Asked by old college friend to shoot her Wedding...
yorkiebyte wrote:
Totally different scenarios there. She charges for her work (photography) as she should.
Maybe she could "volunteer" to cut the cake, or take care of the bride's dog for a couple of days.
I'm no longer shooting Pro, but no way in H would I shoot anything for free if asked. Church, shelter or what have you. I may/do volunteer for things, but not my profession.
So I take it you disapprove of Doctors without Borders, dentists who volunteer their time at homeless shelters, accountants who keep the books for charitable organizations, lawyers who take on pro bono cases, musicians who do free concerts for causes ...
Lovelight wrote:
Hi. First time posting!
I'm a 'sometimes' Pro Photographer with 4 successful Weddings under my belt over the last 9 years and 1 as a second shooter. I have a 2:1 degree in Fine Art Photography too.
I say 'sometimes' as I've been a stay at home Mum for 4 years and haven't been taking on any Wedding work. I don't see how anyone does! I'm honestly baffled by the concept of (out of the house) working when you have a small child... if and when I get a moment's chance to string a thought together to do so, before being interrupted by my toddler!
Anyway this weekend my old college friend messaged me to invite me to her wedding and to ask if she could afford me to shoot it. She had a plan B of a hobbiest friend of her other half if not.
It was strange to be back in the nerve-wracking position of revisiting my pricing 4 years on but I got back into it and am currently insured for public liability only, with my main Nikon D700 body broken since last August, which needs either a new mirror or shutter and I'm estimating if it can be fixed that I'll be looking at £500 for that. Otherwise I have my Nikon D300 and little Olympus XZ1 with off camera flash for candid shooting.
So the last wedding I did, I charged £800 for a digital on personalised USB stick package. And 4 years on I figured £900 was reasonable, considering I need to travel to another city and stay the night, plus fuel and a reckie trip before, hire of a couple of lenses, possibly a body too.
Anyway, I put the figure to my friend but she said she'd have to decline as the budget is too tight and she's prioritizing the clothes and a party feel plus a short honeymoon after. (She has two kids 8 and 1). She said she'll just get her hobbiest friend to try their best and if she just gets one great shot of the four of them she'll be happy. [Eyeroll]
On Facebook I've already seen she's ordered a fairly expensive dress from a lovely bridal shop.
I tried to advise her of the priority I felt photography should take in her budget and that I'd seen many mediocre albums of friends before.
I even suggested my favourite female photographer in my area, who shot a friend's Wedding but who is also 'in essence' my dream local competitor. (She's an active pro with a hundred Weddings under her belt, so out of my league professionally.) She charges £1100 for a digital package locally.
I let her know of the problems a November Wedding could encompass re: poor light and blurry indoor photos but none of this is swaying her.
I just feel awful because I feel it's a disaster waiting to happen and that shell regret it in future years and almost just want to do the gig to make sure she gets some great shots, even if just for a shorter time frame (main shots) but feel this is selling myself short, as I'll still put the same amount of stress and effort into it and get the insurance, plus hire lenses etc.
For another set of friends locally before my £800 gig, I charged £550 but I don't even think she'd pay that and I'd find it hard to make it worth my while at all with all my costs. I've no other Wedding booked till a possible friend's next December, so insurance alone every month will be £20 to maintain professional indemnity cover.
So, just looking for opinions.
In case it isn't obvious, should I just keep out of it now and stick with being a guest, or take it on for much less?
I am a bit pissed that the other vendors are getting paid but she's looking for the photography to be the bit that can be done on the cheap!
Hi. First time posting! br br I'm a 'sometimes' P... (
show quote)
Is she a close friend? Would you have been invited to the wedding if she didn't know that you are a photographer? Would you make the trip at your own expense if you weren't asked to take photos? If no, no and no, then stay home. If yes, yes and yes, then go to the wedding, take a camera with you, and don't think about money. That's my opinion.
bkyser
Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
yorkiebyte wrote:
WELL said ... and true!
I had a wedding photographer (Charles ...something, this was in the early 80's) giving a seminar tell us first thing: If you want to book more weddings, double your PRICE LIST charges! I thought that was nuts! But I went home and did just that. I booked twice as many weddings at the highest package wedding I had that year! The great wedding photographer Monte Zucker said pretty much the same thing at one of his seminars by saying sell to the higher class money makers....and if you have not changed you pricing in 2 years, up your prices!
