Dave,

Thanks for the links. I have read, understood, and agree with all of them. I also agree with most of your tutorial where you describe the benefits of EBTR.

The primary concern is your assertion that EBTR allows cutting the shutter duration in half to permit hand-holding with a longer lens, or using a monopod instead of a tripod.
Can you give me an example of that, using numerical values for shutter duration and lens focal length?

Gary

Dave,

Without a doubt, the best quality comes from exposing as far to the right as you can, without exceeding the capabilities of the sensor.
Certainly, I would prefer a camera with a sensor of large dynamic range.
I'm simply pointing out that it is not always best to use all of that dynamic range, depending on the scene and the objectives.
It may be more important to have larger depth of focus, or shorter shutter duration, rather than a higher quality image.

I also understand that if the brightest highlights fall one stop less than the highest available from the sensor, then 50% of the possible sensor values are going unused.

My assertion is that when you expose beyond the right, you incur the cost of longer shutter duration or larger aperture.

Here is my rationale.

Start with a normally exposed, sunny day scene, ISO 100, 1/100 sec shutter, f/16 aperture, using a 200mm lens.
In this case, it would be difficult to hand-hold the 200 mm lens, but a monopod would probably be OK.

If instead, you expose beyond the right, then according to the tutorial, the shutter duration would become 1/200 and you would be able to hand-hold a 200mm lens.
It seems to me that this is incorrect.

What actually happens is that the shutter duration becomes 1/50 sec, and a tripod is required. This is exactly opposite of what is stated in the tutorial.

Note 1: My comments and justifications are related to raw capture.

Note2: This is not an expression of my opinion of when to use EBTR. Each user must evaluate the benefits and cost, depending on the objectives.

Thanks,
Gary

Dave, Yes I did miss your post. When you replied using a PM, I thought it was better to reply with a PM, rather than posting on the thread. I'm still learning the protocol of forums.

Although he used 'shutter speed' instead of 'shutter duration", I knew what he meant because he speaks of cutting the shutter speed in half to permit hand-holding with a longer lens. With EBTR, you loose the ability to hand hold a long lens, rather than gain this ability.

It depends what you define as "the right". If this means the right of the true raw histogram, then you are correct. Anything beyond the right will be blown out and not recoverable.

The way I've seen the terms used is in relation to the camera display histogram. ETTR pushes the histogram data to the right of the display, where EBTR pushes the data beyond that, but still within the usable range of the sensor. In fact, this difference is what Dave calls extra raw-accessible dynamic range (ERADR), the primary topic of his original post.

My credibility is important to me. Part of that is to acknowledge my mistakes or misunderstanding. However, in this case, I think my credibility is intact.

We agree that the shutter speed needs to be slowed, but his example implies a faster shutter speed.

This says that you can go from 1/100 sec with metered exposure, to 1/200 with EBTR, and therefore gaining the ability of handholding a 200 mm lens. This is opposite from what really happens. With EBTR you need to change shutter speed to 1/50 to get the added exposure.

I considered that. The original thread was a bit old. I thought it was better to start a new thread.
I'm new to forums so I have some learning to do. I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

As I said, all comments are welcome.

This is in response to Dave Graham’s post titled Tutorial: Welcome to Raw Exposure.
I have carefully read his post and understand the concept of extra raw-accessible dynamic range (ERADR).
Note: The following discussion is based on a fixed ISO.

There are some statements that are completely accurate.

Basically, he's right. If you need maximum dynamic range, then expose as far to the right as you can, without exceeding the highest range of the sensor (blowing out the highlights).

However, this comes at a cost. Dave is misleading when he writes

In reality, you would need an f/1.4 lens in order to expose one stop to the right, instead of an f/2.0 to expose normally.
Dave goes on to write:

In reality, you give up one stop of exposure (illumination) for every stop that you move the exposure to the right.

This is not only wrong, but the reverse is true. You need one stop slower shutter speed when you move the histogram one stop to the right.

Dave's advice is good if you need to bring out data from the shadows.
If you have a low key (black cat in a coal bin) scene, it's a good deal to EBTR and give up shutter speed or depth of focus to gain shadow detail.

However, if you have a low dynamic range scene, with midtones in zone V, then it may be better to use normal exposure, rather than give up shutter speed or depth of focus.

Keep in mind, this is based on fixed ISO, adjusting exposure as necessary. If you want to vary ISO in order to EBTR, then that is a discussion for another day.

Please don't consider this as an attack on Dave. I'm just stating the facts as I see them. Any comments (positive or negative) are welcome.

Gary Minor

In Lightroom, create a collection of the desired photos.
In the library module, drag and drop the images (not the frames) to arrange them.
Export them to a folder.
- In the "File Naming" section, check the "Rename To:" box.
- Select "Custom Name - Sequence".
- Enter desired "Custom Text:"
- Set "Start Number" to 10 if you have more than 9 photos, or 100 if you have more than 99 photos.

What do you mean by "cataloging"?

What you suggest is good. However, I suggest a Core i7-5820K processor ($390) and a X99 compatible motherboard ($340). This is a nice balance, and gives you options for the future.

P.S. Prices will vary

Thanks to all responders. I knew that this topic was confusing. I understand why even the knowledgeable members sometimes get things "almost" right.

I wasn't able to find any indication that a 430EX II-RT exist. I would guess that you are referring to the 430EX II (no RT), which is optical only. In that case you are correct.


The 430EX II is optical only, I believe that you mean the 430EX III-RT.



Here is a link to the 430EX III-RT brochure (Look under the Overview heading and click on Brochures).
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/flashes/speedlite-430ex-iii-rt

It shows the 430EX III-RT, in radio mode, as either master or slave. In optical mode, it is slave only.

As an aside, the Yongnuo YN660EX RT, in optical mode, is slave only. This is different from the Canon 600EX II-RT, which can be master or slave in either radio or optical mode.

I decided to go first class and purchase one 430EX III-RT and one 600EX II-RT. This is not inexpensive, but I expect them to be high performance, flexible, and trouble free.

Thanks again for all of your help.

I am presently using the built-in flash of my Canon EOS 70D to optically trigger my 430EX-II off camera flash using E-TTL.
This works to a limited degree but I want to move up to a radio triggered off camera flash using E-TTL.

For a off camera slave, I know that I can use either Canon's 600EX-RT, 600EX II-RT, or 430EX-II RT flash.
For a camera attached master, I can use any of these or a Canon ST-E3-RT trigger.

If these were all that I had available, I think that I would go with one 600EX II-RT and one 430EX-II RT flash. Either could be master or slave. This would give me a lot of flexibility and power, with control of lighting ratios.
However that is is fairly expensive.

However, I am having trouble finding or understanding what else is available. For instance, I know that that the Yongnuo 600EX-RT doesn't support the slave E-TTL optical function. This is not clear from their product description.
So far, I have determined that two Yongnuo 600EX-RT flashes, one master and one slave, would do the job.
Also, the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT and YN-E3-RX would work with my existing camera and flash. This would be the least expensive choice.
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Can anyone give me some suggestions or links to any other products that might be suitable.
Also, any comments or other suggestions are welcome.

Do you mean NO problems ?

Even a crashed hard drive may have some recoverable data. It might be worth it to send the drive to a recovery lab, let them evaluate it, and give an estimated cost for recovery. A good lab can disassemble the drive, remove and clean the platters, and install them in a new drive.

Best wishes!!