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Why do you fear subscription software?
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Dec 22, 2017 07:20:03   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Bill_de wrote:
WLike a leased car, when you stop paying you are cut off. People who buy cars don't fear leases, they just prefer to own, knowing when they finish paying they can choose to keep using it, even if newer models have new features.
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Good comparison. I kept my last two cars seventeen years each - just by coincidence. I made no payments on either of them for fifteen years. We now have two 2015 cars in the family, both paid for, and we'll keep them for years.

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Dec 22, 2017 07:20:29   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Longshadow wrote:

I'm still using Quicken 2007, Word 2003, and last year I upgraded to Elements 14 from 4. Two years before I upgraded Photo Impact Pro (after about six years).
What I have meets my needs. Why should I keep purchasing software that might do things I really don't need?



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Dec 22, 2017 07:23:51   #
cedymock Loc: Irmo, South Carolina
 
The best summation of this for me is if you are in the photography business for profit Adobe subscription not a problem. Taking photos for enjoyment and not for sell and all the bells & whistles not needed subscription not so much. Personally I would like to purchase the product rather than subscribe. What would be nice for me is to purchase Photoshop and LR get free updates for keeping software safe from hacking & to purchase bell and whistle updates that I may want.

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Dec 22, 2017 07:24:17   #
Jim Bob
 
JD750 wrote:
The Adobe Photographers Plan has reaped huge profits for Adobe (making a profit is what businesses are supposed to do) and gives better service to the customers in the form of real timrbtyñ. Customer costs are about the same as buying paid uldates.

What is not to like?


It's not fear. It's good sense.

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Dec 22, 2017 07:24:38   #
PeterBergh
 
JD750 wrote:
The Adobe Photographers Plan has reaped huge profits for Adobe (making a profit is what businesses are supposed to do) and gives better service to the customers in the form of real timrbtyñ. Customer costs are about the same as buying paid uldates.

What is not to like?


The reason I don't go with the Adobe photographer's plan is that Lightroom CC refuses to install on my "photo" laptop (64-bit Windows 7), even though Lightroom 6 runs like a charm on that same laptop. (Because that laptop has a 20" screen, I strongly resist upgrading the hardware. I can't upgrade the OS to Windows 10; I refuse to consider Windows 8 and 8.1, which I consider pieces of excrement.)

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Dec 22, 2017 07:26:27   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
Too many people don't read their software licensing agreement and fail to understand that you never OWN the software.


That's a popular argument, but it makes no difference who "owns" it as long as I don't have to keep paying. I have WordPerfect that I bought years ago. For all practical purposes, I own it. I install it on every new computer I get without paying additional charges. If it doesn't work on Windows 25, I'll buy something else.

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Dec 22, 2017 07:29:17   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
HOHIMER wrote:
1. I am forced to pay subject to a ‘time’ base rather than a ‘use’ base.
To me, the value of a piece of software is in its utility (Use) not the fact it is installed on my computer.
If I had to ‘time-base’ subscribe to each of the pieces of software that I might need for only a very short period of time each month (there are about 25 separate programs. Some I use as little as 10 minutes per month, some only a few times per year.) the expense would not be cost effective. Other than my Browser (Email and Internet) nothing I have on my computer sees constant high usage.
1. I am forced to pay subject to a ‘time’ base rat... (show quote)


Right. I use LR several times a week, but I seldom use PS now, yet I would have to keep paying monthly for it.

How long will it be before we have to rent cameras rather than own them outright?

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Dec 22, 2017 07:31:17   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
jerryc41 wrote:
That's a popular argument, but it makes no difference who "owns" it as long as I don't have to keep paying. I have WordPerfect that I bought years ago. For all practical purposes, I own it. I install it on every new computer I get without paying additional charges. If it doesn't work on Windows 25, I'll buy something else.



