Please give me feedback on my idea all are welcome
Aug 19, 2017 09:52:28 #
In the first place, because digital is so easy to shoot many persons owning digital cameras believe that they can do weddings. You are saying that many of those that have come to you do not even have learned the basics of photography so imagine what they will do during a ceremony or the reception. I bet NONE of them know how to use flash properly.
Your interest in building a portfolio once again is something I praise and admire. I see nothing wrong shooting a few weddings for free because in referrals alone you should pick up some business like you should do decently well selling the pictures.
The idea of teaching is not a bad one and could be very profitable. You have a great interest in learning more and to me that means a winner. It is always possible to find a good wedding photographer in your area who could use your services (for free) so that you can help him or her while you learn more.
I looked at the pictures you have posted and although during most part of the ceremony posing occurs spontaneously in some of those where you had to pose the couple you made some technical mistakes although I am sure the couple will never noticed.
In the first shot I think that the bride should be laughing too. I do not do weddings any more but it was a favorite to bring the face of the groom to her face while she was looking, without laughing, to the camera. With overweight brides it is very important not to let the bride step on her feet with equal distribution of the weight and I mean more weight should be placed on one leg, usually the right one and NEVER straight to the camera but slightly turned. You did a great job with the corsach.
With No. 4, I prefer to have the couple closer. The following one shows amputation and you know that is a no-no. Was it possible to photograph the cake indoors?
Never shoot the dorsum of the hands in women posing, that is not very flattering and whenever possible curve the fingers, especially those facing the camera.
Obviously there is more and I am sure that the wedding photographers here can do a much better job than I can do.
Good luck!
Your interest in building a portfolio once again is something I praise and admire. I see nothing wrong shooting a few weddings for free because in referrals alone you should pick up some business like you should do decently well selling the pictures.
The idea of teaching is not a bad one and could be very profitable. You have a great interest in learning more and to me that means a winner. It is always possible to find a good wedding photographer in your area who could use your services (for free) so that you can help him or her while you learn more.
I looked at the pictures you have posted and although during most part of the ceremony posing occurs spontaneously in some of those where you had to pose the couple you made some technical mistakes although I am sure the couple will never noticed.
In the first shot I think that the bride should be laughing too. I do not do weddings any more but it was a favorite to bring the face of the groom to her face while she was looking, without laughing, to the camera. With overweight brides it is very important not to let the bride step on her feet with equal distribution of the weight and I mean more weight should be placed on one leg, usually the right one and NEVER straight to the camera but slightly turned. You did a great job with the corsach.
With No. 4, I prefer to have the couple closer. The following one shows amputation and you know that is a no-no. Was it possible to photograph the cake indoors?
Never shoot the dorsum of the hands in women posing, that is not very flattering and whenever possible curve the fingers, especially those facing the camera.
Obviously there is more and I am sure that the wedding photographers here can do a much better job than I can do.
Good luck!
Aug 19, 2017 09:57:56 #
toughmandave
Loc: The Villages, Florida
Seems to me you are off to an awesome start. Great pictures. Honestly, if I was about to get married I would certainly consider you as our photographer. My wife loved your pictures too. Kelbyone.com is a must for any photographer with hundreds of professional training videos. Scott is in Oldsmar, FL., only 70 miles from my house. Good luck on your new venture. You are doing very well.
Aug 19, 2017 10:44:02 #
Start with free or cheap baby shoots. That will give you an in to book the wedding later. 
Aug 19, 2017 11:09:42 #
First thought was about the H1B workers being brought over and the current workers are "Training their replacement"
Your idea sounds good but two points I see are: You're building an expectation for free, or cheap, wedding photos in the area, Current full service wedding photographers will not be happy as they go out of business. Secondly you're training people to replace you.
Your idea sounds good but two points I see are: You're building an expectation for free, or cheap, wedding photos in the area, Current full service wedding photographers will not be happy as they go out of business. Secondly you're training people to replace you.
