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CAMERA CONUNDRUM!
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Nov 12, 2017 21:51:35   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
Mochaman wrote:
factory referb with warranty is enticing, but I'm still weary on the camera's "mileage", number of owners, flood damage, etc... is there a "CameraFax"? :-\

Most of the trusted vendors [A,B,C and K] of refurbished cameras only give a 3 month warranty - Cameta is the exception at 1 year. I have bought my cameras new for similar reasons. Technology does not take kindly to abuse, although a Nikon factory refurbished camera ought to be like new. On the other hand, my lenses are 1 refurbished directly purchased from Nikon and the others pre-owned [I deal with B&H and Adorama]. I have nothing against new lenses, but wanting the best I can afford, I have gone that route to get good/better glass. Several more lenses on my wish list, waiting for the right time to have my wishes come true!

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Nov 13, 2017 11:21:53   #
dyximan
 
Mochaman wrote:
Hi ALL,
I am new to this forum, done much reading although have made a few posts – thank you for the wealth of information, the gift of sharing your combined knowledge, experiences and passions!

Being an ‘amateur re-tread’ – someone who’s been in and out of this hobby (livelyhood for others) now retired and willing to start again.
My first camera was an Army PX purchased - Mamiya-Sekor 1000DTL, today I am looking at two cameras, Nikon D-500 and Canon 7D – MKII.
To this end I look to this forum – not to decide for me, but to add to/ provide a ‘tipping point’ for my final decision.
Not a professional and not able to spend $5K+ to snap (in order of priority) wildlife, action and land/cityscaping photos, my choices have been narrowed down to these two, non FF cameras and lens families.

Here’s what I know (or think I do):
•Both cameras are ‘closely’ matched in specs, with Nikon D500 newer and having slightly better resolution capable of providing a sharper image (?), and Nikon has a higher ISO range (more noise)??!!

•Lenses for consideration are 18-200mm and 200-500mm. Tests and user’s results garnished from this forum and various links indicate both manufacturers produce comparable quality lenses at comparable prices- I hope to obtain the widest overlapping focal ranges with the least amount of equipment to carry around.

•Both have Wi-Fi ability: Nikon’s is built in, Canon requires a card slot and external adapter. I want to remotely see and snap the subject appearing in the viewfinder

•Nikon has an articulating, touch screen - Canon does not…. I feel both features are assets

•Regardless of choice, I must “RTFM” to gain command of the multitude of features as well as the confidence to know how to use & apply them. I am in awe of so many high quality photos that I see so often on this forum!

I am leaning toward Nikon D-500 for a few reasons, but my tipping point is – of all things – the wi-fi feature as I want to shoot in raw and jpeg, but NOT at the expense of an SD slot for wi-fi.
However, I’m uncertain if wi-fi feature of both cameras performs as I believe - Ability to 1) transfer/share photos to phone and beyond, 2) remotely view and snap the subject.
Wi-fi is a key consideration.... but, not at the expense of the 'end product'.... hence conundrum.

So, I’m turning my research/ beliefs/ assumptions and subsequent questions over to you all:
Am I in the ball park – have I correctly dissected the technical information properly?
Based on my beliefs that both cameras are somewhat/closely match optically and feature-wise, what have I failed to consider?

At the end of the day, I’m not looking for, nor desire a Nikon-Canon bashing contest – I realize both manufacturers have dedicated ‘camps’…. I’m looking for that ‘tipping point’ – if it exists.

Sorry for the long post.
Paul Winter
Hi ALL, br I am new to this forum, done much re... (show quote)


I have rented both of the above mentioned cameras and the one thing I think you may have forgotten to mention or may not be as much of a concern is the burst rate and the buffer. Although the frames per second is relatively close the Canon has a much smaller buffer 20 to 30 photos before it begins to slow down where as the Nikon pushes 200. Also is your concern about the Wi-Fi to be able to transfer to your phone while out and about, or can you wait to get home put them on your computer and transfer them that way.

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Nov 13, 2017 11:51:03   #
Don W-37 Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
 
Hi,
I had a 7D in the past. Nice camera and had a flash. But was too heavy for my wife, so I got a Nikon D7100 with a Tamron 28 - 300. I've been happy with both - but I'm not a pixel peeper!

I bought a FF Nikon D750 and love it. Actually slightly less than the D500 and has a flash. I got the Nikon 24 - 120, f4 "kit" lens which I have been quite happy with. I use a Nikon 28 - 300 as my travel lens.

I kept the D7100 for back-up & for my wife to use.

Renting first is a good idea. Both great cameras, so you really can't go wrong.
Good luck,
Don

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Nov 13, 2017 15:12:51   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Hi Paul,

You sound like an experienced shooter who can .....


