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Dec 23, 2017 22:28:11   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Shutterbug57 wrote:
The BUFF (B52) is older than all but 1 of my cameras and we still send it to war. The Bone (B1) and Boomerang (B2) are newer, but the BUFF still gets many a call.


After we knock out their defenses and escort them with more modern planes that can respond to threats. They would be sitting ducks otherwise. The North Vietnamese didn't seem to have any trouble shooting down some of them.

I laugh when the Russians keep buzzing the UK and the US with their Bear bombers. By themselves, they wouldn't last 10 seconds in our airspace.

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Dec 23, 2017 22:40:35   #
dyximan
 
anotherview wrote:
This statement exaggerates: "Back in the day you had to know what to do, now you just have to know what camera to buy to do it for you." Brownie cameras existed back in the day, as the old-time point-and-shoot, with Kodak doing all the after-work. Read the history of photography.


Again I think you missed my point, you had to think lot more about your shots back in the day as you had only a limited number of shots with film regardless of how they were developed, as you only had vitro of your camera and any settings it may have had, and the developer had control of the end product for the most. Now we have far more control of the camera, but need little as we can PP it to look like just about anything we want. Regardless of our skill, buy the eye of the shooter although can be enhanced. But you either have it or you don't. And I think it was more of me over simplifying then exgarating

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Dec 23, 2017 22:44:39   #
dyximan
 
Apaflo wrote:
That is an extremely ignorant and misguided statement. You are saying that kitchen cabinets, wall framing, roofing and any other job for a hammer can be done with a ball-peen hammer. Maybe a home owner might try that, but not a competent carpenter.

The same is true of competent photographers. They use the right tool for the job. The more competent and more critical they are the more expensive and higher quality their tools.

Nobody in their right mind would actually expect to do as well with an Argus brick as a D850 for the photography a D850 is designed for.
That is an extremely ignorant and misguided statem... (show quote)


And you are extremely stupid I have no idea what you're talking about and how you got a ball peen hammer from a regular hammer the kitchen cabinets and framing. My point is this I am in the trades what I was taught and I can do is not taught and very seldom experienced by the carpenters of today and if you think it's the same today as it was in yesterday then you're an idiot. I could get into the whole union nonunion thing but God for bid I throw something else in the mix you might consider Chinese compared to French based on Mind set

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Dec 23, 2017 23:11:57   #
geodowns Loc: Yale, Michigan
 
When I was in the Air Force we where sometime out along the runway at Beale AFB. We could see 4 B52s taking off one after they other. Than wait a while, an SR71 took off. The real thing, not an air show, but talk about the old mixing in with the new. Both had a job to do. One could not do the job of the other just like you cant put film in a digital camera or put a sim card where the film goes. So pick the right camera for the right job. And do the job.!

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Dec 23, 2017 23:17:12   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
dyximan wrote:
And you are extremely stupid I have no idea what you're talking about and how you got a ball peen hammer from a regular hammer the kitchen cabinets and framing. My point is this I am in the trades what I was taught and I can do is not taught and very seldom experienced by the carpenters of today and if you think it's the same today as it was in yesterday then you're an idiot. I could get into the whole union nonunion thing but God for bid I throw something else in the mix you might consider Chinese compared to French based on Mind set
And you are extremely stupid I have no idea what y... (show quote)


He can never understand that a component photographer can take any camera and create award winners with them.

All you have to do is click on his website link in his signature to see how incompetent he is as a photographer. He is the best example for how insignificant gear is. All that wasted money. You can give anyone a camera and that person will match the quality of his snapshots.

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Dec 23, 2017 23:17:49   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
That's about the size of it: "Shooting pictures on an old film camera involves too much time and expense for results that you can easily obtain with a modern camera."
therwol wrote:
I still have my FTn. It has sentimental value, which is why I hold onto it, but I don't use it. Would you go to war with a fleet of B17s? Do you still watch black and white TV on a 10 inch screen? Time moves on. Technology advances. I say it's mostly for the better. Shooting pictures on an old film camera involves too much time and expense for results that you can easily obtain with a modern camera, and I could never match what I can do with my Nikon DSLR (D810) with my FTn.

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Dec 23, 2017 23:19:49   #
James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
 
Shutterbug57 wrote:
The BUFF (B52) is older than all but 1 of my cameras and we still send it to war. The Bone (B1) and Boomerang (B2) are newer, but the BUFF still gets many a call.


The BUFF is like a Zippo lighter or a Bic pen. Sometimes they get it right on the money, And, if it ain't broke, Don't fix it!

9mm Hi-Powers and .45 1911s likewise come to mind!

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Dec 23, 2017 23:29:05   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
dyximan wrote:
And you are extremely stupid I have no idea what you're talking about ...

I apologize for posting a reply that was too complex. My reply was directed to the comment that a hammer is just a tool, which misses the point that hammers are very specialized tools. Just like cameras. Not just any camera, nor just any hammer, is the right tool for a given job.

Please avoid personal insults and gratuitous off topic obfuscation.

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Dec 23, 2017 23:47:18   #
oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon
 
As a general point, I disagree that photography required more skillin the era of fully manual cameras. As technology as progressed, the standard for a "good" photograph has also progressed. As we have better equipment we expect better performance from the photographer. So, my guess is that it requires at least as much skill today to produce a "good" photograph as it did 50+ years ago.

