Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Buying local or from B&H or Adorama
Page <<first <prev 7 of 11 next> last>>
Mar 17, 2019 12:08:36   #
wrangler5 Loc: Missouri
 
Whether you personally owe tax on items ordered from vendors outside your state and shipped to you is a matter of your state's law. Not all states charge "use" tax on all such purchases. MO used to, but nobody paid it and they couldn't enforce it, so the law was changed to make use tax applicable only to items purchased by businesses, AND to consumer items that have to be registered with the state - cars, boats & planes, mostly. MO DOES enforce that tax, aggressively, against businesses. But when I order something from B&H for personal use I do not owe ANY tax to MO under applicable law.

It is also worth keeping in mind a couple statements of tax law principles by perhaps the best judge in the US in the 20th century who did not sit on the Supreme Court, Learned Hand:

Quote:
Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Gregory v. Helvering, 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934)


and

Quote:
Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant.
Commissioner v. Newman, 159 F.2d 848, 851 (2d Cir. 1947) - dissenting opinion

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 12:19:07   #
BebuLamar
 
wrangler5 wrote:
Whether you personally owe tax on items ordered from vendors outside your state and shipped to you is a matter of your state's law. Not all states charge "use" tax on all such purchases. MO used to, but nobody paid it and they couldn't enforce it, so the law was changed to make use tax applicable only to items purchased by businesses, AND to consumer items that have to be registered with the state - cars, boats & planes, mostly. MO DOES enforce that tax, aggressively, against businesses. But when I order something from B&H for personal use I do not owe ANY tax to MO under applicable law.

It is also worth keeping in mind a couple statements of tax law principles by perhaps the best judge in the US in the 20th century who did not sit on the Supreme Court, Learned Hand:
Whether you personally owe tax on items ordered fr... (show quote)


As far as I know there are states that don't charge sales tax or use tax and states that charge sales and use tax. I know of no state that charges sales tax but not use tax.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 12:31:22   #
wrangler5 Loc: Missouri
 
Well, as a practicing MO tax lawyer for the past 45 years I can assure you that while MO does have a use tax, it does not apply to goods that are purchased by individuals for non-business use, except items that must be registered with the state. Perhaps MO is unique in this respect, but I suspect that many states have this rule as a matter of practice if not as a matter of statute, simply from the near-impossibility of efficiently enforcing the law against millions of individual, relatively tiny transactions.

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2019 12:41:44   #
factsbob Loc: London, Ontario
 
Have used B&H many times. You can trust B&H. Always fair and always deliver in a timely manner.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 12:47:21   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
I like to buy local and do so because I can handle the equipment and as for tax. You legally are to pay that the end of the year when you pay your taxes. Also your state need road repairs etc. and will charge you more sales tax if they don't get it.

It is also nice to have a place to see all the equipment and handle it before you buy it. Advise helps too.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 12:54:03   #
Shutterbug57
 
Zario wrote:
Why is it assumed that I would cheat on my taxes?? That's quite a narrow judgment.


Because the info in your OP compared the local store - MSRP + taxes, no goodies to on line stores that were MSRP, various goodie and no taxes for an 8%+ difference in pricing. While you did not say you were looking to avoid that taxes, your assessment made it look that way to reasonable observers. Glad we were wrong.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 13:16:21   #
John Maher Loc: Northern Virginia
 
I like having a good, local, family-owned dealer (District Camera in DC area) even though they also do Internet sales. I would always recommend a quality local dealer when one is available. Unfortunately, most of these are probably near big cities: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, DC, etc.

Having said that, it seems that most people no longer have this option and quality Internet sellers (e.g.B&H, Adorama) are lifesavers.

Without local support, we could all be in that second category.

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2019 13:21:41   #
jaycoffman Loc: San Diego
 
wrangler5 wrote:
Whether you personally owe tax on items ordered from vendors outside your state and shipped to you is a matter of your state's law. Not all states charge "use" tax on all such purchases. MO used to, but nobody paid it and they couldn't enforce it, so the law was changed to make use tax applicable only to items purchased by businesses, AND to consumer items that have to be registered with the state - cars, boats & planes, mostly. MO DOES enforce that tax, aggressively, against businesses. But when I order something from B&H for personal use I do not owe ANY tax to MO under applicable law.

It is also worth keeping in mind a couple statements of tax law principles by perhaps the best judge in the US in the 20th century who did not sit on the Supreme Court, Learned Hand:
Whether you personally owe tax on items ordered fr... (show quote)


That's the trouble with law--it can be misinterpreted. It is the same as the thing going on now with income tax. People are upset because they did not get as big a refund as they expected. The refund means nothing as far as tax liability--it is the actual amount of tax that you pay. You can set the refund any way you want--it's the tax that counts. Same here; there is nothing wrong with setting your affairs to pay the least tax legally allowable. However, the issue here is how the tax is collected. If you buy something that your state requires you to pay some sort of tax on that item then you owe the tax. If the seller collects the tax and sends it to your state that's one way. The other is if the seller does not collect the tax then you must legally pay that tax yourself if your state requires it. Same with income tax refunds and sales tax.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 13:27:38   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Zario wrote:
I've finally decided to buy the Fuji X-T3 w/18-55mm - financial stretch but satisfied with choice. Dilemma is:
Local price = $1699 black body & lens + 8.75% CA sales tax - no extras, buy good people.
Adorama = same price w/ accessories bundle no tax - if I buy B4 April 15
B&H = same price + abbreviated bundle - no tax
I have never dealt with the online retailers and am a little nervous after reading a few negative reviews. Yet many of you seasoned UHHers seem to have good luck buying from online camera retailers.
Comments & Help would not be turned away.
As always many thanks.
I've finally decided to buy the Fuji X-T3 w/18-55m... (show quote)


