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Questions About Exposure Compensation
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Aug 13, 2017 00:53:43   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
Don't think so much of the "right" exposure, think of a "pleasing" exposure. Might be a bit above the meter - might be under the meter. As Gene51 indicated, the meter is dumb and we have to think. Yeah...tough, huh?

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Aug 13, 2017 01:02:02   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Gene51 wrote:
To a degree it is similar, but only if you shoot raw. There is no substitute for correct exposure. And if exp comp helps you to get a good exposure it will be better than anything you can do in post processing ....

ETTR is NOT overexposing anything. It is merely shifting the entire histogram to the right WITHOUT overexposing the highlights. The entire point of ETTR is to NOT overexpose anything. The result may look a little "high key" but it is easy to bring the image to a normal tonal range as long as nothing is overexposed.
To a degree it is similar, but only if you shoot r... (show quote)

In some sense, we are using the words "under exposure", "correct exposure", and "over exposure" to mean different things. The important issue is providing data that can be used to create the image you want via the method you want. For example, when I was using Kodachrome I would go to a slightly darker exposure when taking a picture of a white building {such as a New England church}, even though it would make the sky "too blue", because I knew that using the meter's reading would result in an image in which detail {such as individual board demarcations} was washed out.

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Aug 13, 2017 05:10:11   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
rehess wrote:
In some sense, we are using the words "under exposure", "correct exposure", and "over exposure" to mean different things. The important issue is providing data that can be used to create the image you want via the method you want. For example, when I was using Kodachrome I would go to a slightly darker exposure when taking a picture of a white building {such as a New England church}, even though it would make the sky "too blue", because I knew that using the meter's reading would result in an image in which detail {such as individual board demarcations} was washed out.
In some sense, we are using the words "under ... (show quote)


Exactly!

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Aug 13, 2017 05:17:48   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Mac wrote:
Thanks MMC, I do shoot in RAW.
Just now I was out shooting a bush just to practice with EC, and I learned that the correct exposure is not always the best exposure.


Well, here you mean "correct exposure" to mean indicated or the metered exposure. An actual correct exposure is the best exposure. It all depends on your wants and needs. You might want to read about the Zone System and placement of tone values. For that with digital photography you use EC or a hand held meter with Manual mode on the camera. It's all good.

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Aug 13, 2017 05:18:31   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
CaptainC wrote:
Don't think so much of the "right" exposure, think of a "pleasing" exposure. Might be a bit above the meter - might be under the meter. As Gene51 indicated, the meter is dumb and we have to think. Yeah...tough, huh?



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Aug 13, 2017 05:55:58   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
The correct exposure is not always what the default meter reading says.


The meter always tells the truth. It is only a measurement tool. It is up to the photographer to interpret the results, both technically and creatively, to realize his/her vision. More knowledgeable photographers can make better use of something as precise as a spot meter, but most will rely on evaluative, which will work 80% of the time without compensation, and if things are getting overexposed, will adjust with NEGATIVE compensation to darken the image a bit.

The correct exposure is whatever the photographer wants it to be.

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Aug 13, 2017 05:57:19   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Mac wrote:
Gene
Thank you for the explanations and the photo demonstration.


You're welcome.

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Aug 13, 2017 05:59:22   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Mac wrote:
Is the camera's Exposure Compensation the same as adjusting exposure in post?

Is there an advantage of one over the other?

Thanks
Mac

p.s.
If not could you explain the difference?


I see this is up to two pages already, so you probably have an answer, but I'll give it a shot. Using EC helps to get the exposure right. Post processing is for correcting what wasn't caught right by the camera. It's the difference between getting it right and correcting a mistake.

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Aug 13, 2017 06:33:15   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
The correct exposure is not always what the default meter reading says.


Actually there are multiple correct exposures possible in most instances due to the interplay of shutter speed and aperture. and with Digital we also can adjust ISO much more than with film, especially from frame to frame.

Best,
Todd Ferguson

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Aug 13, 2017 07:05:37   #
advocate1982
 
MMC wrote:
If you take picture in RAW exposure compensation much better because you receive lossless file otherwise in PP you are working with JPG and lose pixels.


that is simply wrong.

