Please give me feedback on my idea all are welcome (Page 2): Have them sign a release that states, buried in the text, this is a fee, no payment gig, and therefore you are not...

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

fotoman150 wrote:

Thanks for the input guys. Any drawbacks? Go ahead and hit me. I can take it. =-) How do you make them smiley faces?

Have them sign a release that states, buried in the text, this is a fee, no payment gig, and therefore you are not responsible if their precious recorded memories are not to their liking. Make the Mother of the Bride initial it as well.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

fotoman150 wrote:

.......I would never attempt this if the brides were paying customers, but since they are small weddings where the bride and groom are not paying, it gives me latitude that I wouldn't have otherwise.

How do you feel about that?

It sounds like a win/win/win situation. The important thing is you're targeting non-paying clientele so you're not doing any pros out of any business. And if you're not expecting it to make you lots of money you're not setting yourself up for disappointment. Congratulations on your initiative.

erinjay64

If you work for strangers free, it must be because your work is worthless. That is what most people will think. Do your own photography, and charge for it. If you want to shoot for free do so only for close friends / relatives for whom the shoot will be your wedding gift. Their friends, etc, who see your great photos (if they are great), and will be willing to pay you a reasonable sum to do their weddings, babies, etc.

SueScott Loc: Hammondsville, Ohio

Personally, I'm not interested in shooting weddings, but your scheme of basically apprenticing photographers sounds wonderful! I haven't been able to find any formal classes in my area - not even at the colleges - and have had to learn piecemeal through books and videos, a very inefficient way of doing it. Your students have a great resource in what you are doing!

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

fotoman150 wrote:

I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to get started again. My portfolio is outdated, so I put a post on craigslist for free wedding photography so I could quickly rebuild my portfolio.

What I got was 8 brides who were not going to hire a pro because of budget issues, or had small backyard weddings with no wedding party. One was having a small wedding and a much bigger celebration in the future. So I got my foot in the door for a paid gig there.

So the next thing I wanted was a second shooter just to cover the weddings from all angles, So again I took to craigslist to see if there were any budding photographers that needed to also build a portfolio for wedding images. What I got was several people who had websites of images, some of which were quite good, others that showed they were shooting a lot in program.

So I wanted to know where they were in their knowledge so I asked them basic questions like what are the three things that effect exposure. Only one could answer correctly, yet all said they could shoot in full manual. LOL

So I have all these guys that come to weddings with me to shoot, whom I gave crash courses in shooting manual, and they shot weddings with me and did a fairly decent job, but they ask really basic questions like there is a hair in my viewfinder, how do I get it out? It's on the mirror just use the air bulb here to blow it off. Then clean your sensor. Do I photograph the shoes next to each other or jumbled up? Do I clean up the room when the bride is getting ready or show the mess in the pics? Why won't my shutter speed go any higher than 1/250? You have your flash turned on and the max sych is 1/250. I'm educating them.

So I think I have found a niche here. On one hand I have brides who can't afford a pro. Lots of them out there. And I have newbie photographers who need to learn the basics of photography and create a portfolio.

Why not find brides who have the small weddings and get the newbie photographers to pay me to teach them basic photography and allow them to come to the weddings as a second shooter. The brides have been overjoyed with the massive amounts of images (2,499 at the first wedding), that are, for the most part, in focus, properly exposed and with good expression and composition after I delete, color correct, lighten or darken, crop etc. And the second shooters are excited about learning from me and follow me from wedding to wedding.

Now I am by no means a world class photographer, but I know what a Compact flash card is. The last girl I had at a free wedding had never heard of it and never seen one until I showed her. Yet she had images online and had photographed family portraits on her own. There must be hundreds of these guys out there doing just the same. So I don't have to be an expert. Most successful photographers make money not because they have great skills, but because they are good businessmen anyway.

I figure I will sweeten the deal with a one year membership to KelbyOne at a reduced cost. They have group pricing. That would give them all the expert advice they could take in and the live shoots, like engagement, bridal and weddings they could do with me.

I'm thinking of this as a prelude to regaining a full schedule of paid weddings, but it may turn into a school for basic photography.

I'm already doing the school thing and not getting paid for it.

What am I missing here? Seems like opportunity knocking to me.