A simple example: for my first manual camera I had only 3 variables to adjust -- aperature, shutter speed, and focus. ISO (ASA) was already determined by the film in my camera as was white balance (film for daylight or for artificial lighting).

My present camera has at least 6 variables I need to attend to for each shot: program priority A or S or M, even if I select priority A or S I still have to monitor the other, focus if using a Zeiss lens, white balance, ISO, VR on or off if using a lens with it. My first camera was a fixed lens version, so a 7th variable today is which lens to use for which shot. So, I think that using today's more sophisticated equipment can require more skill to produce a "good" photograph due to more variables being involved than simpler equipment of yesterday.

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Dec 23, 2017 23:52:37   #
James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
 
Apaflo wrote:
I apologize for posting a reply that was too complex. My reply was directed to the comment that a hammer is just a tool, which misses the point that hammers are very specialized tools. Just like cameras. Not just any camera, nor just any hammer, is the right tool for a given job.

Please avoid personal insults and gratuitous off topic obfuscation.



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Dec 23, 2017 23:59:14   #
James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
 
DeanS wrote:
I speculate there are two camps here - those who are all in on the high tech angle, vs those who long for the old “crank” days. Then some of us just want to have fun with whatever tool we can afford.

That said, my belief is that tech is here to stay, and the old ‘wind ‘em up’ cameras will one day be relics and collector items. Have you seen any Mercury dimes or pre-1959 pennies lately? Nope, just in my coin collection.

Just my two pre-1959 cents worth.


Just as I have been doing since I was a kid, I always check my pennies for "wheats" , Last week I got a 1924! oldest one I got in change in a while!

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Dec 23, 2017 23:59:59   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
This assertion has become time-worn in the debate of film versus digital photography: "you had to think lot more about your shots back in the day as you had only a limited number of shots with film."

It supposes at least two things: One, that digital photographers do sloppy photography and in haste because the cost of wasted shots remains negligible; and two, that digital photographers do not take as much care as a film photographer when doing their photography. This assertion thus insults digital photographers as a way to devalue their work, and as if to say only film photographers function as real photographers. Baloney.

I can attest that in my case I apply care when doing my photography. In fact, nearly all my compositions in the field require no cropping in post-processing later.
Of course, getting exposure right in the camera, from what I gather, still presents a challenge to the digital photographer just as it did to the film photographer.

For the record, I have no beef with film photography. It represents another valid method of doing photography. Further, digital photography rests on the long history and practice of film photography. Moreover, a digital photographer would do well to study the work of film photographers for their accomplishments.

Happy Holidays!
dyximan wrote:
Again I think you missed my point, you had to think lot more about your shots back in the day as you had only a limited number of shots with film regardless of how they were developed, as you only had vitro of your camera and any settings it may have had, and the developer had control of the end product for the most. Now we have far more control of the camera, but need little as we can PP it to look like just about anything we want. Regardless of our skill, buy the eye of the shooter although can be enhanced. But you either have it or you don't. And I think it was more of me over simplifying then exgarating
Again I think you missed my point, you had to thin... (show quote)

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Dec 24, 2017 00:09:39   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Good points. I note also that today with so many more people doing photography, the standard for worthy photography has risen, too. In addition, I suppose critics expect more given the wide control the photographer has over his photographic output.
oregonfrank wrote:
As a general point, I disagree that photography required more skillin the era of fully manual cameras. As technology as progressed, the standard for a "good" photograph has also progressed. As we have better equipment we expect better performance from the photographer. So, my guess is that it requires at least as much skill today to produce a "good" photograph as it did 50+ years ago.

A simple example: for my first manual camera I had only 3 variables to adjust -- aperature, shutter speed, and focus. ISO (ASA) was already determined by the film in my camera as was white balance (film for daylight or for artificial lighting).

My present camera has at least 6 variables I need to attend to for each shot: program priority A or S or M, even if I select priority A or S I still have to monitor the other, focus if using a Zeiss lens, white balance, ISO, VR on or off if using a lens with it. My first camera was a fixed lens version, so a 7th variable today is which lens to use for which shot. So, I think that using today's more sophisticated equipment can require more skill to produce a "good" photograph due to more variables being involved than simpler equipment of yesterday.
As a general point, I disagree that photography re... (show quote)

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Dec 24, 2017 00:12:59   #
James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA
 
Kiron Kid wrote:
A good photographer can shoot equally well with an Argus brick or the Nikon 850. The camera is just a tool. Just as a hammer is to a carpenter.

SVP


True enough, (45 years as owner of an Argus C3), I have made beautiful landscapes with it, but If I had to "shoot" a basketball game or other fast moving subject, I really appreciate a faster shutter speed than 1/300! 😉

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Dec 24, 2017 00:22:51   #
alx Loc: NJ
 
As long as there have been cameras there have been snapshot takers, photographers and GREAT photographers. Every generation of equipment has had its share of each, but one thing for sure is that the GREATS work at it and have a feel for it inside them, regardless of what they hold in their hands.

One thing that helps is practice. Like any other skill, art or talent, it takes practice to achieve greatness. It takes time and effort to learn and hone ones skills, to make them second nature.

In that regard, the delete button is our friend in the digital age. We can go out and shoot our hearts out. If it is a bad day, that delete button (or format on a really bad day) wipes the slate clean and lets us start anew at no cost. Memory cards are like an infinite film roll in that sense. That means our mistakes don't cost us so dearly. We get to learn and grow and reach for more.

In the end though, the EYES have it. Teach them well and you can reach for greatness.

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