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Dec 22, 2017 07:33:42   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Hmmmm....seems like there are too many Adobe Stock Holders begging


NOT AT ALL... I own stock in Walmart, Oklahoma Gas and Electric, Hartford Insurance, and Apple. I don't own Adobe stock but I do appreciate what they have done. Also, for the software that I get for $10 per month, it would cost an initial investment of $1000 and then once the software aged, I would have to upgrade again.. lets see 3 years for an upgrade... so 3 into 1000 is $333 per year.. then you get to do it again. hmm and Adobe is offering at $120 per year? hmmm It doesn't take an accountant to figure that out.

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Dec 22, 2017 07:37:25   #
Yankeepapa6 Loc: New York City
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
I don't know.


You are right. Hard telling not knowing. I heard that for the first time yesterday. I think it's great.

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Dec 22, 2017 07:44:01   #
Dan R Loc: Way Way Way Upstate NY
 
jerryc41 wrote:
$120 a year for something I already have - LR6. Do I really need every little tweak that Adobe adds to LR? No, I don't. If I stop paying, I lose LR. For me, it's a choice of paying $120 a year or paying nothing. LR does all I want it to do. If I were doing processing as a business, I might be tempted. Maybe. There are now so many good alternatives to Lightroom for under $100.

Quicken is now selling by subscription. The $60 version I got years ago will last me the rest of my life. The alternative is to pay them $90 every twenty-seven months. Pretty soon, almost everything will be "Pay Forever," but I'm resisting as long as I can.
$120 a year for something I already have - LR6. D... (show quote)


Well said...!

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Dec 22, 2017 07:45:41   #
johnbhome2 Loc: Wyoming, Michigan
 
If Adobes business model works for you that's great, use it and shut up. If it doesn't work for you, don't use it and shut up. Can we now go on to something pertinent and useful instead of arguing about this bull crap. To each his own! Time to grow up and act like adults!

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Dec 22, 2017 07:46:05   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
dcampbell52 wrote:
Before you make bold statements (Like Adobe holding your photos hostage) you need relook at how the package works. It works identically to the older versions of Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop. All images are stored (in their original RAW/NEF/JPG or whatever) state on your C: D: or what ever local drive you decide. All of your sidecars and adjustments are also stored locally. YOU HAVE ACCESS TO ALL OF YOUR PHOTOS just as before. What you lose access to is the ability to make adjustments and corrections to those image in an Adobe environment. I can still open everything in Nikon Capture NX, Nikon View NX, Portrait Pro or ANY of my other photo manipulation programs. I just can NOT use the Adobe. The file structure is the same... I have an F: location that is a large drive with all of my photos arranged by dates (2015-1-12 for instance) with all of the photos taken on that date. I can go into any of those folders with a non-Adobe product and make adjustments. The only issues are that NONE of my Adobe adjustments will appear because they are in "untouchable" sidecars".
Yes, I had Adobe 5 (and still have it stored away) but because my Lightroom CC is ALWAYS up to date, I haven't needed it. It is installed on the D:drive of my computer and I can ALWAYS go back to it if I need to... And yes, it will not recognize any of the updated edits done by Lightrooms that are newer than that version but my Photos are NOT lost or even misplaced. Yes, I would lose a lot of the time that I spent editing those photos, but as we've all said, Adobe is NON-DESTRUCTIVE.

