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Lightroom class question
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Feb 2, 2018 07:38:35   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
al13 wrote:
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the Vanderbilt University Art Department. My question refers to our instructor’s comments concerning Raw versus JPEG. During both recent classes he has strongly stated that we should be shooting in JPEG not Raw. He said he shoots over 95 percent of his photos in JPEG. He said he rarely PP’s his photos and if needed he can do that in JPEG using Lightroom or Photoshop and get the same results. He is a University photographer, news photographer, mid 40’s, etc. He seems to know Lightroom and how to properly set up the catalog portion but I am having problems with his JPEG philosophy.

I will continue to shoot in raw but would appreciate any insight as to why an alleged professional would teach us to shoot in JPEG. Almost forgot to add that he also teaches a basic digital class and tells those students to shoot JPEG only as the files are smaller and require less PP. I have stated in open class that several friends who were professional photographers and still have photo web sites advised me to shoot in Raw and the reasons behind their advice. He answered he doesn’t understand why people continue to offer that type of advice.

I have decided to keep my mouth shut and try to finish the class I paid bucks for. Am I missing something?

Thanks
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the V... (show quote)


He's not entirely wrong. I've seen many articles by responsible photographers recommending shooting in JPEG. If the shooting situation is reasonable, and you have a decent camera, you can get very good results. Millions of people do this every day. If you want to process to the nth degree, or if the shooting situation is less than ideal, or if you want to brag that you shoot raw exclusively, then raw might be the way to go.

I shoot raw all the time because... : )

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Feb 2, 2018 07:47:20   #
Revet Loc: Fairview Park, Ohio
 
I guess my problem with those that frown on post processing is that the jpegs out of the camera are processed first by the camera and depending on what picture control setting you use (is. vivid, standard, portrait, etc.), it may not represent what you actually saw. I am not very artistic so when I post process an image, I try to recreate what I saw using a RAW photo as my template.

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Feb 2, 2018 08:22:31   #
petego4it Loc: NY
 
This is an age old question, not so hard. Unarguably there are many advantages to jpgs, foremost being time and storage space. Unarguably one can better tweak a photo using raw. The answer is not hard these days. An option for most cameras is to shoot both; first use the jpgs for speed of output, volume and non critical sharing. Retain but don't download the raw shots until you've reviewed the jpg output. For any important/critical/potential shots, also download the relevant raw or series of raws before reformatting. Helps if you can afford large chips...but presumably you've spent notable money already on the camera.

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Feb 2, 2018 08:43:03   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Rehess mentioned the Winter Olympics and Getty Images' need for speed. Here's the article about shooting and processing by Getty at the Sochi Olympics. Read down into the middle about the four people involved: the photographer and three editors.

http://gizmodo.com/the-inside-story-of-how-olympic-photographers-capture-s-1521746623

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Feb 2, 2018 09:25:43   #
GED Loc: North central Pa
 
via the lens wrote:
Hi, keeping your mouth shut and finishing the class is the smart way to go (I've done the opposite before and it was a mistake). You can always write a letter to the college after you finish the class letting them know what you thought of the instructor. As your instructor came from a news media background he is simply teaching what he knows and he is obviously biased toward what he knows, rather than being open to all of the possibilities. I teach LR at a junior college but never have I told anyone what they should do: I offer up all the possibilities and facts and then let them decide what works best for them and their photography goals. Shoot to match what your personal goals are, not what his personal goals are. There are many possibilities in photography and it is sad to hear that an instructor is so close-minded. Take what you can from the class and move on.
Hi, keeping your mouth shut and finishing the clas... (show quote)


via the lens gives good advice, in the field of photography I found early on it was best to seek out the people who's work you admire and study under them when possible. You waste less time and money, you learn the field techniques that will produce top quality work, and in present times the pp techniques that augment the field work you did previously. I don't know what type of work you desire to do, news reporting, or natural history but if it is natural history and you wish to sell your work you will be competing on national and international levels. If you don't wish to sell your work but just shoot for enjoyment and want high quality the procedure is the same. I agree with via the lens, your instructor is just teaching what he knows and is familiar with. If that is the type of work you want to do then his program would probably be suitable, however if your desire is to do many other types of photography you will need to shoot in RAW and pp for the highest quality.

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Feb 2, 2018 09:32:15   #
wrangler5 Loc: Missouri
 
Check the course catalog and see what the stated course objectives are. LR began as a catalog/management tool with a few basic editing powers. The editing tools have grown over the years, to the point where I can do most of my personal image work entirely within LR. I would certainly expect any initial LR course to concentrate on the catalog function, but the OP said he was taking a second course, so it would be good to know what it was intended to deliver.

