imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

- case closed .....

Hal731

I am now 75 years old and have been a photography hobbyist since I got my first good camera in 1956 when I was 13 years old. Some years ago, I had health issues and could not enjoy carrying my heavy DSLR and lenses. I decided to try micro 4/3 and have been very happy. I am now using the Panasonic GX85, and Panasonic GM5. I just got back from a trip to Costa Rica with my grandchildren. I carried the GX85 with either the 14-140 or the PL12-60 lens, on a sling strap with extra batteries in the pocket of my Scotte vest. I also had a 15mm 1.7 lens with me for indoors or darker areas. I had it on the little GM5 which I put in my pocket and took it at night. The pictures were good enough to blow up to 13 x 19. Very comfortable to carry. i like the Panasonic cameras better than the Olympus because of the much better menu system. I have had both and the IQ is fine with either...just a matter of which menu system you prefer.

Hal

gwilliams6

Sony A6300 or A6500 (w/ five-axis IBIS)

Dennis833 Loc: Australia

A Sony A6000 will give you the best quality images at the lightest weight but avoid the kit lenses and buy quality glass. If you are interested in a couple of wide angle primes to start with don't go past the 18mm Samyang and the 19mm Sigma E mount.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

$1400 and $1700 - and neither are great for landscape - otherwise a good camera in almost every other respect. I have no regrets with my RX10M4. Which one do you own?

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

IBIS is only good for 2.5 stops. Lens-based stabilization is considerably better, reaching 4 stops or better.

Photocraig

I chose the 77D for its lighter weight. The weight savings over the 80D was about 11 ounces. This was brought about by using the Rebel style Penta mirror instead of a prism. I can't tell the difference. And using the Rebel style battery instead of the heavier one in the 80D. I carry spare batteries anyway, so it worked for me. As far as I can tell over the three months I've had it, all of the 80D shooting features are the same, or close enough for me. I chose the 77D over the T7i because it has a bore sophisticated focusing system ad it worked more like the D series than the Rebel series. This might work differently for you and the T7i might fit your choice matrix better.

I didn't pair the body whith the excellent 18-135mm because of the weight and price. I chose, instead to purchase the Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 OS Contemporary, which I had with my 50D (which was stolen). Reasons were a lighter weight, bigger minimum and maximum aperture and price.

I love the flip out screen and the 24 megapixel sensor gives more cropping room for the images than the 16 mighty Megapixels on the 50D or the T2. These are my actual experiences with a replacement for a camera from the same era. Wifi, Blue tooth and pairing with my iphone for remote shutter release and remote live view are super pluses for the new technology available on both the 77D and the 80D.

Since most of my gear was stolen, I was in the position, largely, of being able to start over (with an insurance check in my pocket). I surprised myself by NOT choosing mirror less. I couldn't reconcile the adapter issues for the Canon series and the limited and expensive lens choices of the Sony, Fuji and Olympus offerings. I would have been a prohibited (vs. prohibitive) $1,000 over my budget to replace the Sigma 17-70, and Canon 10-18 and 70-300 lenses (also stolen). In addition, projected future upgrade lens choices were limited and even more expensive.

AND..... The mirror less bodies all weigh about 16 OZ +/-, which is a mere 3 OZ. lighter than the EOS 77D which I already mostly know how to use. Winner Winner STEAK Dinner!

Happy,
C

DeanS Loc: Capital City area of North Carolina

I have this among my collEction. Excellent.

gwilliams6

Gene51 Sony IBIS in the A6500 is good for 5stops, not 2.5 stops. Check your facts please.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-6500-body-kit/specifications#features

In-body 5-axis image stabilization
The α6500 compensates for five types of camera shake, extending opportunities to shoot steadier still images and movies. The new high-accuracy gyro sensor provides an image stabilization effect equivalent to a 5-steps-faster shutter speed.(five stops) The camera enables you to zoom in on faraway subjects, snap detailed close-ups, capture night scenes and more ― all with minimal camera shake blur. (1) Yaw (2) Pitch (3) Roll

IBIS (In Body Image Stabilization) will work with any lens that fits the camera,native or third-party , whether or not the lens has Lens-based stabilization. This opens up many more lenses available to the shooter. Absolutely no real photo expert has ever proved any claim that lens stabilization is better than IBIS. No lens stabilization has achieved 5-axis, that can only be achieved at the sensor in-body. . Sony and others make lenses with and without lens stabilization. Lenses mounted on a Sony A6500 that have image stabilization, work with the IBIS together for an added measure of stabilization.

Gene, I have decades of professional experience here, and a Master Degree in Digital Photography. I know what I am talking about on this. Cheers

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Marketing-speak is not fact. Often it is far removed from fact.

Actually I did check my facts, and along with my own experience when I was considering buying one last summer, I found this review that supported my impression of Sony's 5 Axis IBIS on the 6500. Other than the IBIS claims I found very little to complain about with the A6500. It is a great camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-a6500/6

And what's worse for me, the IBIS is less effective on longer focal lengths, which is to be expected. They have yet to resolve the situation when you have a lens with OS and the IBIS simultaneously engaged. All in all, the IBIS is ok, but not even close to the mfgr's hype. The marketing guys talk a good story, but for the rest of us that actually use these cameras, reports from the field trump anything coming out of Sony. There is no way IBIS gives you a 5 stop improvement in stability. I stand by DpReview's and my own experience. To date, no stabilization system provides a 5 stop advantage, though the stabilization in the Tamron 150-600 G2 comes as close as I have yet to see from all manufacturers.