WELL said ... and true! br I had a wedding photog... (
show quote)
I had the privilege of meeting Monte Zucker, and also took a few of his seminars. He was amazing behind the camera, but also a very astute business person.
Take your small camera...shoot a bunch of candid shots...edit them....and give her the card.
yorkiebyte
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ/Bandon by the Sea, OR
TMcL wrote:
So I take it you disapprove of Doctors without Borders, dentists who volunteer their time at homeless shelters, accountants who keep the books for charitable organizations, lawyers who take on pro bono cases, musicians who do free concerts for causes ...
I'm sorry. .. I think I got off topic here...I apologize. Volunteering is not the topic.
If you want to go to the wedding and it will cost you for travel/accommodation, etc., plus you'll be expected to buy a wedding gift, why not offer a partial rate reduction in lieu of the gift? If the bride really is a close friend, I would certainly not ask for the going rate - that's what friends are for.
As to your need to buy a new body and rent lenses, that's a general photography business issue and not directly related to this particular job. Obviously you have to set your rate based on keeping up with equipment needs, but you can't say that you have to charge a certain amount because you need to shop for new stuff. That cost must be spread over several paid photo shoots.
loosecanon wrote:
Be a guest and actually have a nice time.
jerryc41 wrote:
My advice is this: Don't give advice. If someone asks your opinion, do a lot of thinking, and then give a good opinion - not necessarily an honest opinion. Very few people like to be told what to do, and they often ask someone for an opinion only to confirm what they already believe.
As I have read here many times, people like to save money on the wedding photographer. All the other expenses are part of The Show, but the photos come weeks later, and few people see them. At my own wedding over fifty years ago, our friends and relatives took pictures, and they were great.
You made your pitch, she declined your offer, so move on and enjoy the wedding.
My advice is this: Don't give advice. If someone... (
show quote)
JerryC41 is SO correct. People prioritize their expenditures. Asking for pro (or nearly so) work for free (or nearly so) reflects on the couple and NOT on you or their opinion of you. It reflects on their opinion and priority of photography. Everyone isn't the same. If she was a Cinderella type, she would have had the entire fairy tale White Gown affair years ago.
Oh gee, today's my 52nd Anniversary. I think I'll go look at the loose leaf Album of Black and White 8x10's shot with a Graflex! She looks even MORE beautiful today. Just a hint about what's important.
C
So she has her own business.
Does she do work for friends gratis?
Just go as a guest and have fun.
When it comes to friendship, money matters, borrowing, and things of this nature should be avoided. Enjoy the friendship and wedding and be stress free.
Lovelight wrote:
Hi. First time posting!
I'm a 'sometimes' Pro Photographer with 4 successful Weddings under my belt over the last 9 years and 1 as a second shooter. I have a 2:1 degree in Fine Art Photography too.
I say 'sometimes' as I've been a stay at home Mum for 4 years and haven't been taking on any Wedding work. I don't see how anyone does! I'm honestly baffled by the concept of (out of the house) working when you have a small child... if and when I get a moment's chance to string a thought together to do so, before being interrupted by my toddler!
Anyway this weekend my old college friend messaged me to invite me to her wedding and to ask if she could afford me to shoot it. She had a plan B of a hobbiest friend of her other half if not.
It was strange to be back in the nerve-wracking position of revisiting my pricing 4 years on but I got back into it and am currently insured for public liability only, with my main Nikon D700 body broken since last August, which needs either a new mirror or shutter and I'm estimating if it can be fixed that I'll be looking at £500 for that. Otherwise I have my Nikon D300 and little Olympus XZ1 with off camera flash for candid shooting.
So the last wedding I did, I charged £800 for a digital on personalised USB stick package. And 4 years on I figured £900 was reasonable, considering I need to travel to another city and stay the night, plus fuel and a reckie trip before, hire of a couple of lenses, possibly a body too.
Anyway, I put the figure to my friend but she said she'd have to decline as the budget is too tight and she's prioritizing the clothes and a party feel plus a short honeymoon after. (She has two kids 8 and 1). She said she'll just get her hobbiest friend to try their best and if she just gets one great shot of the four of them she'll be happy. [Eyeroll]
On Facebook I've already seen she's ordered a fairly expensive dress from a lovely bridal shop.
I tried to advise her of the priority I felt photography should take in her budget and that I'd seen many mediocre albums of friends before.
I even suggested my favourite female photographer in my area, who shot a friend's Wedding but who is also 'in essence' my dream local competitor. (She's an active pro with a hundred Weddings under her belt, so out of my league professionally.) She charges £1100 for a digital package locally.