I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to... (show quote)

Good idea, go for it. Yes there will be bumps as you get the instruction proceedure down but over all a very good idea and a win for the bride and the new photographer as long as you do the wedding as well to ensure there are at least enough decent photos for the bride in case the novice screws it all up.

berchman Loc: South Central PA

fotoman150 wrote:

OK I'm really going out on a limb here and posting my first pics on UHH.

This is the first wedding of the season. I already know they suck but tell me again any way so I can learn. I have band-aids ready. LOL

I have photographed only one wedding for a friend and it was so stressful that I will never do that again. He was satisfied with the pictures, but I was not. Fortunately, another person was also taking pictures, so between the two of us my friend got a record of the modest occasion. I am a total amateur and my standards have been spoiled by the photographs of weddings I see in Rangefinder magazine. That said, why have you slanted photos #1 and 5? Did you think it somehow made them more dynamic? Your photo of the ring is out of focus and needs to be sharp. The wedding dress in front of the window is overpowered by the brightness behind it. Why is so much of the uninteresting landscape included in the photo of the couple on the dock? There are other comments that spring to mind, but I'll leave it to others to make them.

I have no issue with what you are doing. If it makes the wedding couples happy, that's good enough.

advocate1982

rook2c4 wrote:

Craigslist? There are better ways to find assistants who know what they are doing. In professional wedding photographer online communities there plenty of seasoned photographers looking for assignments. But on Craigslist you will get a lot of inexperienced wanna-be photographers who think simply owning a DSLR is all one really needs to shoot a wedding properly.

But that is exactly what he is looking for. And then hoping they are dumb enough to pay him to teach them.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

fotoman150 wrote:

OK I'm really going out on a limb here and posting my first pics on UHH.

This is the first wedding of the season. I already know they suck but tell me again any way so I can learn. I have band-aids ready. LOL

Someone already answered, but I will echo their feelings. I didn't really notice some of the points they raised until after reading their post, but going back, they are pretty obvious. My first look through, the biggest (by far!) thought was about the tilted photos... I don't see the point in that, and it just looks strange.

I am not a pro, but I have done a couple of weddings for friends (as an *extra* photographer, not *the* photographer). Apart from the obvious posed shots, the ones which seemed to go down best were shots of the real photographer taking the 'official' group pictures... For some reason, everyone loved those!

PH CIB

I am not a Pro,,,but I really like your Pictures,,,,You should be getting Paid for that kind of Work.....

rdubreuil Loc: Dummer, NH USA

Okay Fotoman, you asked for honest and that you could take it, so here goes...

When it comes to wedding photos, not a big fan of the Dutch Angle, not sure many people would be, it makes folks cock their heads or turn the picture when looking at it. Dutch angles have their place, just not in wedding photos. Then again that's personal taste, to each their own. As for the others in your list there are one or two good images like the bouquet shot but, there are others that need serious work. For example montage 1 lower right corner with the white vignette, the bride's dress is blown out with much of the detail lost and the bottom of her dress is cut off.

IMO, when you shoot images of the bride and groom alone together you need better subject separation from your backgrounds, better bokeh, make them stand out, it's their day. That's especially true for images of the bride by herself. The image of the wedding bands, focus missed the stones, your depth of field is actually running between the two rings. The image of the dress, is just meh, poor composition, part of the dress is cut off and the window isn't straight, just another snap shot. Montage 2, center right image, you did it again you cut off the brides dress and feet. Vantage points are really, really important too, during the vows for example; what's that giant thing slicing through the minister?

Last but not least, the image of the wedding cake, IMO is just awful, I know it's a simple cake and sitting on a log or stump but, you could have put some effort into making it look good, instead it's a snap shot of a cake on a stump. You've got your work cut out for you in this endeavor, I see more expense than income. I guess since these brides are getting them for free they can't complain but, seriously.

Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida

rdubreuil wrote:

Okay Fotoman, you asked for honest and that you co... (show quote)

Very fair and valid criticism. The images have many problems. Sorry, but true.

sb Loc: Florida's East Coast

It sounds like you have found a niche and are filling a need - AND keeping yourself busy. Hopefully it will pay the rent and keep gas in the car! Keep us up-to-date on how it is going.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

I have been close to "Arts & Crafts" for most of my life - the first thing I learnt was "Never Undersell your Craft". You are proposing to do both - the Photography and the Tuition. A recipe for disaster! proposing to undercut both photographers and tutors. Having seen your photos, which I presume you consider the best, it is a case of the blind leading the blind. As for the brides, if they can't afford it, they shouldn't get it - I'm sure that their friends and family would provide memory pics from their point and shoots - which might just be better than those you publish here. You asked for honesty!

