLY wrote:
John, it looks like the 6DII is actually nothing but an 80D with a full frame sensor for about $750.00 more.

Is that sensor worth $750.00? I don't know...


Just as the 6D was basically a 60D with a full frame sensor.


Oh, yes, the full frame sensor is most definitely worth the extra money.
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Jul 3, 2017 09:08:23   #
BebuLamar wrote:
How much you think they would charge you if you want no aperture priority automatic? I do realize that less is more..


I don't know or care. I don't use the aperture priority mode very often and wouldn't miss it. But since it's just another click on the shutter speed dial I wouldn't miss it if it were gone, but would t pay extra to remove it.

Now removing the screen, JPEG capability and auto-ISO setting cost exactly $800, which is the difference between the M-D typ 262 that I bought and the more conventional Mtyp 262 that has a screen (but still no live view or video).
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Jul 3, 2017 00:30:55   #
CHOLLY wrote:
Cool.

But Shouldn't Canon offer you more? I mean, for $2000...........


My camera body was $6000, has ZERO autofocus points (no autofocus at all) AND NO LCD. In fact, the ONLY automated feature is shutter speed in aperture priority mode. Hell, it won't even do auto ISO or shoot JPEGs, only Raw.

Oh, as a rangefinder it won't work with zoom lenses either, but then, I have no desire to use zoom lenses, or autofocus, or to shoot JPEG.

Features per dollar is NOT how real photographers pick cameras.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:37:11   #
Kuzano wrote:
The innovative camera makers are Olympus, Fujifilm and Sigma. The rest are poor at best at innovation. Both Canon and Nikon show their lack of innovation by their mediochre advances and attitude/reluctance to do enter the field of mirrorless.

It's simple if you pay attention. Who innovates?


Innovation is not the most important thing in this industry. Image quality, ergonomics, responsiveness, even just the way something looks and feels (Fuji has done well here) are quite important.

Ask any Leica owner how important "features" are.
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Jul 2, 2017 14:19:24   #
WillieWisconsin wrote:
While not a Canon shooter, I personally think that the 6D Mark ll is a wonderfully spec'd camera for someone wanting to enter the full frame realm, who is not wanting to spend $3,000+ for a professional grade model. That point has been made in this thread, but for some reason it's not sinking in. Again to reiterate, this is an entry level full frame camera, and doesn't need all the bells and whistles like some posters wish it had! I can totally understand why it has what it has.


Words of wisdom.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:24:13   #
bwana wrote:
4K video at the very least! I love the capability to capture high quality 4K video and do frame grabs for pix.

Not too sure why Canon really released the 6D II if they weren't really serious about an upgrade from the excellent 6D!?

bwa


Its a very nice upgrade from the original 6D, with no price increase. Swivel screen, higher resolution and better (though not top-line) autofocus. It is, at least on paper, improved in every way.

Were I a Canon FF shooter looking for an entry-level body the 6D2 would only face competition from the original 6D or a discounted 5D3.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:22:07   #
I owned the original 6D for about four years and was very happy with it, shooting with some excellent L prime lenses (35/1.4, 50/1.2 and 135/2). Gradually I stopped using autofocus and started to use mostly vintage manual focus Nikon prime lenses, the interchangeable focusing screen and low-light performance of the sensor was the major selling points, along with the light weight. My 6D was always fitted with the "Precision Matte" focusing screen that really improved manual focus accuracy, and eventually I replaced that with a shaved-down split-image screen from a Canon 1D-whatever (www.focusingscreen.com sells these).

My daughter developed an interest in food photography, so I put the Precision Matte focusing screen back into the 6D and gave it to her along iwht my only remaining autofocus lens, the surprisingly good 50/1.8 STM. I will buy her the 100mm f/2.8 L Macro for her birthday in November.

My plan was to replace the 6D with another one. The 6D remains perhaps Canon's best low-light DSLR for manual focus, but seeing a good deal on a Nikon Df (which Cholly should hate even more with its 16 megapixels and complete lack of video mode) I switched to a Nikon body. Had the Df been less expensive at release, I would have bought one right away.

I don't know if the 6D2 has interchangeable focusing screens, but I do know that if I still shot autofocus my main camera body choice today would be between the original 6D and the 6D2, and most likely I'd go for the original as I always shot center-point anyway.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:14:29   #
Peterff wrote:
Here, kitty, kitty!


I think the 6D2 and 5D4 (also lacking 4K video) must be like catnip to this guy.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:11:38   #
Peterff wrote:
If Cholly had a cat, it would either go feral or commit suicide! Cats have self respect.


A neighborhood stray perhaps?
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Jul 2, 2017 12:09:43   #
CHOLLY wrote:
CAN they be used?

SURE THEY CAN.

And since the 6DII is used mostly for portraiture and landscape photography... you know; where manual focus is acceptable... then those lenses will work just as well as on a native body and give BETTER image quality with the mirrorless cameras.


Dude, did Canon kill your cat or something? Get a life.
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