I do understand that the IBIS has been improved with a firmware update, but I have no experience with it.

I don't have a degree in photography, and I only speak from my own experience, supported by reputable reviewers. And you shouldn't take my word for it. My experience with the A6500 was underwhelming as far as the IBIS. This could have been a unique experience, but I would imagine that the Sony Store in Manhattan would have the latest firmware installed on their loaner cameras.

What has your experience been with the A6500? Do you have any image samples that show the effectiveness of the IBIS with short, medium and longer lenses? Was the update as described?

rfmaude41 Loc: Lancaster, Texas (DFW area)

Or a Nikon P900.

gwilliams6

There are other reviewers out there that found they could hand hold down to 1 sec. with the A7R3 because of the IBIS and it was between four and five stops improvement. (as the A7R3 is a newer model, there have been more reviewers testing it and posting videos on YouTube since its November launch in NYC, and subsequent Sony photographers events in Sedona) . There are still current and older YouTube reviews of the A6500 that really like the IBIS. Remember no single review, including DPreview is the end-all on actual shooting with these cameras. I have seen many conflicting reviews on these same cameras and lenses.

Yes the firmware updates are helpful. I have many handheld shots with both my A6500 and A7R3 that lead me to believe I AM getting better than four stops from their IBIS. No I don't have before and after shots to prove that. IBIS has been more of a real help when I have been shooting with medium to longer lenses. However I was not making shots for review posting.

I was trekking through the Scottish Highlands and the Scottish Hebrides Islands for three weeks last fall with my A7R2 (before the A7R3 was released) and my A6500 and the weather was rough, not much sun, loads of rain,mist and fog. Light was mostly poor ,but often atmospheric and spectacular. In addition to my wide angle shots, I was also using a Sony 70-200mm f2.8 G-Master lens (often with a circular polarizing filter which costs a stop of light), and sometimes with its Sony 2X extender to give myself relatively a 400mm f5.6 or less (the 2X costs two stops of light). So I was hand holding hundreds of shots in these low light, long lens situations and getting completely steady shots at shutter speeds that I could never have been able to before. Even taking long exposures of waterfalls in the misty glens and highlands in overcast weather, I was able to handhold long exposures with my wide angle and medium telephoto lens , so that I could get that silky flowing look to the rushing waters.

Sometimes lens OSS and IBIS together have helped more than each alone, and other times testers found that the images were steadier (especially in video mode) with just the OSS on with no IBIS (in a YouTube reviewers test comparing Sony, Sigma and Canon 24-105mm lenses ,the Sony 24-105mm lens was deemed steadier in video walk-around shooting with just the OSS alone). If I can find this link to the YouTube video again, I will post it here, I promise.

And in lens reviews of other OSS Sony and non OSS Sony lenses, other testers thought the IBIS did a great job in both stills and video, go figure. And of course any tripod-mounted very long exposure shooting (like in night and astro shots) should have any Image stabilizing turned off if possible.

FYI ,I own both OSS and non OSS lenses for my A6500 and A7R3. The IBIS allows me not to worry about which lens I pull out of my bag to best accomplish the shot. And yes I can tell the difference between my A7R2 (which I upgrade) and my new A7R3 in terms of IBIS. Sony claimed a increase from 4.5 stops in the A7R2 to 5.5 stops of IBIS in the A7R3. Other shooters have non-scientifically, but subjectively also felt an improvement. Cheers.

moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment

The IBIS in the Olympus OM1 mkII is outstanding, with some users reporting multiple second exposures. It is rated at 5.5 stops. With certain lenses with OIS also, they claim 6.5 stops, with dual IS.

My personal experience is it works really well.

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

Rent the Olympus E-M5 mrII, 12-100mm f4 Pro IS lense, and the 72mm polarizer for it. No tripod needed for up to two second shots. If you want to go whole hog, replace the E-M5 mrII with the E-M1 mrII. Then, if you are careful, you might be able to handhold to 4 or 5 seconds. It is sharp at wide open f4 down to f8 at all focal lengths. And except for some diffraction, it is relative sharp all the way to f22. The weight for the E-M5, 12-100mm, battery, and chips (two slots) is 2.28 pounds and with the E-M1 the weight shoots up to 2.57 pounds. Either set-up is capable of 0.6X (wide) to 0.42X (tele) magnification for close-ups. The lense is 3.05" X 4.59". The bodies are 4.9" X 3.4" X 1.8" for the E-M5 and 5.3" X 3.6" X 2.7" for the E-M1. With lense on, the distance is shorter than the 6.4" or 7.3" front to back. There is no need for rain protection; either can be used freely in the rain. You will need a small thin sponge and micro cloth to remove raindrops off the front element. These two bodies provide the most photographic control of any camera I know. They also have a more complicated menu for that set-up. You should try the camera and lense setup at a camera store before you rent. There is a learning curve but it still can be switched to any of the modes for shooting. I run mine on Program mode with the two dials set for controling aperture and exposure compensation for a majority of photos. Cost of the E-M5 is $850 and $1700 for the E-M1. The 12-100mm f4 Pro IS lense is $1300 but may be slightly cheaper if bundled. Then if you liked what you rented, you will know what to buy.

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

12-100mm is as good as indicated. Olympus is fearful that people will only buy that lense. Having rented that lense, I understand their fears. But I will be buying more than that lense to complete my system. If you buy that lense and the 7-14mm f2.8 Pro lense, you will have two lense that will make your system very complete with your present E-M1 and Pany 100-400mm.