Aug 19, 2017 11:27:33 #
To get started I did the same thing. I posted on craigs list, shot some engagement photos. My first wedding was for a young lady that said she couldnt afford
a photographer. The reception had 350 people, her husband was a doctor. She was a computer programmer. I felt like I was taken. They gave me $500. at the end of the night. I'm shooting a wedding in 2 weeks. I have 2 young ladies that will be shooting with me. They are nervous as hell and have more questions then the bride. The good thing is both know photography but neither have shot a wedding.
We have a local photography computer group. when I posted there asking if anyone wanted to help. I got a LOT of response. I asked them a lot of questions and it seems the people that tried to make themselves look good or the board knew nothing about photography. Not that I know a lot but many knew almost nothing.
So yes you are on to something but everyone will try and get something for nothing.
I stopped doing the free ones. It was a start, but the only people it got me was more people that wanted free shoots. If they wanted to pay they said they would go to a professional Photographer....
Not to mention the emails I got from photographers complaining I was stealing their business.
One last thing and most important of all. They had to sign a contract. It started they were getting the services for free. Therefor there was no guarantee to quality or quantity of photos. It said a lot more but u get the idea.
a photographer. The reception had 350 people, her husband was a doctor. She was a computer programmer. I felt like I was taken. They gave me $500. at the end of the night. I'm shooting a wedding in 2 weeks. I have 2 young ladies that will be shooting with me. They are nervous as hell and have more questions then the bride. The good thing is both know photography but neither have shot a wedding.
We have a local photography computer group. when I posted there asking if anyone wanted to help. I got a LOT of response. I asked them a lot of questions and it seems the people that tried to make themselves look good or the board knew nothing about photography. Not that I know a lot but many knew almost nothing.
So yes you are on to something but everyone will try and get something for nothing.
I stopped doing the free ones. It was a start, but the only people it got me was more people that wanted free shoots. If they wanted to pay they said they would go to a professional Photographer....
Not to mention the emails I got from photographers complaining I was stealing their business.
One last thing and most important of all. They had to sign a contract. It started they were getting the services for free. Therefor there was no guarantee to quality or quantity of photos. It said a lot more but u get the idea.
Aug 19, 2017 13:22:22 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
fotoman150 wrote:
...I put a post on craigslist for free wedding photography so I could quickly rebuild my portfolio....
Sorry, but that's just about the worst possible thing you could do. Wouldn't be surprised if you're out of business within a year.
For one, NEVER EVER give away your work for free. Set reasonable rates, based upon proper cost of doing business analysis and market research. Then, if you wish, offer discounts for introductory or portfolio building shots, in exchange for a signed model release. But don't ever put yourself out there as "the FREE photographer". You won't be considered a "pro" and your clients will mentally assign a value of $0 to your work. Once you establish yourself that way, it's almost impossible to start charging a profitable fee for your services.
Plus, Craigslist is just about the worst place possible to advertise. Shoppers there are mostly "bottom feeders"... people looking for the absolute cheapest service. They are by far the most likely to bounce a check, complain and ask for refunds, or take you to court and sue you when you don't meet some unrealistic standard! In addition, many places CL is absolutely flooded with "wannabe" wedding photogs tightly gripping their Rebel T6s or D3200s and kit lenses, dreams of becoming a pro and with only their brother or sister's wedding in their portfolio.... and offering free, like you, or so low fees that they lose money on every event and will be going broke after a few weddings. Last time I looked on my local CL, there were 700 ads from wedding and event photographers!
Wedding photography, you probably already know, is one of the most difficult and demanding specializations. Your best bet is to get a job as a second shooter with an active, established, local wedding photographer. That way you can learn the market and any changes in the process from the inside, make a few $ with the least muss and fuss and avoid some of the initial hassles and pitfalls that come with running your own business. Do you have a business license? Insurance? Cost of doing business analysis? Marketing plan? Accountant? Knowledge of sales tax requirements? Got your contracts and model releases written? Yada... yada... yada!
