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Computer Basics for Photographers - Bits and Bytes Explained!
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Apr 14, 2018 14:26:09   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Very funny! Now try explaining to people here how 10+10 and 10x10 both equal 100, or how 10 +10+10 = 110.


But if the answer is forty-two, why is the question "what do you get if you multiple six by nine?"

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Apr 14, 2018 14:50:10   #
wicook Loc: Alberta, Canada
 
woodworkerman wrote:
49 20 68 61 76 65 20 70 72 6f 67 72 61 6d 6d 65 64 20 73 69 6e 63 65 20 31 39 36 37 2c 20 74 61 75 67 68 74 20 74 68 69 73 2c 20 61 6e 64 20 65 76 65 6e 20 49 20 61 6d 20 64 69 7a 7a 79 2e - In Hex.


4d 65 2c 20 74 6f 6f 21

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Apr 14, 2018 14:53:04   #
wicook Loc: Alberta, Canada
 
Peterff wrote:
But if the answer is forty-two, why is the question "what do you get if you multiple six by nine?"


I tried to figure that out once upon a time...and it works in base 13. But Douglas Adams claimed that it was just a coincidence.

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Apr 14, 2018 15:20:52   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
Ahhh, the from the famous ASCII table.


woodworkerman wrote:
49 20 68 61 76 65 20 70 72 6f 67 72 61 6d 6d 65 64 20 73 69 6e 63 65 20 31 39 36 37 2c 20 74 61 75 67 68 74 20 74 68 69 73 2c 20 61 6e 64 20 65 76 65 6e 20 49 20 61 6d 20 64 69 7a 7a 79 2e - In Hex.

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Apr 14, 2018 15:36:10   #
pendennis
 
John_F wrote:
In the very old days folks would bite a coin to see if it was too soft to be a silver (or gold) coin. Somewhere along the line a quarter dollar became a bit. I don't recall any early money usage that used byte but you can see frim the phonetics that byte got born from bite (long for bit). Counting is fun, no.

In the early colonial days, the Spanish Peso was divided into eight silver coins, and termed "Bits" by the English. People accepted the Spanish Peso at face value. Therefore "two bits" came to mean a quarter of a dollar; four bits a half-dollar, etc.

The "bite" test was used to determine if the coins were pure silver or gold. Silver and gold would dent, but if another metal was added (copper, tin, etc.), coin wouldn't dent.

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Apr 14, 2018 15:42:15   #
pendennis
 
Deleted - duplicate.

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Apr 14, 2018 15:43:03   #
TheShoe Loc: Lacey, WA
 
bpulv wrote:
Computer Basics for Photographers - Bits and Bytes Explained!

I have seen several posts, in fact three today, where photographers confuse camera math terms with computer math terms and end up completely confused. Let me try and somewhat simplify a complicated subject. Let’s start with computers.

Computers are mathematically based devices and their operation at the most basic level involves binary math. What is binary math? To answer that question, you must first understand a couple of simple concepts. First, there are two ways to count. The Roman’s used a non-positional counting system. If you look at how one counts in Roman numerals, you will see that the sequence is I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, Etc. Note that the value of the numbers are unrelated to their position. Four IV has the higher value “V” (five) to the right of the “I” (one), but VI (six) has the higher value “V” to the left of the lower value “I”.

You are most familiar with the decimal “base-10” number system, a positional number system; each position to the left or right of the decimal point has place value. From the decimal point to the left, the place values are 1, 10, 100, Etc.; while to the right of the decimal point the values are 0.1 (tenths), 0.01 (hundredths), 0.001 (thousandths), Etc.

The second thing you must understand is that computers do everything in a binary number system also called “base 2”. A binary system is also a positional system, however instead of ten numbers (0 through 9), there are only two (0 and 1). In a binary system, you count 000 (equals 0 decimal), 001 (equals 1 decimal), 010 (equals 2 decimal), 011 (equals 3 decimal), 100 (equals 4 decimal), 101 (equals 5 decimal), 110 (equals 6 decimal) and 111 (equals 7 decimal). In a computer, binary numbers describe the position of electronic switches (0=off and 1=on). One byte is 8 bits or two hexidecimal digits.

In a binary system the equivalent of a single base-10 digit is called a “bit”. In computer Machine Language, the computer language in which a computer calculates, everything is binary. When trying to write programs, this is very cumbersome because a programmer could need to enter a 64-bit number for each of the thousands of commands that make up a program. To simplify programming, bits are converted to “words”. In modern computers, words are expressed as hexadecimal (base-16) numbers. Instead of each position having ten possible values as in the decimal system, each position has 16 possible values. In “hex”, you count 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D and F. Letters are used above the value of 9 because decimal digits only go as far as 9. By using hex, programmers are able to form four position bytes so that one byte equals four bits. Furthermore, by combining those 16 bytes into a “word” (a collection of bytes), programming is substantially simplified because the 64 bits can be programmed with less input.

“Pixels” and “Megapixels” (=1,000,000 pixels) are relative to the camera and not the computer. The computer’s file size is a function of many things besides the number of pixels. Remember, that the file contains “Metadata”. The metadata contains information on the camera and settings used to take the picture, detailed information about the picture itself including each and every editing step that was applied to the picture, copyright information, Etc. Look at the size of a file both before and after editing and you will see that the file size can grow substantially.

