Should another photographer ask before taking a photo of my kids? (Page 4): A question has come into my mind about the privacy issue versus commercial use. We found someone...

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Should another photographer ask before taking a photo of my kids?

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Oct 30, 2011 11:46:57 #

cancatphoto

A question has come into my mind about the privacy issue versus commercial use.
We found someone photographing our home. They claimed that it is for 'home price comparisons'. This has happened to us now in three different homes.
My question....would this not fall under commercial photography?
I also do barn photography. If I decide to do anything with them in a commercial way, will I need release forms?

Oct 30, 2011 11:58:30 #

Rip Tragle Loc: Estes Park, CO

Sometimes its not a question of legal or your rights but one
of not getting your face and camera smashed by an angry
BIG parent. I always carry a camera and during a pit stop on the highway there was a really cute kid and a good picture. I just
shot a couple thinking nothing of it. As I was getting back into my truck two big guys come out of the store one very angry the
parent and the store manager. He demanded to know what I took those pictures for. so I was polite and told him I am a photographer and did so without thinking as it was a good
picture. I solved a bad situation by showing the parent the two
pictures I took. and deleting them on the spot. I apologized
and cooled the situation down.. and again headed west with by body and gear intact.

Oct 30, 2011 12:15:39 #

JKF159 Loc: Arkansas

I apologized
and cooled the situation down.. and again headed west with by body and gear intact.[/quote]

"Discretion is the better part of valour" W. Shakespeare

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Oct 30, 2011 12:16:11 #

keithsmom Loc: Paradise found

I concur with all your points from professional as well as legal standpoints. Common Courtesy should always be shown!
Had I been the photographer in question, I would have snapped the pics,then went to the parent, explained WHY i took the pics..
then offer to share by obtaining contact info/model release.
or if my share offer was declined..
sadly the pics would be deleted then an there in the parent's presence..
I, for one, always ask whenever possible and graciously offer a set of the prints..
Have made some wonderful new friends/potential clients this way.
thanks again for sharing your excellent advice and viewpoints!
Loui♥

Oct 30, 2011 12:17:00 #

LarryD Loc: Mojave Desert

George H wrote:

quote=LarryD There are no laws that prohibit &quo... (show quote)

I was not trying to sound harsh to the mother, only that the photographer had every right to take a photograph - whether her child and wagon were primary or part of the scene or not, and that any confrontation with that photographer could constitute harrassment on her part - regardless of her feelings in the matter. I also agree that common courtesy would have dictated that the photographer acknowledge the mother and his photo of her child (not all photographers are courteous).. The commercial litmus test is if the photographer derives income from an individuals image alone (which is their personal property) and not incidental to the overall photograph. A child, or anybody else, pulling a wagon of photography equipment along a crowded beach would likely not meet that test and be viewed as legitimate public representation of events..

I will be in Panama next week shooting the people, culture, events and architecture. Unless I hire or place individuals in the scene, I will not seek model releases, but a smile and "Thank You" most often bring a smile and head nod. This is the same scenario as presented in the original post..

Oct 30, 2011 12:20:41 #

JKF159 Loc: Arkansas

cancatphoto wrote:

The price comparisons that you mentioned were probably for an appraisal. Usually three other recently sold similar properties in the area are used to arrive at an appraisal. If this was the case I wouldnt think that the photo itself would be considered commercial. They would not be selling the photo. Just an idea.

Oct 30, 2011 12:22:38 #

jolly1

freebird76 wrote:

Yes this is correct. What I remember from my Media Law class in college is that when you are in a public place, especially in a crowd, a photographer can shoot into a crowd without your permission and use the pic anyway he wants, in any public place such as at a county fair or beach as mentioned.
This is how the "paparazzi" get away with their celebrity pics... this law DOES NOT apply to public persons..so if you are a celeb or say the mayor's wife, you have no immunity. They can shoot any pics and use however.
BUT>>> if you are not a public figure, and he / she points his camera into the crowd and zooms in on your kids, and the faces are easily recognizable, he cannot have that pic published in any manner whatsoever without getting a signed model release.
The main point being is what the photo will be used for. A loose idea for a painting? Then it is fine. If the mom saw me taking pics of her kids, I personally show mom the pic, tell her why I took it, and ask if she minds if I use if for a painting, and assure her that her kids will not be recognizable)