Personally, I've shot RAW since I got a Nikon D70 (the D100 I started with was way too slow - it took several seconds to write a RAW file to the card, so all those images were JPEGs.) With the ever-decreasing cost of storage, and ever increasing speed of in-camera processors, I've decided to do RAW+JPEG this year. And I will use the monochrome setting in my Olympus micro4/3 cameras so the JPEGs are already B&W. All my output is printed B&W, and I'll be interested to see how much better (if at all) I can do processing the raw files into monochrome myself as compared to the camera.

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Feb 2, 2018 09:42:18   #
JennT Loc: South Central PA
 
Is your prof an adjunct?

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Feb 2, 2018 11:30:43   #
al13
 
JennT wrote:
Is your prof an adjunct?


Yes, he teaches a basic digital camera course as well which I didn't take but several in my class are now taking in the evening. So far I was able to set up my catalog system which is what I wanted out of the class. He is rather flamboyant and has a tendency to jump around although I have been able to bring him back to my needs. my original question has been answered and I will continue shooting in raw unless I have a need for JPEG.

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Feb 2, 2018 11:36:26   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
al13 wrote:
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the Vanderbilt University Art Department. My question refers to our instructor’s comments concerning Raw versus JPEG. During both recent classes he has strongly stated that we should be shooting in JPEG not Raw. He said he shoots over 95 percent of his photos in JPEG. He said he rarely PP’s his photos and if needed he can do that in JPEG using Lightroom or Photoshop and get the same results. He is a University photographer, news photographer, mid 40’s, etc. He seems to know Lightroom and how to properly set up the catalog portion but I am having problems with his JPEG philosophy.

I will continue to shoot in raw but would appreciate any insight as to why an alleged professional would teach us to shoot in JPEG. Almost forgot to add that he also teaches a basic digital class and tells those students to shoot JPEG only as the files are smaller and require less PP. I have stated in open class that several friends who were professional photographers and still have photo web sites advised me to shoot in Raw and the reasons behind their advice. He answered he doesn’t understand why people continue to offer that type of advice.

I have decided to keep my mouth shut and try to finish the class I paid bucks for. Am I missing something?

Thanks
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the V... (show quote)


You sort of answered your own question. He is a News Photographer, he has no time to PP. He is not (obviously) a Fine Arts Photographer. He only uses Lightroom and not Photoshop too. I nearly always shoot Raw. I want total control and I'm a hobbyist and have time to process one image at a time. I had an instructor too who is a part time Still Photographer for a TV News Program (L.A. area CBS, NBC, ABC, I forgot). She shoots JPGs because she sometimes has only a two hour turn around time to submit her images if needed for a news broadcast. She has to quickly sort and send what she's done. But she never bad mouthed Raw. Education does not an artist make, but skill and knowledge.

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Feb 2, 2018 11:43:14   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
al13 wrote:
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the Vanderbilt University Art Department. My question refers to our instructor’s comments concerning Raw versus JPEG. During both recent classes he has strongly stated that we should be shooting in JPEG not Raw. He said he shoots over 95 percent of his photos in JPEG. He said he rarely PP’s his photos and if needed he can do that in JPEG using Lightroom or Photoshop and get the same results. He is a University photographer, news photographer, mid 40’s, etc. He seems to know Lightroom and how to properly set up the catalog portion but I am having problems with his JPEG philosophy.

I will continue to shoot in raw but would appreciate any insight as to why an alleged professional would teach us to shoot in JPEG. Almost forgot to add that he also teaches a basic digital class and tells those students to shoot JPEG only as the files are smaller and require less PP. I have stated in open class that several friends who were professional photographers and still have photo web sites advised me to shoot in Raw and the reasons behind their advice. He answered he doesn’t understand why people continue to offer that type of advice.

I have decided to keep my mouth shut and try to finish the class I paid bucks for. Am I missing something?

Thanks
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the V... (show quote)


Look at it this way,

RAW is like a negative (though viewed as positive).

A JPG is like a Polaroid. What you see is what you get.

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Feb 2, 2018 12:59:43   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
al13 wrote:
Am I missing something?

Thanks


No, you should do what you think is best. I have nothing against other people that choose to shoot jpg, but I choose to shoot raw. I'm glad I do because every once in a while I forget to change my settings and get a shot that is way underexposed. I remember shooting in M (manual) and had my settings set for birds that were in full sun. All of a sudden a Summer Tanager flew into the shade of a large tree and I was so excited that I forgot to open up or change my setting for shade. I was 3 full stops underexposed. I only got a burst of about 5 shots off before he flew away. I looked at the back of my camera and saw a very dark image of the bird. I was very disappointed when I saw this. When I got home I was able to bring it back in Lightroom and had a decent image of a Summer Tanager.

