newbie (Page 2): This is sort of like going to the art store and asking what brushes to buy for painting portraits and expecting the clerk to teach me how to become an artist. You have...

BlueMorel Loc: Southwest Michigan

This is sort of like going to the art store and asking what brushes to buy for painting portraits and expecting the clerk to teach me how to become an artist. You have the tools, now come the courses, and practice, practice, practice. This forum will be valuable to you as you learn more, and there are so many other online resources nowadays, from basic classes to sophisticated instructions on different types of photography. Dontcha just love the Internet!

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Guyserman wrote:

If the dealer doesn't understand that customer satisfaction has value he is missing the boat (and repeat business.)

That's not the point. Looking after your customer is one thing, training and educating them is another.

If the store makes a marketing decision to offer a free course, then that is a business decision, and it costs money.

As a customer, to expect free 'stuff' is unreasonable, and suggests an attitude of entitlement.

huh huh

YouTube. There should be dozens of videos, ranging from simple to detailed.

Nikon1201

You should have been given the time while trying to choose say between a Nikon ,Canon or Sony but not much more. Even after you take the class you will still be very perplexed. It takes months to master your camera and hours on Utube especially if this is your first digital slow down because it will take time.

kennmurrah

mamaqueue wrote:

I just dropped a grand on my Olympus.

You don't say what camera you bought but from the price, I'm guessing the OMD EM5ii. Those are pretty complex. Don't get discouraged.

Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na5D0VFI1AQ for free, or creativelive.com has good video training to teach you the fundamentals of the camera.

The manual, to put politely, sucks. Better to study Mastering the Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II by Darrell Young. I've spent many hours with this book in one hand and the camera in the other.

And as others here have pointed out, there's still a lot to learn about photography and lighting and exposure and composition and .... you get the idea. You have an adventure ahead of you, but it's a fun one and a worthwhile one.

As you've already discovered, uglyhedgehog.com is an awesome source. You'll have to ignore the fighting and bickering and just soak in the knowledge. Some of the snarkiest members are also the most knowledgeable ones so you'll tune out the drama and just learn.

Good luck.

FreddB Loc: PA - Delaware County

Peterff wrote:

Why??? Do you feel entitled?

Well, I DID assume by basics he meant for this particular camera. Every new model has controls moved around to new locations or it wouldn't be "new and improved".
As far as feeling "entitled", if you're referring to the new definition - expecting something you've never worked or paid for - absolutely not. However, I AM entitled to get what I paid for, including SOME customer service. Could be that's one of the reasons there are so damn few b&m stores left.

FreddB Loc: PA - Delaware County

mwsilvers wrote:

Define get started? The OP feels ten minutes is not sufficient. So how much time is? 30 minutes? 1 hour? Its a business. It they give away their time like that unprofitably, they won't stay in it very long.

When did minimal customer service become unprofitable? Basic economics of sales; it's cheaper to keep an old customer (who just might refer some new ones) than to drum up new business. Word of mouth advertising still works.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

FreddB wrote:

When did minimal customer service become unprofitable? Basic economics of sales; it's cheaper to keep an old customer (who just might refer some new ones) than to drum up new business. Word of mouth advertising still works.

It's about the right level of customer service. Customer service is not free, it is a cost to the business and needs to be factored in to the equation, and the price.

It is not an entitlement.

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

When I worked at a camera store, many years ago, in college, we were encouraged to spend a lot of time with potential customers. And the results were more sales and greater customer loyalty.

Two things have changed significantly since then.

First, we had three other shops as competitors, and we could match their prices. A few customers bought “Mail Order” (B&H and Adorama were both in business then, I think, along with several others) but it was a major PITA. Today the local shop has dozens of competitors, including big box and internet sources where you can have the product on your doorstep the next day.

The second thing is “degree of difficulty” or learning curve. The differences between brands and features was minimal, and teaching how to focus and “center the needle” was pretty simple. That is obviously very different today.

I don’t expect the same level of service today, but I still patronize the B&M shop for many things. The learning resources available to us are incredible, and it’s on us to use them.

JMHO, of course.

DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX

Welcome. You won't learn anything in the stores. It will take you a while to learn the photography language. There's a lot but it will come to you soon if you shoot, enough. Usually about 10,000 images. Aperture, Shutter Speed, ISO, white balance, raw processing will come to really mean something in short order. Most of us are constant students because the most important thing in making a good image is the 6 inches behind the view finder. Have fun. If someone is snobby it just means they "don't know".

mamaqueue wrote:

I just dropped a grand on my Olympus.
I have a class next week, but I wanted a quick lesson in basics.
I called and they told me they could give me maybe 10 minutes if I stopped in.
Is this normal? It is a pro shop for just cameras/photography, not a Big Box store like Best Buy, etc.
Have I entered the world of digital snobbery?
BTW, I am so glad I found this site...I've learned so much just in the past few weeks.
Thank you.
N.Q.

ebbote Loc: Hockley, Texas

Welcome to the Hog, enjoy.

AlfredU Loc: Mooresville, NC

Buy a book by David Busch for your camera and put the instruction manual back in the box. Go to your class and take lots of pictures. The camera store did its job. Now it's your turn.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

FreddB wrote:

When did minimal customer service become unprofitable? Basic economics of sales; it's cheaper to keep an old customer (who just might refer some new ones) than to drum up new business. Word of mouth advertising still works.

To give you the kind of instruction you seem to be seeking would take hours just for starters. Past learning how to put the battery in how to turn it on, how to use the shutter button and how to review the the images you've taken, what is it that you would have expected them to teach you prior to your course?

Depending on the camera you purchased, it can be a very complex device with hundreds of combinations of options. The best course is to put a little skin in the game. Play with the camera. .Look at the manual and go online find out about the features. Watch YouTube videos. Then you can start asking specific questions about things you don't understand about your camera. Expecting your new camera dealer to give you an in depth review of how to use it is unrealistic. What other moderately priced consumer products have you bought where the vendor that sold it to you spent time to give you an in-depth review of all the features and options and how to use them?

FreddB Loc: PA - Delaware County

Peterff wrote:

It's about the right level of customer service. Customer service is not free, it is a cost to the business and needs to be factored in to the equation, and the price.

It is not an entitlement.

I have really come to hate that word. There is a huuuuuge difference between BEING entitled and FEELING entitled!
And that's that.

tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana

FreddB wrote:

Hell, he should have at least showed you how to get started when you handed over your money

Right said Fred - It's called "customer service." If I owned a camera shop, and a newbie just dropped a grand on a camera, I would be certain of two things - 1- whatever time I spent with that person getting them oriented and started out on the right foot would likely be most appreciated, and 2- when it came time for that person to spend a few more thousands on camera gear, what shop will he (or she) be more likely likely to purchase from - the one who helped him when he needed it, or one of the thousands of other camera stores out there?? Did I have to help him out? - No. Is it good business to help him out, thereby likely benefitting me in the long run - emphatically Yes!! Good customer service is ALWAYS a good investment for the shop owner.