Therefore, the notion that there is a DIRECT mathematical relationship between the camera’s pixel quantity, file type, or anything else related to the camera and the computer’s file size should be considered questionable.
Computer Basics for Photographers - Bits and Bytes... (show quote)

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Apr 14, 2018 17:12:12   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
BebuLamar wrote:
My point is if someone already knew about binary they would already know that. If someone who didn't know and had no interest then it would be very difficult to explain. Same thing with the original post. It's elementary for those who know and it's over the head of those who are not interested. So it does no good.


I agree with you 100%.

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Apr 14, 2018 17:15:35   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Peterff wrote:
But if the answer is forty-two, why is the question "what do you get if you multiple six by nine?"


Actually 6 x 9 equals 36, at least in hexadecimal.

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Apr 14, 2018 17:21:44   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
blackest wrote:
unfortunately the reverse was also true.


Point being, not all of us understand the same way.

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Apr 14, 2018 17:51:10   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
woodworkerman wrote:
Weren't it - Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar??? ;-)
Yes. From Wikipedia: "In the United States, the bit is equal to one eighth of a dollar or ​12 1⁄2 cents. In the U.S., the "bit" as a designation for money dates from the colonial period, when the most common unit of currency used was the Spanish dollar, also known as "piece of eight", which was worth 8 Spanish silver reales. One eighth of a dollar or one silver real was one "bit"."

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Apr 14, 2018 17:52:21   #
jdedmonds
 
bpulv wrote:
Computer Basics for Photographers - Bits and Bytes Explained!

I have seen several posts, in fact three today, where photographers confuse camera math terms with computer math terms and end up completely confused. Let me try and somewhat simplify a complicated subject. Let’s start with computers.

Computers are mathematically based devices and their operation at the most basic level involves binary math. What is binary math? To answer that question, you must first understand a couple of simple concepts. First, there are two ways to count. The Roman’s used a non-positional counting system. If you look at how one counts in Roman numerals, you will see that the sequence is I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, Etc. Note that the value of the numbers are unrelated to their position. Four IV has the higher value “V” (five) to the right of the “I” (one), but VI (six) has the higher value “V” to the left of the lower value “I”.

You are most familiar with the decimal “base-10” number system, a positional number system; each position to the left or right of the decimal point has place value. From the decimal point to the left, the place values are 1, 10, 100, Etc.; while to the right of the decimal point the values are 0.1 (tenths), 0.01 (hundredths), 0.001 (thousandths), Etc.

The second thing you must understand is that computers do everything in a binary number system also called “base 2”. A binary system is also a positional system, however instead of ten numbers (0 through 9), there are only two (0 and 1). In a binary system, you count 000 (equals 0 decimal), 001 (equals 1 decimal), 010 (equals 2 decimal), 011 (equals 3 decimal), 100 (equals 4 decimal), 101 (equals 5 decimal), 110 (equals 6 decimal) and 111 (equals 7 decimal). In a computer, binary numbers describe the position of electronic switches (0=off and 1=on).

In a binary system the equivalent of a single base-10 digit is called a “bit”. In computer Machine Language, the computer language in which a computer calculates, everything is binary. When trying to write programs, this is very cumbersome because a programmer could need to enter a 64-bit number for each of the thousands of commands that make up a program. To simplify programming, bits are converted to “words”. In modern computers, words are expressed as hexadecimal (base-16) numbers. Instead of each position having ten possible values as in the decimal system, each position has 16 possible values. In “hex”, you count 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D and F. Letters are used above the value of 9 because decimal digits only go as far as 9. By using hex, programmers are able to form four position bytes so that one byte equals four bits. Furthermore, by combining those 16 bytes into a “word” (a collection of bytes), programming is substantially simplified because the 64 bits can be programmed with less input.

“Pixels” and “Megapixels” (=1,000,000 pixels) are relative to the camera and not the computer. The computer’s file size is a function of many things besides the number of pixels. Remember, that the file contains “Metadata”. The metadata contains information on the camera and settings used to take the picture, detailed information about the picture itself including each and every editing step that was applied to the picture, copyright information, Etc. Look at the size of a file both before and after editing and you will see that the file size can grow substantially.

Therefore, the notion that there is a DIRECT mathematical relationship between the camera’s pixel quantity, file type, or anything else related to the camera and the computer’s file size should be considered questionable.
Computer Basics for Photographers - Bits and Bytes... (show quote)


At http://computerscience1.tv/2011/spring/ is a free Harvard course in computer science; it begins with basics and covers just about everything. The lectures are by two very good teachers.

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Apr 14, 2018 17:53:38   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
I just knew someone would come up with the right answer. Thanks, pendennis.

pendennis wrote:
In the early colonial days, the Spanish Peso was divided into eight silver coins, and termed "Bits" by the English. People accepted the Spanish Peso at face value. Therefore "two bits" came to mean a quarter of a dollar; four bits a half-dollar, etc.

The "bite" test was used to determine if the coins were pure silver or gold. Silver and gold would dent, but if another metal was added (copper, tin, etc.), coin wouldn't dent.

Reply
Apr 14, 2018 18:56:20   #
RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas
 
wicook wrote:
4d 65 2c 20 74 6f 6f 21


Me too!

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Apr 14, 2018 18:58:46   #
Acufine3200 Loc: Texarkana USA
 
woodworkerman wrote:
49 20 68 61 76 65 20 70 72 6f 67 72 61 6d 6d 65 64 20 73 69 6e 63 65 20 31 39 36 37 2c 20 74 61 75 67 68 74 20 74 68 69 73 2c 20 61 6e 64 20 65 76 65 6e 20 49 20 61 6d 20 64 69 7a 7a 79 2e - In Hex.


More like “vex”—my phone asked if I wanted to dial the first string of 10.

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