I let her know of the problems a November Wedding could encompass re: poor light and blurry indoor photos but none of this is swaying her.
I just feel awful because I feel it's a disaster waiting to happen and that shell regret it in future years and almost just want to do the gig to make sure she gets some great shots, even if just for a shorter time frame (main shots) but feel this is selling myself short, as I'll still put the same amount of stress and effort into it and get the insurance, plus hire lenses etc.
For another set of friends locally before my £800 gig, I charged £550 but I don't even think she'd pay that and I'd find it hard to make it worth my while at all with all my costs. I've no other Wedding booked till a possible friend's next December, so insurance alone every month will be £20 to maintain professional indemnity cover.
So, just looking for opinions.
In case it isn't obvious, should I just keep out of it now and stick with being a guest, or take it on for much less?
I am a bit pissed that the other vendors are getting paid but she's looking for the photography to be the bit that can be done on the cheap!
Hi. First time posting! br br I'm a 'sometimes' P... (
show quote)
I wouldn't do it. And if it comes to it, stay home. Sounds like you are getting used. All too common with friends. Seems from what I see, not that I'm looking but the going rate for a Wedding shoot and packaged album and prints is
at least in the $1,000 to $2,000 range. Stay home Mom's should get some sort of credit or financial benefit for it.
Not to be rude, but how does 4 assignments at anything in 9 years make anyone a professional at anything? Professional means you make a living at it or at least get paid regularly. Of course skill and artistic talent might not even relate to being a fee charging "professional". Many hobbyists are fantastic artists. You may be an artist. The D700 would be OK if you could use it, but it does sound like it is time for an upgrade. A D750 or D810 would get the job done. Note, many wedding photographers do use digital medium format cameras.
For me photography is a serious hobby and I have a pretty nice "car's worth" of equipment including, several film and digital 35mm and 4x5" film cameras, and idle darkroom equipment. I have a BA degree in Biology and a teaching credential, but since I am not working or teaching am I a professional biologist? Nope!
Lovelight wrote:
Hi. First time posting!
I'm a 'sometimes' Pro Photographer with 4 successful Weddings under my belt over the last 9 years and 1 as a second shooter. I have a 2:1 degree in Fine Art Photography too.
I say 'sometimes' as I've been a stay at home Mum for 4 years and haven't been taking on any Wedding work. I don't see how anyone does! I'm honestly baffled by the concept of (out of the house) working when you have a small child... if and when I get a moment's chance to string a thought together to do so, before being interrupted by my toddler!
Anyway this weekend my old college friend messaged me to invite me to her wedding and to ask if she could afford me to shoot it. She had a plan B of a hobbiest friend of her other half if not.
It was strange to be back in the nerve-wracking position of revisiting my pricing 4 years on but I got back into it and am currently insured for public liability only, with my main Nikon D700 body broken since last August, which needs either a new mirror or shutter and I'm estimating if it can be fixed that I'll be looking at £500 for that. Otherwise I have my Nikon D300 and little Olympus XZ1 with off camera flash for candid shooting.
So the last wedding I did, I charged £800 for a digital on personalised USB stick package. And 4 years on I figured £900 was reasonable, considering I need to travel to another city and stay the night, plus fuel and a reckie trip before, hire of a couple of lenses, possibly a body too.
Anyway, I put the figure to my friend but she said she'd have to decline as the budget is too tight and she's prioritizing the clothes and a party feel plus a short honeymoon after. (She has two kids 8 and 1). She said she'll just get her hobbiest friend to try their best and if she just gets one great shot of the four of them she'll be happy. [Eyeroll]
On Facebook I've already seen she's ordered a fairly expensive dress from a lovely bridal shop.
I tried to advise her of the priority I felt photography should take in her budget and that I'd seen many mediocre albums of friends before.
I even suggested my favourite female photographer in my area, who shot a friend's Wedding but who is also 'in essence' my dream local competitor. (She's an active pro with a hundred Weddings under her belt, so out of my league professionally.) She charges £1100 for a digital package locally.
I let her know of the problems a November Wedding could encompass re: poor light and blurry indoor photos but none of this is swaying her.
I just feel awful because I feel it's a disaster waiting to happen and that shell regret it in future years and almost just want to do the gig to make sure she gets some great shots, even if just for a shorter time frame (main shots) but feel this is selling myself short, as I'll still put the same amount of stress and effort into it and get the insurance, plus hire lenses etc.
