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Help with setting lights for shiny material
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Nov 2, 2018 18:26:43   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
Golden Rule wrote:
Strobes have much more power than a single flash. BTW, I tried gold reflectors and was given the perfect shiny gold from the cobwebs but the reflectors did not spread the light evenly in the background. The bottom of the material was still almost black because no light was reaching that part of the pattern.

In reality A modern flash is a strobe Studio flash is a powerful strobe.
Not being able to see your set-up and not being there at the time you actually took the image almost any "solution" to your problem given here is an educated guess.

My studio lighting set up consisted of Alien Bee, B400's B800's and B1600's , I discovered for me it was easier to an even lighting on my background by setting the background lights first, then working on lighting the subject. Much of my work was done using one to three lights sometimes four, very seldom more.
While the Alien Bee's are kind of out of style they are adjustable and work very well for hobby and some commercial work. I also used Paul C Buff's early model radio triggers to insure all units fired (sometimes the built in slaves could not "see" ) the trigger flash.
Learning lighting can be difficult to learn but If I learned almost anyone can, experiment, experiment, experiment draw a diagram and note each change,only make one change at a time.
Have fun keep shooting
Frank

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Nov 2, 2018 19:47:49   #
ronz Loc: Florida
 
Purchase an adjustable ND filter

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Nov 2, 2018 19:50:22   #
Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada
 
ronz wrote:
Purchase an adjustable ND filter


What will the ND filter do?

Reply
 
 
Nov 2, 2018 20:05:56   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
Golden Rule wrote:
The cobwebs are supposed to be a shiny gold. I used two strobe lights and one flash and tried many different positions for the lighting. This is the best I could get but it did not light up the bottom and the background has uneven lighting with no light hitting the bottom material where the cat sits. Two years ago I tried a couple of softboxes that gave me good lighting of the material but too dark for the cat. Any suggestions on where to set the two strobes and if two softboxes are added, where to set them. And this would be to get a good gold color as well as the cat.
I tried setting the strobes high and tilted down on the sides and front. Then I tried both slightly tilted in front. This shot one strobe was almost pointed at me on the camera right and the other was 45 degree angle slightly tilted down on camera left.
The cobwebs are supposed to be a shiny gold. I use... (show quote)

Modeling lights would save you much grief.

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Nov 2, 2018 20:07:32   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
Weddingguy wrote:
What will the ND filter do?

Nothing, of course.

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Nov 2, 2018 22:17:48   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
I frequently photograph metallic products- just about every week- items like jewelry, coins, "chrome" plated appliances, tools, etc. The basic concept to keep in mind is that when you photograph shiny, highly polished metallic surfaces you are actually taking a picture of the light source as it is reflected in the object. You are also depending on the correct angle of incidence and camera position to make certain that the items is well defined and the reflection of the light source is picked up by the camera.

If the ligh source is significantly larger that the subject and well diffused such as a big soft box or a very large white reflective panel the job will be easier.

Here's the important part- If the camera angle and the angle of incense is such that the reflection is properly recorded so as to accurately render the correct color of the object (silver, gold or othere color) the lighing is said to be LIGHT FIELD. If, however, the angles are not well coordinated and the silver or gold object shows up as BLACK or GRAY, the lighting is said to be DARK FIELD. If you look at the shot of the coins that I will post, you will notice that most of the coins show as gold or silver, however, one of them recorded as black. Most of the coins were in the ligh field and the exception was in a dark field- that coin did not "see" the ligh source because of the way it was tilted and therefore changed the angle of reflection. Remember the rule says; the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. If gold subject record as silver or white it is due to overexposure and/or specular reflections that are caused by a light source that is not large or diffused enough.

In your shot- you would need the aforementioned kinda light source and quality to properly and evenly render the metallic threads of the webs. You would need a lower ratio or smoother contrast to compress the dynamic range in order to render detail the black cat. OR- you could light the web as I have suggested and place another more concentrated light source, in behind the web, to light the darker subject- 2 layers of lighting.

This applies to any type of ligh sources- flash, LED, Tungsten- whatever you want to use.

NOW for- Electronic flash nomenclature. Technically speaking a STROBE is a rapidly repeating electronic flash configuration. You see them in stage and disco lighting, atop emergency vehicles, in instrument auto mechanics use for engine timing and in photography the are used for special effects, motion studies, scientific photography and notably for high speed motion studies to diagnose mechanical issues in rapidly moving machinery. True stroboscopic photography entails equipmet that is adjustable to various flash frequencies.

HOWEVER- The term "STROBE" has become common photo-slang for just about any electronic flash unit- such as "portable strobe", "studio strobe" etc. We all use the term. "Speedlight" was a generic term again for most forms of electronic flash based on the relative short flash duration (as compared expendable flash lamps) and their ability to freeze motion when the are the primary light source. Early electronic flash units where powered by very high voltage and relativity low capacitance as compared to modern units therefore, durations of one hundred-thousandth of a seconds were commonplace- speeds capable of recording a bullet in midair or glass shattering. Nowadays we call small, one piece, shoe mounted flash gear "speedlights" and some manufactures use the term to brand there models. "Studio flashes, back in the day, were usually two piece units- a separate power supply wired to a lamp head or multiple lamp heads operated from a single large power pack- theses are still manufactured. Portable versions were sometimes called "strobes" as well. New we call one-piece studio type units "mono-lights"! "Studio strobes" and mono-lights usually have modeling lamps.