As an experienced photographer, you shouldn't have much trouble finding a gig as a second shooter. I'd recommend being up front with anyone you approach, that you plan to eventually do your own thing.... a well-established and confident pro won't be very concerned about possible, future competition... Or you might even find a partnership that works better for both of you.
Aug 19, 2017 13:30:07 #
advocate1982 wrote:
But that is exactly what he is looking for. And then hoping they are dumb enough to pay him to teach them.
Yes! You got it! LOL
Aug 19, 2017 13:46:18 #
amfoto1 wrote:
Sorry, but that's just about the worst possible th... (show quote)
You missed his entire thesis. Give away the photography to the brides, charge the second shooters for the privilege of working for him. So while the bride is getting it for free - he is still making money from the second shooters that are willing to pay for the experience. A real life workshop so to speak.
To be clear, personally, I think this is one of the stupidest ideas I have seen come down the pike, and the fact that there are so many here that think it is a reasonable proposition, says a ton about the lack of professionalism that exists in the industry.
Aug 19, 2017 14:39:15 #
cooper2
Loc: Norman Oklahoma
I really like your idea. You are exploring creative solutions to your questions. I like how you are willing to include others and are embracing the possibility of teaching others. Sounds like a win win for everyone involved. You are stepping out there and just doing it. Learning as you go. That encourages me in my approach to photography. Sometimes I overthink it.
I read that some raise the question of pricing. I think starting out with low prices makes sense. As you gain experience I have no doubt that you will raise your prices. You may even come to the point where you feel this market is no longer of interest to you. But it may still provide a learning opportunity to those you are teaching. Maybe in time you take on a supervisory role. Your students possibly do most of the shooting. Your focus may move on to other markets. You sound like you have a teachers heart. That is an amazing gift. It may turn out to be a real blessing to you.
Regarding contracts and liability; you can do omissions and errors. Just make sure of what is covered. It would need to cover you and anyone helping you at the event. I think it may be of real consideration especially since you have others helping you. It may be of value to explore how your state handles payment to others as contract help or employees or students. You may need to learn about the rules of workman's comp in your area. I ran into as I was woking on a public arts contract.
On the contract, one of the things you said was you want the portfolio shot. You wondered about including it in the contract. What if you request the portfolio shot and offer a discount for those that provide it? Maybe that provides them an incentive to help you accomplish this. You can do this by increasing your upfront cost by little bit. Maybe 25-35 dollars than maybe you offer a 35.00 discount. Just wondering.
I think the most important thing about the contract is it is a legal document showing that they have agreed to pay you for your services. And of course you are agreeing to provide a service. Think about clauses that cover the event of an illness. How would that be handled? What if the wedding does not happen. Is there a non refundable deposit. I wonder if you come up with a basic/standard contract that also allows for some specific requests from your clients and any requests you may have. Just make sure you carefully review the contract and each party understands what it contains. Do not assume people understand. You may need to include a page that reads I have read and understand Blah blah blah.
When you speak of your photos, please refrain from harsh criticism. Like they suck. You are honest about your desire to learn. You know that the photos have room for improvement. Speak more directly about what you want to learn. If you don't like the lighting point that out and ask about that. If you want better sharpness point that out and ask about that, etc etc. If you are not sure what is missing say that. Criticism just for the sake of criticism is not generally very helpful.
I hope you share again what you are learning and how it is working.
Thanks
I read that some raise the question of pricing. I think starting out with low prices makes sense. As you gain experience I have no doubt that you will raise your prices. You may even come to the point where you feel this market is no longer of interest to you. But it may still provide a learning opportunity to those you are teaching. Maybe in time you take on a supervisory role. Your students possibly do most of the shooting. Your focus may move on to other markets. You sound like you have a teachers heart. That is an amazing gift. It may turn out to be a real blessing to you.