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Aug 13, 2017 07:29:55   #
srt101fan
 
Gene51 wrote:
To a degree it is similar, but only if you shoot raw. There is no substitute for correct exposure. And if exp comp helps you to get a good exposure it will be better than anything you can do in post processing.

There is no such thing as fooling the meter. The meter is operating as it should, and merely suggesting an exposure setting. It is up to the photographer, which a solid understanding of how his/her camera works. to take that suggestion and make a good exposure. I shoot raw, and mostly manual, and I use spot meter. It's really hard to mess up on exposure.

ETTR is NOT overexposing anything. It is merely shifting the entire histogram to the right WITHOUT overexposing the highlights. The entire point of ETTR is to NOT overexpose anything. The result may look a little "high key" but it is easy to bring the image to a normal tonal range as long as nothing is overexposed.

Under exposed images, if shot as raw, can be successfully adjusted when you know what you are doing. It is often necessary to do a luminosity mask in order to apply more aggressive noise reduction and add some contrast to the dark areas.

See "underexposed" image and the adjusted one below. There is no issue in adjusting the deep shadow areas to reveal all that rich detail and texture. Would not have been able to do this if the image was shot as jpeg. In reality the image was not "underexposed" but exposed correctly for the highlights, and adjusted in post to provide a more natural tonal range. No compensation was used, but I did expose for detail in the whitewater, usign the camera's spot meter and adjusting the camera 1 stop higher (more light) than the camera's reading. Had I used the camera's reading without the adjustment, the water would have been gray, and the image would definitely have been underexposed.
To a degree it is similar, but only if you shoot r... (show quote)


Gene, would you please explain ETTR and when and how you might want to use it?

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Aug 13, 2017 07:47:29   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
Actually there are multiple correct exposures possible in most instances due to the interplay of shutter speed and aperture. and with Digital we also can adjust ISO much more than with film, especially from frame to frame.

Best,
Todd Ferguson


For the same result, the exposure is the same regardless of what ISO, Shutter and Aperture you chose. EV 15 (or any other exposure value) is the same over a range of settings.

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Aug 13, 2017 07:56:11   #
Leitz Loc: Solms
 
MMC wrote:
If you take picture in RAW exposure compensation much better because you receive lossless file otherwise in PP you are working with JPG and lose pixels.

Or, you can shoot in TIFF and work with a lossless file. With some cameras, at least.

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Aug 13, 2017 08:03:22   #
Jerry G Loc: Waterford, Michigan and Florida
 
[quote=Gene51] expose for detail in the whitewater, usign the camera's spot meter and adjusting the camera 1 stop higher (more light) than the camera's reading

This is the second time I have seen you comment on this technique, I will have to try this,I do seem to have problems with blown highlights. Thank you.

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Aug 13, 2017 08:16:43   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
srt101fan wrote:
Gene, would you please explain ETTR and when and how you might want to use it?


Exposing to the right - ETTR - is another one of those often quoted but often misunderstood concepts.

An exposure of average brightness, where the histogram shows no values against the right or left side of the histogram a way to slightly improve image quality is to shift the entire histogram "to the right," just shy of having values along the right border of the histogram.

One of the better illustrations can be found here:

https://photographylife.com/exposing-to-the-right-explained

I typically use his Method 2 for ETTR.

I do object to the notion that the meter is "fooled" by high contrast scenes. Only the photographer is fooled if he does not take a moment to evaluate the meter's recommendations.

I will use matrix or evaluative metering for average subjects without unusually bright highlights, or low contrast scenes. I will compensate as required to get the histogram just shy of over exposure, or use the highlight warning - "blinkies" to get to the same result.

When I shoot high contrast stuff, it's manual all the way.

This is an example of crazy high contrast - snow, ice, eagle with white head, noon day lighting. I spot metered the ice where the sun was shining on it, and I used that setting for the next 90 mins, since the eagles were all out on the ice and drenched by the sun - based on ETTR. Using evaluative metering would have reacted to the darker parts of the eagle, and if it occupied more of the frame, I might have ended up with lighter under parts and blown out heads and ice.


(Download)

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