I must also say, when taking pictures of a nice blue sky that varies in shades of blue, I get some banding when I shoot jpg. This happens because jpg images are only 8bit images. If you shoot in raw, and edit the image with blue sky's you are not going to get this kind of banding. Sometimes the banding will occur when saving the raw to jpg because it has too few gradations of blue in an 8bit image. Not always, but sometimes.

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Feb 2, 2018 14:36:40   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
jeep_daddy wrote:
No, you should do what you think is best. I have nothing against other people that choose to shoot jpg, but I choose to shoot raw. I'm glad I do because every once in a while I forget to change my settings and get a shot that is way underexposed. I remember shooting in M (manual) and had my settings set for birds that were in full sun. All of a sudden a Summer Tanager flew into the shade of a large tree and I was so excited that I forgot to open up or change my setting for shade. I was 3 full stops underexposed. I only got a burst of about 5 shots off before he flew away. I looked at the back of my camera and saw a very dark image of the bird. I was very disappointed when I saw this. When I got home I was able to bring it back in Lightroom and had a decent image of a Summer Tanager.

I must also say, when taking pictures of a nice blue sky that varies in shades of blue, I get some banding when I shoot jpg. This happens because jpg images are only 8bit images. If you shoot in raw, and edit the image with blue sky's you are not going to get this kind of banding. Sometimes the banding will occur when saving the raw to jpg because it has too few gradations of blue in an 8bit image. Not always, but sometimes.
No, you should do what you think is best. I have ... (show quote)


Good points, I too shoot RAW as I noted before. Yes, Raw is better for correcting under exposure but also setting WB. I often forget to change WB in my cameras. I generally leave them on AWB or Daylight in case I do shoot a JPG. The camera set WB only affects the initial view of a RAW file anyway so I can fix usually with one click to the "proper" WB in ACR. Also yes, JPGs are 8-bit file format and only 8-bit. Most DSLRs are 14-bit internally so you are tossing data right off going to a JPG. And a few digital cameras are 10-bit, 12-bit or 16-bit, CellPhones might be 8-bit even if Raw. I generally work with 16- or even 32- bit PSD or TIF files.

Not to be totally disparaging towards JPEGs, they can be set to several different quality levels (amount of compression). If set at the highest level and set to at least 300ppi they might not be too bad. I've gotten some pretty nice images from the best JPGs. Before I knew the difference and what I was doing I did shoot JPG. If I could only re-shoot some of those images.

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Feb 2, 2018 15:06:15   #
jackpi Loc: Southwest Ohio
 
al13 wrote:
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the Vanderbilt University Art Department. My question refers to our instructor’s comments concerning Raw versus JPEG. During both recent classes he has strongly stated that we should be shooting in JPEG not Raw. He said he shoots over 95 percent of his photos in JPEG. He said he rarely PP’s his photos and if needed he can do that in JPEG using Lightroom or Photoshop and get the same results. He is a University photographer, news photographer, mid 40’s, etc. He seems to know Lightroom and how to properly set up the catalog portion but I am having problems with his JPEG philosophy.

I will continue to shoot in raw but would appreciate any insight as to why an alleged professional would teach us to shoot in JPEG. Almost forgot to add that he also teaches a basic digital class and tells those students to shoot JPEG only as the files are smaller and require less PP. I have stated in open class that several friends who were professional photographers and still have photo web sites advised me to shoot in Raw and the reasons behind their advice. He answered he doesn’t understand why people continue to offer that type of advice.

I have decided to keep my mouth shut and try to finish the class I paid bucks for. Am I missing something?

Thanks
I have finished my second Lightroom class at the V... (show quote)

Every photographer can be classified somewhere on the spectrum from "documenter" to "artist." JPEG only is for someone firmly on the "documenter" end of that spectrum. This is where you find photojournalists and selfie photographers. At other end of the spectrum are the fine art photographers.

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Feb 2, 2018 15:21:59   #
DanCulleton
 
Any work i’ve ever done in JPEG i’ve ended up wishing I shot in RAW.
I’ve never shor RAW and later wished I shot JPEG.
Pretty simple!

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Feb 2, 2018 17:51:13   #
MadMikeOne Loc: So. NJ Shore - a bit west of Atlantic City
 
deer2ker wrote:
Why would he be teaching Lightroom if he is so opposed to PP? Strange.


That is exactly what I was thinking. Makes no sense to me.

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