-


Alan, WOW!!
Thank you for this most comprehensive, detailed post!

Judging by your post and personal equipment 'laundry list' (me thinks you own a camera store!), you certainly have quite a bit of experience and equipment knowledge.

“I sound like….” Well… more like a WIP… the more I read these posts, the more research I need to do - including expand my horizon – vis a vis more cam models and hands on. It has always been obvious (to me) ‘one size fits all’ just does not apply … to neither cameras nor lenses, regardless of brand.
I watched a T Northrup video (recommended by poster ‘gessman’) re: Canon vs Nikon on bodies and lenses - I’m blown away sooooo much detail and info.

Thoughts:
• While APS-C sensor lenses are cheaper/lighter - this decision is costly if/when I decide to go FF
• WiFi… IMHO most useful for visual rem ctrl of cam shutter vs typical (blind) control with rem shutter release. I don’t want to txfr photos with it – to time consuming. However I want to share jpeg capture or two with fam/friends via email or SMS message vs “download –attach-send” (no facebook/twitter/instagram). I realize wifi will also eat battery power… no free lunch!
• Card slots…. Must have two free for raw + ? file types
• Nikon products do appear to be more expensive – hence my original preference for Canon
• Agree 100% on expecting too much from 18-200mm wide range zoom
• IS…. Yeah Baby!
• Hands on – yes… availability in Wilmington, NC is another issue….
• Macro… eventually…. I do like nature, and ….. “Some of the best things in life come in small packages” - so says my 5 foot wife!
• At the end of the day – camera/lens combo that provide the most accurate reproduction of the subject matter (within a given $$$ budget).
• Dynamic range/sharpness/burst rate-buffer size/AF points, continuous AF, f/8 / lens quality – focus breathing
• Devil in the details!

Thank you for sharing!

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Nov 13, 2017 15:18:22   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
dyximan wrote:
I have rented both of the above mentioned cameras and the one thing I think you may have forgotten to mention or may not be as much of a concern is the burst rate and the buffer. Although the frames per second is relatively close the Canon has a much smaller buffer 20 to 30 photos before it begins to slow down where as the Nikon pushes 200. Also is your concern about the Wi-Fi to be able to transfer to your phone while out and about, or can you wait to get home put them on your computer and transfer them that way.
I have rented both of the above mentioned cameras ... (show quote)


Thanks..... this has been pointed out to me by others as well.. and it is quite important when trying to capture wildlife/action subjects.

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Nov 14, 2017 11:42:46   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
dyximan wrote:
I have rented both of the above mentioned cameras and the one thing I think you may have forgotten to mention or may not be as much of a concern is the burst rate and the buffer. Although the frames per second is relatively close the Canon has a much smaller buffer 20 to 30 photos before it begins to slow down where as the Nikon pushes 200. Also is your concern about the Wi-Fi to be able to transfer to your phone while out and about, or can you wait to get home put them on your computer and transfer them that way.
I have rented both of the above mentioned cameras ... (show quote)


Hi Dyximan,
Burst rate and buffer - you are absolutely correct and several others have said the same - THANK YOU! Easily overlooked by an amateur(moi), this spec is the primary reason for buying a fast burst rate in the first place... DUH!
WiFi- limited and IMHO excessively power hungry. My primary reason - to remotely monitor subject area and trigger shutter. Transfer pics to phone for sharing - limited, transfer files - no.
My knowledge base is growing - important items that are patently obvious to those in the know, had escaped me... but you can teach this 'old dog' new tricks..... eventually.
I asked to be 'enlightened' - the contributors to this forum, like yourself, have certainly done that! My next step is to find a local establishment to view and narrow down various models.
thanks........

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Nov 14, 2017 11:49:20   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
Quick note. I can turn Wi-fi off on my 80D to conserve the battery.

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Nov 14, 2017 13:07:41   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
PHRubin wrote:
Quick note. I can turn Wi-fi off on my 80D to conserve the battery.


Thanks.... I'll be sure to check if Nikon D500 can do the same - the ability to turn on/off wi-fi should be a non issue... especially if battery life is important (DUH!!).... but stranger things have happened.

