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Aug 13, 2017 08:14:15   #
jaydoc
 
"Minutiae", not "menusha"

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Aug 13, 2017 09:10:18   #
wmurnahan Loc: Bloomington IN
 
Part of what you are seeing is that Leica is known for high contrast, sharpness, and color. Leica was the first to get the red light to focus on the same plan as the cyan and yellow light and continue to be a leader in the industry.

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Aug 13, 2017 09:54:54   #
foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC
 
The shot on the left is slightly overexposed....just check out the exposure of the trees on the left. The one on the right is much more properly exposed check out the sky. light versus dark. what is it you're trying to prove??? It's obvious to me that the shot on the left is poorly taken not counting the poor focusing. not a very fair comparison. in fact, it's a DUMB comparison

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Aug 13, 2017 09:57:17   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
anotherview wrote:
Let me please suggest you turn more of your attention to basic camera operation and to composition. Doing both will go more toward improving your photographs than does fretting over technical questions.


👍👍

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Aug 13, 2017 10:12:47   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
wmurnahan wrote:
Part of what you are seeing is that Leica is known for high contrast, sharpness, and color. Leica was the first to get the red light to focus on the same plan as the cyan and yellow light and continue to be a leader in the industry.


The "Leica" lenses they put on the Panasonic pocket cameras have no more contrast or sharpness than what you can expect from most other pocket cameras in comparable price range. Although they are good, they are not really special. It's just a licensing agreement between Panasonic and Leica to use the name, no more.

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Aug 13, 2017 10:51:30   #
SOLINA DAVE
 
truckster wrote:
And you got a few simple answers, and one much more detailed answer. Even though you asked the question, there are others here that might like to know a little more ... (that would be me, for one)

We see it here all the time, people get caught up with technical specs or what lens do I need to shoot "whatever" ... for us hobbyists, the best advice is just get out there and shoot with what you have.


I was just going to let it go, but when I saw Hal, and heard him asking, "just what do you think you're doing, Dave?", I had second thoughts.
First of all, without maybe going into a lot of detail, and assuming that I might be in the market for one of those little cameras, how do I know ahead of time, which camera may be most suitable for the type of picture taking that I will mainly be focusing on. And that is vast scenery shots. When I take that picture, I want it to be as vast in it's content as I can afford.
I'm 70 years old, and I've been taking pictures since my mom and dad bought me a Kodak Starflash, 60 years ago. I take good pictures. I get comments like, "Wow man!!! Nice shot!!! That's all I ever wanted, or needed. For me to achieve that level of noteriety, I have to do the best I can. And I always try to do the best I can, while attempting to deal somewhat effectively with my financial restrictions. I knew a guy once that wanted to play guitar. Whenever he got stumped, and couldn't play properly, he blamed the guitar, and went out and bought another one. He has many, many guitars, some very expensive, and he still can't play. Tommy Emmanuel could blow him away with a $29.99 Amazon.com guitar.
Excuse me. I diverge. Getting back to my point. Of those two crappy snap-shots, the one on the right shows more sky (or it could be a lake, or maybe the ocean). Also, in the same picture, I see 3 windows in the dormer on the right, and all of the dormer+ on the left. That, necessary to me detail, is absent in the picture to the left. Both cameras, sitting on the counter in the camera shop, have essentially the same information on the lens, and in the specs. If I knew ahead of time how these pictures would turn out, and I made my purchase based on that point, the one on the right would win.
Is there some way to make an educated guess, and thereby stand a very good chance of getting what I want. Or, is it simply a case of buying as many guitars as you think you might need, to be a rock star?

Thanks...............Dave..........PS...Unless I'm missing something, you're never going to see 3 windows in the right hand dormer, in the left hand picture, no matter how much contrast, or colour, of focus you want to inject into the equation. But what do I know?

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Aug 13, 2017 11:47:41   #
WJShaheen Loc: Gold Canyon, AZ
 
Re: "Fretting". You are certainly entitled to and encouraged to pursue your curiosity.

Bill in Gold Canyon, AZ

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Aug 13, 2017 12:17:53   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
SOLINA DAVE wrote:
Please bear with me, as I am the reference standard for amateur photographers. But I am learning......slowly.
I have a question regarding the two photos attached. Completely disregard the obvious focus problems, as that's not relevant to the question.
Each photo was taken as wide as possible, using a compact long zoom camera, with identical setup for each. The photo on the left was taken with a Canon Powershot SX720HS with a Canon lens, 24-960 (4.3-172 mm) max. aperture f3.3-6.9. And the other photo was taken with a Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ80 with a Leica lens, 24-720 (4.3-129 mm) max. aperture f3.3-6.4.
I see more image information horizontally, and vertically with the photo on the right (Lumix) than I do in the photo on the left (Powershot). Why is that?

Thanks.......................Dave
Please bear with me, as I am the reference standar... (show quote)


I think it's very hard to make a judgement given the focus problems. Do you know what caused them? >Alan

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Aug 13, 2017 12:21:15   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
jaydoc wrote:
"Minutiae", not "menusha"


Spelling misteaks here are very frequent and sometimes very funny. >Alan

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Aug 13, 2017 12:28:44   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
aellman wrote:
I think it's very hard to make a judgement given the focus problems. Do you know what caused them? >Alan


Exactly. Focus affects focal length, as I've found on my Nikon 70-200mm f2.8. It's called "focus breathing." In order to evaluate both lenses under equal conditions, we'd need to see photos from both cameras that were equally in focus.

Or was that a test?