For another set of friends locally before my £800 gig, I charged £550 but I don't even think she'd pay that and I'd find it hard to make it worth my while at all with all my costs. I've no other Wedding booked till a possible friend's next December, so insurance alone every month will be £20 to maintain professional indemnity cover.
So, just looking for opinions.
In case it isn't obvious, should I just keep out of it now and stick with being a guest, or take it on for much less?
I am a bit pissed that the other vendors are getting paid but she's looking for the photography to be the bit that can be done on the cheap!
Hi. First time posting! br br I'm a 'sometimes' P... (
show quote)
I agree with loosecanon go as a guest. If they do not value your work then don't do it with malice. Just politely turn them down. Your fee is your fee same as any other vendor.
Lovelight wrote:
Hi. First time posting!
I'm a 'sometimes' Pro Photographer with 4 successful Weddings under my belt over the last 9 years and 1 as a second shooter. I have a 2:1 degree in Fine Art Photography too.
I say 'sometimes' as I've been a stay at home Mum for 4 years and haven't been taking on any Wedding work. I don't see how anyone does! I'm honestly baffled by the concept of (out of the house) working when you have a small child... if and when I get a moment's chance to string a thought together to do so, before being interrupted by my toddler!
Anyway this weekend my old college friend messaged me to invite me to her wedding and to ask if she could afford me to shoot it. She had a plan B of a hobbiest friend of her other half if not.
It was strange to be back in the nerve-wracking position of revisiting my pricing 4 years on but I got back into it and am currently insured for public liability only, with my main Nikon D700 body broken since last August, which needs either a new mirror or shutter and I'm estimating if it can be fixed that I'll be looking at £500 for that. Otherwise I have my Nikon D300 and little Olympus XZ1 with off camera flash for candid shooting.
So the last wedding I did, I charged £800 for a digital on personalised USB stick package. And 4 years on I figured £900 was reasonable, considering I need to travel to another city and stay the night, plus fuel and a reckie trip before, hire of a couple of lenses, possibly a body too.
Anyway, I put the figure to my friend but she said she'd have to decline as the budget is too tight and she's prioritizing the clothes and a party feel plus a short honeymoon after. (She has two kids 8 and 1). She said she'll just get her hobbiest friend to try their best and if she just gets one great shot of the four of them she'll be happy. [Eyeroll]
On Facebook I've already seen she's ordered a fairly expensive dress from a lovely bridal shop.
I tried to advise her of the priority I felt photography should take in her budget and that I'd seen many mediocre albums of friends before.
I even suggested my favourite female photographer in my area, who shot a friend's Wedding but who is also 'in essence' my dream local competitor. (She's an active pro with a hundred Weddings under her belt, so out of my league professionally.) She charges £1100 for a digital package locally.
I let her know of the problems a November Wedding could encompass re: poor light and blurry indoor photos but none of this is swaying her.
I just feel awful because I feel it's a disaster waiting to happen and that shell regret it in future years and almost just want to do the gig to make sure she gets some great shots, even if just for a shorter time frame (main shots) but feel this is selling myself short, as I'll still put the same amount of stress and effort into it and get the insurance, plus hire lenses etc.
For another set of friends locally before my £800 gig, I charged £550 but I don't even think she'd pay that and I'd find it hard to make it worth my while at all with all my costs. I've no other Wedding booked till a possible friend's next December, so insurance alone every month will be £20 to maintain professional indemnity cover.
So, just looking for opinions.
In case it isn't obvious, should I just keep out of it now and stick with being a guest, or take it on for much less?
I am a bit pissed that the other vendors are getting paid but she's looking for the photography to be the bit that can be done on the cheap!
Hi. First time posting! br br I'm a 'sometimes' P... (
show quote)
Let me take a contrary position.
You aren't a pro. You shot 4 weddings and that was at least 4 years ago.
You have a friend getting married. What better way to be totally involved in the wedding? You get to hang with every one, have fun, eat, drink, shoot.
You need camera gear. Tell her that. See how much she can afford to help get you geared up.
If you want to go back to shooting for money, well this one will give you practice and an update to your portfolio.
It makes a very nice wedding present. Especially if you stamp your name/watermark on all of the pictures.
Personally, I don't charge friends or charities for photography.
Run. Do not walk. Take photos for clients who pay scale and who have no emotional value for you. You will never be able to fix a relationship that goes sideways because they are not happy with your end product or they feel they didn't get the most bang for their buck. I know first hand.
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