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Nov 15, 2017 19:18:00   #
dyximan
 
Mochaman wrote:
Hi Dyximan,
Burst rate and buffer - you are absolutely correct and several others have said the same - THANK YOU! Easily overlooked by an amateur(moi), this spec is the primary reason for buying a fast burst rate in the first place... DUH!
WiFi- limited and IMHO excessively power hungry. My primary reason - to remotely monitor subject area and trigger shutter. Transfer pics to phone for sharing - limited, transfer files - no.
My knowledge base is growing - important items that are patently obvious to those in the know, had escaped me... but you can teach this 'old dog' new tricks..... eventually.
I asked to be 'enlightened' - the contributors to this forum, like yourself, have certainly done that! My next step is to find a local establishment to view and narrow down various models.
thanks........
Hi Dyximan, br Burst rate and buffer - you are... (show quote)

I have always been a big fan of renting and have done so through borrowlenses. It gives me an opportunity to try each and the difference between four days and a week rental is very little pricewise. but you can learn a great deal get a feel for the camera. Also I found a YouTube or video about Camera prior to my rental so I could understand if dials and functions. Made it easier to use when I got it in hand, and I could practice a bit before I took it out for my trial run.

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Nov 15, 2017 20:10:17   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
dyximan wrote:
I have always been a big fan of renting and have done so through borrowlenses. It gives me an opportunity to try each and the difference between four days and a week rental is very little pricewise. but you can learn a great deal get a feel for the camera. Also I found a YouTube or video about Camera prior to my rental so I could understand if dials and functions. Made it easier to use when I got it in hand, and I could practice a bit before I took it out for my trial run.


dyximan,
Thanks, I will check out your suggestions.
AFTER visiting the only local brick and mortar camera store within 150 miles of Wilmington, NC, the owner redirected me to the local Best Buy which just revamped it's camera section - I found a Nikon D500 and Canon 80D (no 7D MII yet). With no 'allegiance' to either brand, I felt Nikon had a slightly better feel in my hands and to the controls. I could go with either body, however Nikon's specs edge out Canon 7D.
Weighing all the information from these posts with several video blogs by Northrup, Matt Granger, Steve Perry and others, I feel the Nikon D500 will be my choice.
My focus on internal wifi - from either brand was - as Rob (rmalarz) put it (paraphrasing)- "had nothing to do with the photographic capabilities of the camera itself".... end of story- concentrate on the important stuff - echoed by many.
The last time I spent time in a 'real' camera store was 1988 - the original 47st Photo in NYC - so after 29 years w/o handling any camera of substance, I'll be overwhelmed regardless of what I choose at this level. Difference now, I have the time and willingness to work through it .... and I'll have a lot of help.

THANK YOU to the Ugly HedgeHog community for all your assistance and support. With Black Friday around the corner, followed by Christmas, you should be hearing from me!

-Mochaman

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Nov 15, 2017 20:22:24   #
dyximan
 
Mochaman wrote:
dyximan,
Thanks, I will check out your suggestions.
AFTER visiting the only local brick and mortar camera store within 150 miles of Wilmington, NC, the owner redirected me to the local Best Buy which just revamped it's camera section - I found a Nikon D500 and Canon 80D (no 7D MII yet). With no 'allegiance' to either brand, I felt Nikon had a slightly better feel in my hands and to the controls. I could go with either body, however Nikon's specs edge out Canon 7D.
Weighing all the information from these posts with several video blogs by Northrup, Matt Granger, Steve Perry and others, I feel the Nikon D500 will be my choice.
My focus on internal wifi - from either brand was - as Rob (rmalarz) put it (paraphrasing)- "had nothing to do with the photographic capabilities of the camera itself".... end of story- concentrate on the important stuff - echoed by many.
The last time I spent time in a 'real' camera store was 1988 - the original 47st Photo in NYC - so after 29 years w/o handling any camera of substance, I'll be overwhelmed regardless of what I choose at this level. Difference now, I have the time and willingness to work through it .... and I'll have a lot of help.

THANK YOU to the Ugly HedgeHog community for all your assistance and support. With Black Friday around the corner, followed by Christmas, you should be hearing from me!

-Mochaman
dyximan, br Thanks, I will check out your suggest... (show quote)

I too am probably going to buy the D500 here soon. For me primarily because of its superior buffer capabilities over the others, as I enjoy birding. And I find that when I do share my photos it's very seldom from the camera directly

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Nov 15, 2017 20:27:18   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
dyximan wrote:
I too am probably going to buy the D500 here soon. For me primarily because of its superior buffer capabilities over the others, as I enjoy birding. And I find that when I do share my photos it's very seldom from the camera directly


Good luck to you as well. We'll be sharing notes although my learning curve will be much steeper..... RTFM!
Do you use LR for post?

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Nov 15, 2017 21:02:54   #
dyximan
 
I'm not very good at posts go straight from JPEG's I have light room and Photoshop but don't really know how to use them yet

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Nov 15, 2017 21:24:58   #
Mochaman Loc: Wilmington, NC
 
dyximan wrote:
I'm not very good at posts go straight from JPEG's I have light room and Photoshop but don't really know how to use them yet


Well... that makes 2 of us! :-/

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