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Aug 13, 2017 13:16:38   #
le boecere
 
SOLINA DAVE wrote:
I'm certainly not "fretting". I like taking scenery shots. To me, the more I can get in the shot, the better. I was simply wondering why several cameras, with the same lens specs., would create differing wide angle shots.
I appreciated the replies from those who recognized that. And who recognized that although I may be inexperienced at this, I wasn't stupid. Jerry said it in one statement, "not all 24 mms are created equal". Jack generated interest when making reference to sensor size, and crop factors. And Rab-Eye, by questioning my question, confirmed to me that he probably understood what I was driving at. Also, lens breathing, I hadn't heard about that. Something else to explore. Thank you.
I was obviously, since it is obvious that I'm new to this, looking for a simple answer. I certainly didn't need a whole lot of psycho analysis. I just wanted to have a better idea as to how my little camera worked.

I'm out.......................................Dave
I'm certainly not "fretting". I like tak... (show quote)


Dave,

I've never seen a forum that did not attract "the few" who want to be certain you (we) understand that you are the lesser, as they position themselves "from above" (you). It's been a perceived necessity among certain personality types, since time began, and really seems to come to the forefront as we age. You'll discover a significant share of "aged" curmudgeons on UHH.

Hope you stay with us.

_Van

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Aug 13, 2017 13:36:09   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Mike, the time to worry about minutiae is when one notices. Where on the learning curve one is at the time is irrelevant. Sure exposure and composition are critical, but when something occurs and is noticed when is a better time to stop and study the issue? One could be pleasantly surprised with where that path might lead.
--Bob

lamiaceae wrote:
Why are you fretting over this technical menusha when you claim to be a beginner. There are a lot of other facts about digital photography you need to worry about at this point or any for that matter. Minuscule mysteries of optics is not one of them. Most interest to you of those are Area (size of sensor) and Density. But you don't need to understand those to use a camera and create images. I've rarely have compared images from my many cameras in such a way. And I tend to be extremely curious to the point of a fault. I have and have had or used many cameras over the decades: 120 film Rollieflex TLR (at school), 7 different Pentax 35mm SLRs (more if you count at school), two 4x5" View Cameras (more if you count at school), 120 film 6x7cm Pentax 6x7, two vintage Kodak and Certo Rangefinder 35mm cameras, Nikon F & Nikon F2 (at work), 8x10" B&J view camera (at work), Giant 20x24 vertical copy camera with 8x10" custom reduction back (at work), my parent's Agus 620 Film Camera, my parent's 35mm Minolta Talker; and more recently, two different Kodak Digital P&S / Bridge Cameras, a Samsung tiny Digital P&S camera, Pentax K-5, Pentax K-20D, Pentax K-100D DSLRs, and I really doubt that any two of them would take the exact same image with out doing as much fiddling as a flight to the moon.

The problem and your question problem is cameras and lens are not exactly at the indicated or advertised magnification in actual use. Yes, they are focused, but scales are approximations. There has been a lot on the UHH about this in detail with many examples. It is sort of related to "Lens Breathing" with zoom lenses, but much more general and fundamental than that. It is also connected to why two similar lenses may and usually do have different limits of closest focus. For example and I have these lenses, a 50mm f/2, 50mm f/1.7, 50mm f/1.8, and 50mm f/1.4 all will give different closest focus and maximum magnification and image size. Fairly easy to demonstrate. Something similar can occur at the mid and infinity end of things but harder to demonstrate but you did by using two different non-DSLR digital cameras with similar lenses and sensors. It is all in the complex science of optics. I may get curious bout such things but I don't obsess over it and would rather use the equipment as best I can and ignore the mysterious perplexities.

P.S. and as pointed out by others, the focal lengths advertised for P&S and Bridge cameras are rather approximate, they are what that are, and slightly different in reality for your two cameras. Some of the highest end Nikon DSLR / SLR bodies and lenses may give you very close to one-to-one everything between lenses due to say IF and other technical features. And I am sure a few combinations of Pentax, Canon, and Fuji lenses and cameras will as well (noting they also have IF lenses too), but few bodies have 1:1 viewfinders (except a few Nikons as noted, as far as I know).
Why are you fretting over this technical menusha w... (show quote)

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Aug 13, 2017 15:02:48   #
cdayton
 
Although both cameras have 1/2.3" sensors, they are actually of slightly different sizes: 6.16x4.62 and 6.17x4.55mm, respectively. Thus, the focal lengths are different and agree with the image differences (LUMIX a little larger field).

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Aug 13, 2017 16:38:07   #
Soul Dr. Loc: Beautiful Shenandoah Valley
 
rook2c4 wrote:
The "Leica" lenses they put on the Panasonic pocket cameras have no more contrast or sharpness than what you can expect from most other pocket cameras in comparable price range. Although they are good, they are not really special. It's just a licensing agreement between Panasonic and Leica to use the name, no more.


That is not entirely true. Panasonic may use Leica's brand on their lenses, but they do have to meet Leica's strict specifications on the manufacturing and performance of these lenses. So it does make them a little more special than some other brands.

will

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Aug 13, 2017 17:27:52   #
SOLINA DAVE
 
cdayton wrote:
Although both cameras have 1/2.3" sensors, they are actually of slightly different sizes: 6.16x4.62 and 6.17x4.55mm, respectively. Thus, the focal lengths are different and agree with the image differences (LUMIX a little larger field).


Sorry, but I was using info. as per these two links. It seems, according to this site, that they're identical, at least as far as sensor size is concerned.

http://www.digicamdb.com/specs/panasonic_lumix-dmc-tz80/
http://www.digicamdb.com/specs/canon_powershot-sx720-hs/

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