But, publish on the web, in a newspaper, magazine, etc.. then that zoomed in pic is illegal if it has recognizable faces in it. Main point being, public or private place, and how recognizable are the faces...a side view where the kids are looking away from the camera? Law does not apply here.
That is what the law says...(at lease it was when I was in college 15 yrs ago, it is probably more stringent now)...
but when possible, if the moment won't be lost, we should always use caution and ask first..they may be flattered and recreate the scene for you, but the results are usually not the same vs. taking a candid shot when the subject is unaware.
I have taken pics of kids in situations similar to yours first...before asking...as it was a moment that, had I gone over, interrupted the scene and asked, that moment would've been lost. So I shoot the pic, and try to not be obviously shooting right at them in particular.
If I take the pic, and the kids faces are recognizable, and I am shooting for a newspaper, I then promptly go to the parents, show them the pic in my viewfinder, tell them my intentions, and ask.
If they say no, I delete the all pics right there in front of them to let them know they are safe, I will not use the pic in any way, thank you, have a nice day, sorry to have offended you. However, if I want to use the pic for an idea for a painting and they didn't see me shooting, I walk away. They were in public, and the pics are not going to be used in any public manner, and I am confident they didn't see me shooting. I am protected by law to do so.
And never ever take pics of even your best friend's baby being changed or bathed, regardless the age... this could land you in a heap of trouble! There was a Lifetime movie made regarding a TRUE story of a lady who innocently took pics of her best friend's baby in the bathtub, not showing private parts, and I don't remember why but she got in trouble with the law, even tho the mom didn't mind. Hope this helps...

Yes this is correct. What I remember from my Media... (show quote)

Well, follow the rules as you believe them, and I can assure you that you will never become a successful professional photographer. But then as an amateur you won't need to worry about getting either permission or model releases for you will need neither.

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Oct 30, 2011 12:25:03 #

Rip Tragle Loc: Estes Park, CO

In my situation above. there was no parent around to
ask. but he obviously saw me take the photos from
wherever he was. If they were side to side I would have asked.

Oct 30, 2011 12:27:23 #

CocoaRoger Loc: Cocoa Florida

Yes he should ask. It's one thing to be taking photos at a park or something and still just doing that I feel self conscious of the fact that although I'm taking pictures of a lake or beach, that people are in them. But to deliberately take photos of anyone, you should ask permission. It's not something I would get steamed about but if it were me I would appreciate the courtesy first.

Oct 30, 2011 12:35:57 #

rbmartiniv Loc: Nacogdoches, TX

Legal or not, I don't think it matters. In this day and age, common sense should tell you not to photograph a child without parental permission, unless PERHAPS, the child just happens to be incidental to the photograph. I believe it would then depend upon you using sound judgement. Maybe you should ask yourself, "Am I taking a photo of the child or of something else that the child may just happen to be near or part of the scene? I don't think there is a clear cut answer. I would not want to take any photo would make any adult/parent uncomfortable. There are just too many perverts out there today.

Oct 30, 2011 12:52:04 #

TomballLegend Loc: Tomball, Texas

Some of the best friends, we have made, over the years was when I asked, "may I include your children?" How ever, I have an aversion to people, especially some one who I don't know nor will ever see again, forcing their kids into the activity".
By the same token, what right do I have to stealing their "presence" to enlighten my activity---practice---or improvement?
It's also a good idea to enlighten the parents since you might come off being considered "Lester the Mollester"...CTP

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Oct 30, 2011 12:53:52 #

jepoplin Loc: Steamboat Springs, CO

When it comes to people in general, I (personally) always ask. But when it comes to kids, in this day and age, YES! The photographer's intentions may have been innocent, but you just never know. Many cameras these days record GPS in their metadata. So if that picture is posted to the internet, someone tech savy can find the location it was taken.

Oct 30, 2011 12:56:29 #

JerrysPhotos Loc: Arkansas

I think that anytime a person wants to take photos of someone else, they should ask for permission just as a matter of courtesy... if the photo is of an adult then the adult should be asked for permission. If the photo is of a minor, then the minors guardian should be asked. This is only if the photo is directed directly toward that person.... If you are amoung a group of people on the street or in a park then I don't think any permission is necessary... It sound like this falls under the first situation.... He should have asked for permission.......

Oct 30, 2011 13:03:29 #

Rip Tragle Loc: Estes Park, CO

I generally get good results approaching an interesting
subject and telling them I am testing some new gear and
asking if they would mind being the model. and I tell
them I will show them what I have taken and they can tell
me what they think. This works like a charm and the subject
enjoys being involved with the process.
So, things like this become possible by just being out in public:

Oct 30, 2011 13:11:09 #

ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

Rip Tragle wrote:

Sometimes its not a question of legal or your rig... (show quote)

It's always good to check to see if the family is in the witness protection program or possibly on-the-lamb before photographing kids.

:lol:

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