Oh, and by the way, having worked in the IT field (my degree is Electrical Engineering/Computer design and I worked from 1978 until Jan, 2002 in that field) I totally understand that you DON'T own any software. Try reading the EULA on them. You are only renting them and the producer makes no promises as to their functionality.
So, personally, (and as someone who paid $100 or so to Adorama or B&H, don't remember which, for Adobe Lightroom 4 and again for Lightroom 5 (hmmm that's roughly $200 or two years or so of Lightroom rent) before I subscribed to the cloud. Yes the Adobe Cloud for Photographers is $9.99 per month and yes it does come to $119.88 per year. But, what do you get for your $120 per year? You not only get Lightroom, but you ALSO get Photoshop, ACR and Camera RAW. You also get 20gb of storage on their cloud, constant updates to the latest and greatest, and the ability to install those programs on as many computers as you want, as long as only two (2) are logged into the Adobe Cloud at any given time. I have it installed on 2 desktops and 3 laptops. You can also use that 20gb of Cloud storage to pass your work from one computer to another for further work. This lets me pass photos to my wife if I want her to fine tune a photo that I've processed in Lightroom or she can pass something to me if she wants me to work it in Photoshop. The really big thing for me is that I can take my camera, laptop and equipment to a hotel or motel on an assignment, take the photos and upload them (I also have a large WD Cloud Chassis and drive) to my WD cloud (I could use the 20gb of Adobe Cloud but my WD is larger and is located in my house and keeps my Adobe clear for other things).
My point is that everyone panics about the software rental.. You really "ONLY RENTED" Windows 7, or APPLE (whatever version) Heck even the Apple Lisa OS was rented. Apple Dos, IBM DOS all were rented. You only seemed to "own" it. Try reading the EULA disclosure on the packaging. So, Adobe only formalized it and you are freeking over something that never changed. The only difference is that Adobe is giving you access to several thousand dollars worth of software for $120 per year and even more software for $50 per month or roughly $600 per year.
But, if you don't want it, fine... don't get it. But quit slandering, lying and/or giving false information and scare tactics to get others (who may not know either) to follow your lead.
If you have questions about Adobe and the Cloud...(please understand that the Cloud is a misnomer. The Cloud's main purpose is a delivery mechanism and NOT A STORAGE FOR ALL OF YOUR IMAGES AND WORK). All of your images, work, and Adobe files LIVE on your computer(s).
Before you make bold statements (Like Adobe holdin... (show quote)


I bought Lightroom 5 in 2015 Adobe never supported me, in fact I had to buy via Amazon, why that version? because I couldn't run version 6 on Osx Lion.

If anything it works better for me now since I know how to use it. It works with all of my digital cameras and works with affinity photo and the nik plugins. I don't need a new version to edit my photos. Also being a Pentax shooter even if I upgrade my camera to a K1 it uses DNG as a raw format so it should still work in Lightroom 5. I might have upgraded to 7 if it had been standalone, the upgrade from 1 to 5 to 6 is still $72 but there is only really the haze filter which might be handy to have but I have a haze filter in Affinity Photo which i can apply to my RAW files or to a 16 bit tiff exported from Lightroom.

I think one of the oldest products I use is Windows 2000 purely because it supports the scsi card that my Nikon Ls1000 negative scanner runs with. Its just a virtual machine and very fast on the hardware I use it with.

Where I work, they still install office 2007, still works fine.

I have no reason to give Adobe more money for an upgraded version, so why should I? Mature Software is great , it doesn't need upgrading.
Thats the real reason Adobe chooses to use the subscription model, it makes them a lot of money, makes me nothing...

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Dec 22, 2017 07:49:07   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Answer: Nothing.

Better question: How does the paid subscription to Photoshop Creative Cloud improve over the previous method of delivering updates and upgrades annually, at hundreds of dollars?

Before answering, others may wish to inform themselves of which programs Adobe includes in its monthly subscription fee of $9.99 per month.
The last time this citizen looked, the subscription included both the full Photoshop and Lightroom.

One cannot beat this offer with a stick.
JD750 wrote:
The Adobe Photographers Plan has reaped huge profits for Adobe (making a profit is what businesses are supposed to do) and gives better service to the customers in the form of real timrbtyñ. Customer costs are about the same as buying paid uldates.

What is not to like?

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Dec 22, 2017 08:02:34   #
Stephan G
 
rook2c4 wrote:
It's not that I fear subscription software, but rather that I simply resent it. A clever way to suck more money out of the software users.


Add to that, the product does not have to work on its own sufficiently to be sold to the marketplace. The program can be released (something about that term) in a "fingers-crossed" form with the idea that bugs can be addressed in the next month's rent. Or the following month's rent. The lease form allows for the earlier release that may not get the beta-test stage. "Don't worry about that wheel coming off. We'll have it figured out down the road."

We are getting toll lanes built in the USA with guaranteed profits for even as much as fifty years forward, backed up by tax funds. Thus Photo processing is not the only industry the idea of leasing is applied.

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