GENorkus Loc: Washington Twp, Michigan

rgrenaderphoto wrote:

Have them sign a release that states, buried in the text, this is a fee, no payment gig, and therefore you are not responsible if their precious recorded memories are not to their liking. Make the Mother of the Bride initial it as well.

This is a must since there will be a relative or friend that will complain.

Also, I'd think you should get a release signed by the other "photographers".

About your 1st set of wedding pictures:

There is a time and place for angled pictures. The ones you posted aren't in the time or place. Probably would be best not to have any like that.

*(There was a person who specialized in that kind of picture by me and didn't last very long. It was a fad that came and went quickly although sometimes one will turn out pretty good.)

Being that you have someone to assist you, why not have them hold a light modifier or flash to brighten the brides face in a couple of the shots you posted. That would be great to show the newbies also.

Just saying.

Question: I think it's the 4th picture down, (kissing on the dock).
What are the circle of bricks for on the dock? (Behind the brides dress. At least they look like bricks.)

Elsiss Loc: Bayside, NY, Boynton Beach, Fl.

fotoman150 wrote:

I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to get started again. My portfolio is outdated, so I put a post on craigslist for free wedding photography so I could quickly rebuild my portfolio.

What I got was 8 brides who were not going to hire a pro because of budget issues, or had small backyard weddings with no wedding party. One was having a small wedding and a much bigger celebration in the future. So I got my foot in the door for a paid gig there.

So the next thing I wanted was a second shooter just to cover the weddings from all angles, So again I took to craigslist to see if there were any budding photographers that needed to also build a portfolio for wedding images. What I got was several people who had websites of images, some of which were quite good, others that showed they were shooting a lot in program.

So I wanted to know where they were in their knowledge so I asked them basic questions like what are the three things that effect exposure. Only one could answer correctly, yet all said they could shoot in full manual. LOL

So I have all these guys that come to weddings with me to shoot, whom I gave crash courses in shooting manual, and they shot weddings with me and did a fairly decent job, but they ask really basic questions like there is a hair in my viewfinder, how do I get it out? It's on the mirror just use the air bulb here to blow it off. Then clean your sensor. Do I photograph the shoes next to each other or jumbled up? Do I clean up the room when the bride is getting ready or show the mess in the pics? Why won't my shutter speed go any higher than 1/250? You have your flash turned on and the max sych is 1/250. I'm educating them.

So I think I have found a niche here. On one hand I have brides who can't afford a pro. Lots of them out there. And I have newbie photographers who need to learn the basics of photography and create a portfolio.

Why not find brides who have the small weddings and get the newbie photographers to pay me to teach them basic photography and allow them to come to the weddings as a second shooter. The brides have been overjoyed with the massive amounts of images (2,499 at the first wedding), that are, for the most part, in focus, properly exposed and with good expression and composition after I delete, color correct, lighten or darken, crop etc. And the second shooters are excited about learning from me and follow me from wedding to wedding.

Now I am by no means a world class photographer, but I know what a Compact flash card is. The last girl I had at a free wedding had never heard of it and never seen one until I showed her. Yet she had images online and had photographed family portraits on her own. There must be hundreds of these guys out there doing just the same. So I don't have to be an expert. Most successful photographers make money not because they have great skills, but because they are good businessmen anyway.

I figure I will sweeten the deal with a one year membership to KelbyOne at a reduced cost. They have group pricing. That would give them all the expert advice they could take in and the live shoots, like engagement, bridal and weddings they could do with me.

I'm thinking of this as a prelude to regaining a full schedule of paid weddings, but it may turn into a school for basic photography.

I'm already doing the school thing and not getting paid for it.

What am I missing here? Seems like opportunity knocking to me.

I haven't done weddings for awhile and I wanted to... (show quote)

Perhaps these free weddings can earn you a few bucks putting together an album? There are many types of albums available that you could put together if you were willing, for a fee. You could charge what the manufacturer charges you, then add an upcharge for your time. I wouldn't push it, but the bride and groom might inquire about that. It would cost a lot less money for them if they weren't paying you to shoot the wedding. Just my 2cents. Maybe just some quality printed 8x10's or 11x14's ?