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Choctaw monument
Oct 11, 2018 11:36:01 #
StanMac wrote:
[. . . .we cannot use today’s standards to judge historical figures.]
Why not? Is morality fluid in its definition and dependent on how we or our leaders define it for our purposes at the time? I think not.
Stan
Why not? Is morality fluid in its definition and dependent on how we or our leaders define it for our purposes at the time? I think not.
Stan
Because it is the height of arrogance to destroy something historical based on "today's standards". Such standards are subjective, culturally oriented and constantly evolving.
Nobody expects that all historical individuals or societies were perfect. A monument does not make that claim.
The Taliban destroyed monuments and artifacts in Afghanistan and ISIS destroyed the the heritage of Palmyra base on their standards. Are we no better than that?
Oct 11, 2018 11:40:07 #
Oct 11, 2018 11:50:49 #
WestTnGuy wrote:
You don’t change history by removing it and nothing is all bad or all good. Certainly the forced removal was one of Jackson’s worst periods ( at least by today’s standards) but remember his defense of New Orleans to end the War of 1812. The more appropriate thing is to honor those Native Americans who suffered. Our county is trying in our small way by putting up “Trail of Tears” signs on the route that was taken through our county.
Uhh due to the warp speed of communication the last battle of the war of 1812/13 was fought right after the signing of the peace treaty.
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Oct 11, 2018 11:55:21 #
Oct 11, 2018 12:08:56 #
selmslie wrote:
Because it is the height of arrogance to destroy something historical based on "today's standards". Such standards are subjective, culturally oriented and constantly evolving.
Nobody expects that all historical individuals or societies were perfect. A monument does not make that claim.
The Taliban to destroyed monuments and artifacts in Afghanistan and ISIS destroyed the the heritage of Palmyra base on their standards. Are we no better than that?
Nobody expects that all historical individuals or societies were perfect. A monument does not make that claim.
The Taliban to destroyed monuments and artifacts in Afghanistan and ISIS destroyed the the heritage of Palmyra base on their standards. Are we no better than that?
You do misrepresent StanMac's intent, however.
Standards were the last thing in the minds of the Taliban and the Isis. Both groups had, and have, no standards. The destruction was done simply for the effect. There is the field of Social Anthropology which carries many examples to view and comprehend. But to say "standards" is denying the realities.
But we digress in regards to this thread, which depicts a standard that existed, and is still extant in the modern world, which needs to recognize events from such standards.
Oct 11, 2018 12:29:06 #
Stephan G wrote:
... Standards were the last thing in the minds of the Taliban and the Isis. Both groups had, and have, no standards. ...
You may disagree with their standards but that does not mean that they were not used as an excuse for the destruction.
Contemporary cultural standards for behavior in China, North Korea, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, etc., are different from ours. They may change but they are still their standards.
So far as the society in existence during the time of the Trail of Tears", it was different from ours today. We were still arguing about slavery back then.
Oct 11, 2018 12:36:49 #
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Oct 11, 2018 14:50:59 #
Thanks for sharing this heart-rending story of the Choctaw Nation and the suffering Irish people. Beautifull monument that!
Oct 11, 2018 15:43:43 #
Oct 11, 2018 16:45:09 #
Oct 11, 2018 17:10:12 #
Oct 11, 2018 18:53:53 #
The " Trail of Tears " began in the town in which I live in Alabama... The First Nation's People were herded like goats to Oklahoma and relocated; many of our rewritten history books portray this as the Red man GIVING the land to the White man. Not So... just another example of history being rewritten. Check your children's textbooks folks... lots of inconsistencies.
Oct 11, 2018 19:04:17 #
MrBob wrote:
The " Trail of Tears " began in the town in which I live in Alabama... The First Nation's People were herded like goats to Oklahoma and relocated; many of our rewritten history books portray this as the Red man GIVING the land to the White man. Not So... just another example of history being rewritten. Check your children's textbooks folks... lots of inconsistencies.
There are some that are not aware that there were several Trails of Tears.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
Oct 11, 2018 19:47:47 #
FreddB
Loc: PA - Delaware County
Mike Little wrote:
I wish I new where the monument was so I could pay my respects an take a photograph of it.
Midleton, County Cork
Oct 12, 2018 00:17:57 #
tommy2 wrote:
Andrew Jackson's statues should be removed along with the confederate's...
You mean Andrew Jackson, the founder of the Democrat Party? That Andrew Jackson? I have to say, I visited his home in Tennessee a few years ago. I found the house and the grounds to be very beautiful. Then the tour took us out back, behind the house, where the slave quarters were. It left me with a sinking feeling in my gut. Our leaders from long ago were men of their times. They lived their lives in accordance with the standards and the mores of their times. It's wrong to judge them by standards that have changed so much over the last 200 yeares. Jackson did a lot good in opening the west to exploration and exploitation. He did a lot of damage as an "Indian Fighter". I think he felt a lot of guilt over what he did to the point that he took in an orphaned Indian child and raised him as a son.
How are future generations to know about our past if we erase it all from memory? What our nation did to the Indians was tragic but it was part of our history. We shouldn't forget what happened lest it happen again to some other group we envision as our lessers.
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