It's all etymology*, slang or common usage- Nothing to do with power. A camera mounted portable electronic flash lamp head, connected to a shoulder carried power pack can have more power that a studio unit- depends on the make and model.

*et·y·mol·o·gy
/ˌedəˈmäləjē/Submit
noun
the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.
the origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning.
plural noun: etymologies
synonyms: derivation, word history, development, origin, source
"the etymology of a word may be unknown"

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Nov 2, 2018 22:19:59   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
Stroboscopic image, studio flash and gold and silver items.




(Download)


(Download)

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Nov 3, 2018 10:58:40   #
Golden Rule Loc: Washington State
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I frequently photograph metallic products- just about every week- items like jewelry, coins, "chrome" plated appliances, tools, etc. The basic concept to keep in mind is that when you photograph shiny, highly polished metallic surfaces you are actually taking a picture of the light source as it is reflected in the object. You are also depending on the correct angle of incidence and camera position to make certain that the items is well defined and the reflection of the light source is picked up by the camera.

If the ligh source is significantly larger that the subject and well diffused such as a big soft box or a very large white reflective panel the job will be easier.

Here's the important part- If the camera angle and the angle of incense is such that the reflection is properly recorded so as to accurately render the correct color of the object (silver, gold or othere color) the lighing is said to be LIGHT FIELD. If, however, the angles are not well coordinated and the silver or gold object shows up as BLACK or GRAY, the lighting is said to be DARK FIELD. If you look at the shot of the coins that I will post, you will notice that most of the coins show as gold or silver, however, one of them recorded as black. Most of the coins were in the ligh field and the exception was in a dark field- that coin did not "see" the ligh source because of the way it was tilted and therefore changed the angle of reflection. Remember the rule says; the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. If gold subject record as silver or white it is due to overexposure and/or specular reflections that are caused by a light source that is not large or diffused enough.

Thanks for your reply and examples. This will be a hopefully fun problem to solve. I see you are using a beauty dish? I have one too and will try that as a light source for the cat.
In your shot- you would need the aforementioned kinda light source and quality to properly and evenly render the metallic threads of the webs. You would need a lower ratio or smoother contrast to compress the dynamic range in order to render detail the black cat. OR- you could light the web as I have suggested and place another more concentrated light source, in behind the web, to light the darker subject- 2 layers of lighting.

This applies to any type of ligh sources- flash, LED, Tungsten- whatever you want to use.

NOW for- Electronic flash nomenclature. Technically speaking a STROBE is a rapidly repeating electronic flash configuration. You see them in stage and disco lighting, atop emergency vehicles, in instrument auto mechanics use for engine timing and in photography the are used for special effects, motion studies, scientific photography and notably for high speed motion studies to diagnose mechanical issues in rapidly moving machinery. True stroboscopic photography entails equipmet that is adjustable to various flash frequencies.

HOWEVER- The term "STROBE" has become common photo-slang for just about any electronic flash unit- such as "portable strobe", "studio strobe" etc. We all use the term. "Speedlight" was a generic term again for most forms of electronic flash based on the relative short flash duration (as compared expendable flash lamps) and their ability to freeze motion when the are the primary light source. Early electronic flash units where powered by very high voltage and relativity low capacitance as compared to modern units therefore, durations of one hundred-thousandth of a seconds were commonplace- speeds capable of recording a bullet in midair or glass shattering. Nowadays we call small, one piece, shoe mounted flash gear "speedlights" and some manufactures use the term to brand there models. "Studio flashes, back in the day, were usually two piece units- a separate power supply wired to a lamp head or multiple lamp heads operated from a single large power pack- theses are still manufactured. Portable versions were sometimes called "strobes" as well. New we call one-piece studio type units "mono-lights"! "Studio strobes" and mono-lights usually have modeling lamps.

It's all etymology*, slang or common usage- Nothing to do with power. A camera mounted portable electronic flash lamp head, connected to a shoulder carried power pack can have more power that a studio unit- depends on the make and model.

*et·y·mol·o·gy
/ˌedəˈmäləjē/Submit
noun
the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.
the origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning.
plural noun: etymologies
synonyms: derivation, word history, development, origin, source
"the etymology of a word may be unknown"
I frequently photograph metallic products- just ab... (show quote)

Thanks for your reply and examples. This will be a hopefully fun problem to solve. I see you are using a beauty dish? I have one too and will try that as a light source for the cat.

Reply
Nov 7, 2018 00:16:47   #
Designdweeb Loc: Metro NYC & East Stroudsburg, PA
 
Golden Rule wrote:
Strobes have much more power than a single flash. BTW, I tried gold reflectors and was given the perfect shiny gold from the cobwebs but the reflectors did not spread the light evenly in the background. The bottom of the material was still almost black because no light was reaching that part of the pattern.

Can you separate the table and the background far enough so the background gets even light from the banks and doesn’t get a reflection from the black table?

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Nov 7, 2018 09:56:03   #
Golden Rule Loc: Washington State
 
Designdweeb wrote:
Can you separate the table and the background far enough so the background gets even light from the banks and doesn’t get a reflection from the black table?


Yes, a fair amount of space separation. I think I will have time this weekend to play with the same scene setup just for fun.

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