Regarding contracts and liability; you can do omissions and errors. Just make sure of what is covered. It would need to cover you and anyone helping you at the event. I think it may be of real consideration especially since you have others helping you. It may be of value to explore how your state handles payment to others as contract help or employees or students. You may need to learn about the rules of workman's comp in your area. I ran into as I was woking on a public arts contract.
On the contract, one of the things you said was you want the portfolio shot. You wondered about including it in the contract. What if you request the portfolio shot and offer a discount for those that provide it? Maybe that provides them an incentive to help you accomplish this. You can do this by increasing your upfront cost by little bit. Maybe 25-35 dollars than maybe you offer a 35.00 discount. Just wondering.
I think the most important thing about the contract is it is a legal document showing that they have agreed to pay you for your services. And of course you are agreeing to provide a service. Think about clauses that cover the event of an illness. How would that be handled? What if the wedding does not happen. Is there a non refundable deposit. I wonder if you come up with a basic/standard contract that also allows for some specific requests from your clients and any requests you may have. Just make sure you carefully review the contract and each party understands what it contains. Do not assume people understand. You may need to include a page that reads I have read and understand Blah blah blah.
When you speak of your photos, please refrain from harsh criticism. Like they suck. You are honest about your desire to learn. You know that the photos have room for improvement. Speak more directly about what you want to learn. If you don't like the lighting point that out and ask about that. If you want better sharpness point that out and ask about that, etc etc. If you are not sure what is missing say that. Criticism just for the sake of criticism is not generally very helpful.
I hope you share again what you are learning and how it is working.
Thanks
Aug 19, 2017 14:54:44 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
advocate1982 wrote:
You missed his entire thesis. b Give away the pho... (show quote)
No, I didn't miss it. I just think it's an absolutely terrible idea... the sort of thing that's largely ruined much of the business of professional photography.
I think a mentorship approach is fine. It's what I recommended and have even done some myself (though not wedding work).
It's the idea of giving away the photography that's really bad (or doing it too cheaply). I also don't like marketing one's work on Craigslist. I think that's just asking for trouble.
Truly mentoring someone should include helping them become business savvy... and if they ain't makin' a profit, they won't be in business very long! The vast majority of photography businesses will fail... and I'd wager that most of the time it's because of too much emphasis on photography, too little on the business side of the equation. Contracts, model releases, licenses, insurance, taxes and everything else.... All have to be done well and properly, long before the first photograph can be taken. If not making this aspect of the work really clear to "wannabes"... I'd feel I was doing them a real disservice.
Giving a client 2500 images seems very excessive, too. I sometimes shoot as many as 5000 images in a day and have led seminars at multi-day events with a number of second shooter/students, ending up with over 20,000 images. Even just eliminating duplicates and accidental shots of one's toes, would probably cut that number in half!
A big part of good editing is knowing what to keep and what to throw out! I would never present a bride with more than 200 or 300... maybe 400 to 500 proofs max... only the best work from the day, after rapid editing, straightening and tweaking. There is such a thing as "too much". That was brought home to me by an event organizer who fired a photographer for taking too many images (9000+... clearly "pray and spray") and posting them all online with little or no editing or sorting, forcing the organizer's customers... the event participants... to do all their own sorting and editing.
I took 3500 images at an event last Sunday. So far I've sorted, edited and uploaded 999 of them to 16 different galleries online (one for each different individual who participated in the event).... and I may add a couple or a few hundred more. About 1/3 to 1/2 is what I average keeping and showing to customers, after culling the good from the bad, eliminating dupes, closed eyes, weird expressions... and the few inevitable photographer errors.
Aug 19, 2017 15:43:28 #
fotoman150 wrote:
I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to... (show quote)
Just being able to take excellent pictures will not make you a wedding photographer. You have to be a quick thinker and be able to take FULL CHARGE of all aspects of the wedding, posing, moving every around to your liking with out ticking off Aunt Mary. Best place to be through the wedding. You have to have your check list to ensure all the pre agreed settings and people are not missed. You as wedding photographer you need to have the Skills of many different photographers not just spray and pray. You need to be a Portrait, outdoor, sports and event to name a few. Not an easy way to make a living but life isn't easy. Never be afraid to charge a fair price. Many hours are spent after the wedding to meet the agreed deadline to deliver a quality product.