Avoiding for the moment the sales tax issue, I would recommend either B&H or Adorama for online purchases. They both have good reputations and I have bought from both of them without any problems. However, there is some advantage to keeping local vendors in business. They may function as a source for immediate purchases (without waiting for shipping) and advice.

I don't live in CA, but it is my understanding that sales tax (or use tax) is owed by you if you buy something. If the vendor does not collect it you are still obligated to pay it and the state can collect if they find out. Recent law requires vendors to collect sales tax for online purchases under some circumstances. I suspect that if a vendor does not collect sales tax now, that situation will change in the near future.

Having said that, and having shopped frequently in NH (no sales tax), my accountant advised me at one time that I could pay a "safe haven" amount to cover all purchases for which the sales tax was not paid. That meant I did not have to keep records of what I paid tax on and what I didn't. That was several years ago and the rules may have changed by now.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 13:31:28   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
jaycoffman wrote:
... People are upset because they did not get as big a refund as they expected. The refund means nothing as far as tax liability--it is the actual amount of tax that you pay. You can set the refund any way you want--it's the tax that counts...


You really want to get as small a refund as possible. A refund means you withheld too much tax, in effect giving the government a no-interest loan.

To be sure, that's not as large an issue as it used to be. If you keep that money in the bank, you get something like 0.05% interest if you're lucky. About 1/100 of what it used to be many years ago.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 13:44:42   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
AndyH wrote:
If cheating on your taxes doesn't bother you, go with either of these fine online retailers. It's you, not them, that owes the state sales/use tax. You won't find any problems with either of them, nor with any of the other upstanding retailers like KEH, Hunt's, Cameta…they're all very reputable and easy to deal with.

They're just collecting the tax on behalf of the state, you're the one who owes it. I'm sure you'll find plenty of support here for the position that taxes are evil, you don't morally "owe" it, that the state will never "catch" you, etc. Let your conscience be your guide.

Andy
If cheating on your taxes doesn't bother you, go w... (show quote)



Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2019 13:57:22   #
Zario Loc: sacramento, CA
 
Andy - wish I could say thanks, but your assumptions about me- who you know nothing, absolutely nothing about are insulting.
But we have to remember that what we say is only and exclusively a reflection of the author.
You're judgements about strangers are narrow to say the least. And you don't listen well. I never said anything about skipping out or as you prefer to label me a "cheater". If you were open to really listening you would have heard a question.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 14:16:54   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Zario wrote:
I've finally decided to buy the Fuji X-T3 w/18-55mm - financial stretch but satisfied with choice. Dilemma is:
Local price = $1699 black body & lens + 8.75% CA sales tax - no extras, buy good people.
Adorama = same price w/ accessories bundle no tax - if I buy B4 April 15
B&H = same price + abbreviated bundle - no tax
I have never dealt with the online retailers and am a little nervous after reading a few negative reviews. Yet many of you seasoned UHHers seem to have good luck buying from online camera retailers.
Comments & Help would not be turned away.
As always many thanks.
I've finally decided to buy the Fuji X-T3 w/18-55m... (show quote)


CA does have the tax on B&H purchases.
You are just cheating and lying on your tax forms each year. Criminal behavior on your part.
Guess you can live with cheating, lying and being a crook while others comply with the law.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 14:18:45   #
jaycoffman Loc: San Diego
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
You really want to get as small a refund as possible. A refund means you withheld too much tax, in effect giving the government a no-interest loan.

To be sure, that's not as large an issue as it used to be. If you keep that money in the bank, you get something like 0.05% interest if you're lucky. About 1/100 of what it used to be many years ago.


My point exactly and I am willing to let the government keep my money and get a larger refund when interest is almost nothing. If it ever goes up I'll reevaluate.

Reply
Mar 17, 2019 14:34:00   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
Zario wrote:
I've finally decided to buy the Fuji X-T3 w/18-55mm - financial stretch but satisfied with choice. Dilemma is:
Local price = $1699 black body & lens + 8.75% CA sales tax - no extras, buy good people.
Adorama = same price w/ accessories bundle no tax - if I buy B4 April 15
B&H = same price + abbreviated bundle - no tax
I have never dealt with the online retailers and am a little nervous after reading a few negative reviews. Yet many of you seasoned UHHers seem to have good luck buying from online camera retailers.
Comments & Help would not be turned away.
As always many thanks.
I've finally decided to buy the Fuji X-T3 w/18-55m... (show quote)


Buy local, support your local store and pay the CA tax...you technically owe the tax either way, and you don't want to risk a penalty if your state income tax is audited. I buy from B&H (Blimie and Herman!) usually, but only because I live in NYC.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 7 of 11 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.