Aug 19, 2017 16:00:25 #
fotoman150 wrote:
Thanks that's the kind of honesty I need. br br T... (show quote)
Wow you need to teach Lightroom and photoshop. You can PP 4 photos a minute to a quality that a Bride and her Mother and Mother in law will approve of. You are Superman
Aug 19, 2017 16:20:45 #
fotoman150 wrote:
I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to... (show quote)
Seems like a novel idea, and if you are enjoying the experience, both the photography and teaching aspect of it while honing your skills, why not. A couple of questions, one is how are you presenting the photographs to the bride and groom? Do you sit down with them at some point after and give a digital presentation? When they select photos how do present them with copies? Both would seem to have you incurring some expense, unless they have agreed to reimburse you for your expenses in printing or giving them a medium to view them on, in the future.
Teaching newcomers to the world photography I only see as a positive and having the free help probably is not a bad thing. There is the danger of incurring the ire of local professionals if they see you as competition, though from what you described, your clientele so far would not be shopping for their services anyway.
In the long run, it is seems to be a workable endeavor, though with some drawbacks as voiced by others in previous posts. Good luck with it.
Aug 19, 2017 16:38:54 #
PGHphoto
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
fotoman150 wrote:
I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to... (show quote)
My only suggestion addresses that you don't have a delivery mechanism or strategy to review and give the end results of the engagement. You could produce good skilled photographers but then what ? Since the end result is what the client will be looking for, I suggest you also address the final product delivery. All electronic files - most clients in my experience want some type of hardcopy so you need to address how to get prints to clients. All prints - many want to put the results on facebook or other social media so specific issues surrounding that need to be discussed. What about review for the final product ? Send reduced quality files - many are satisfied with those and won't pay for more once they receive them. Establishing a shoot fee and then price of the product is the way to go.
I agree with some here that 2500 shots is too way too many for the client to decide over. Distilling to a third (or less) of that would be better for the client and for you in terms of post processing. Make sure you have/deliver the requested shots and ask AFTER the shoot if there is something that they wanted but forgot to ask. You can cull through the images and see if you can deliver something they thought was missing. Talk about customer satisfaction in that situation ! They would be thrilled and think all that much more highly of your product.
Otherwise, I think you have a solid idea and encourage you to run with it. Don't expect much support from the other wedding pros though as you are cutting deeply into their livelihood. Right now the hot thing is video and especially drone video of outdoor events. I would encourage you to do some learning along those lines as well to make sure you are forward looking as you build your portfolio.
Aug 19, 2017 16:44:31 #
I am not a Pro, I Love Photography for Fun and to Appreciate the Beauty in the World around Me....I still think You should be getting paid and from the looks of that Wedding I cannot imagine them not having the Money to pay You something,,,,still your idea is interesting,,,at least to me although I would never do it....I like your Photos I downloaded all ten and here goes....1. I personally like the photo and the diagonal 2. The Highlights are blown out in the upper left corner and around the edges of the lower right photo or was that intentional ? 3. Very Nice 4. As someone else mentioned what are the bricks or blocks of wood doing on the dock should have been removed or Photoshopped out. 5. Sorry Out of Focus,,,Intentional or not ? 6. Not something I would want but maybe the Bride would. 7. I would close the blind hard to properly expose inside and outside through a window or even better find a more beautiful setting to photograph the dress,,,a beautiful Piano or beautiful brass bed etc. 8. Heads cut off in middle photo and bottom photo not square to the world. 9. As someone else said bad angle with beam cutting a diagonal across photo and close up of rings out of focus,,,again intentional or not ? 10. I would have pulled in more tightly on the cake itself or cropped in more tightly in post processing. Lastly I Salute You and all of You who shoot Event Photography You only have one chance to get it right....
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