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ISO again
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Jul 21, 2017 16:57:55   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
CO wrote:
I downloaded pelican 1 and pelican 2 so I could see the metadata. This is what I see for pelican 1 (the metadata seems to have been stripped out in pelican 2).

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS (16.1 megapixels)
F-stop: f/8
Exposure time: 1/500 sec.
ISO speed: ISO 200
Exposure bias: 0 step
Focal length: 247mm
Max aperture: 5.4
Metering mode: Pattern

The ISO was only 200 so that would not be a factor. Even high ISO wouldn't cause the photo to be soft although digital noise would creep in. Your shutter speed was 1/500 sec. which is fast enough for that shot. I think your camera didn't achieve good focus or the lens has soft image quality. Nothing in the photo is sharp from front to back.
I downloaded pelican 1 and pelican 2 so I could se... (show quote)



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Jul 21, 2017 17:35:14   #
jenny Loc: in hiding:)
 
All you have written Robin, and all you have shown, indicate how eager you are to have sharper pictures. ANd
most of the replies have mentioned that, yes, some of the latest high end models handle hi ISO well. So Auto
ISO does have its use, particularly where the light changes dramatically from one shot to another. The explanation
usually given for that use then is an onstage concert, and for there some noise is acceptable. But for general use, you
really do need to stay with the light of day, and the lowest possible ISO will really give you the least noise.

Let's get the best out of the camera then by concentrating on what the camera can do, as adding PP to the result is
only a step to fix something that wasn't understood and might have been achieved in the camera. If you have a
tripod, you might do some tests right at home. Hope this helps.

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Jul 21, 2017 18:34:48   #
robinboulton Loc: Madison WI
 
No, they weren't cropped at all.

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Jul 21, 2017 18:53:22   #
DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX
 
I think you have an equipment issue. I often shoot at ISO 1000 to 3200 when using a high shutter speed 1/1000–1/2000 and I get sharp clear images. I primarily use either a D500 or D810 and a Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 FL lens. I'm usually at f/5.6 and I shoot raw and process in LRCC/PSCC. I know a Canon shooter who does the same with Hummingbirds. Pelicans often fly in V-formations that are incredible.
robinboulton wrote:
I almost hesitate to post for fear of inciting a flame war... but then fireworks can be fun, so here goes (hoping nobody gets too badly burned).

When I got my first digital I used ISO at 100 or 200... lesson learned from film, and I saw no reason to differ. As I've tried to master my current camera I've done a tremendous amount of reading and searching, and found huge amounts of (often contradictory) information. One post I read recently (WISH I could remember the site!) suggested that since digital cameras have improved so much lately there is no longer a need to constrain ISO so much... or maybe at all... and suggested setting ISO auto and let the camera go.

On a recent trip to a wildlife sanctuary I decided to try this theory, and took several shots of pelicans and swans that I thought were quite good, and I submitted one (pelican 1) to Shutterstock - where I have a couple of other photos accepted. It was rejected: "Focus -- The main subject of this image is not in focus". I tried to sharpen it using Corel AfterShot and resubmitted (pelican 2), getting rejected again: "Noise / Artifacts / Film Grain -- Image contains excessive noise, film grain, compression artifacts".

I wonder whether the free-range ISO I was using could be a causative factor in all this - why pelicans 1 and 2 didn't fly :)

I also attach for purposes of comparison a couple of other shots taken in the same few minute-span, using the same camera settings (swan 1 and swan 2) - these straight out of the camera with no PP.

I will read with great interest opinions on (1) using auto-ISO versus tightly constraining it, and (2) whether the high ISO caused the rejection of (pelican 2) following PP.

Thank you.
I almost hesitate to post for fear of inciting a f... (show quote)

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Jul 21, 2017 19:33:55   #
robinboulton Loc: Madison WI
 
Thanks, all of you, for sharing your knowledge and wisdom (even if I didn't want to hear some of it!) :)

I take all the points about sensor size, camera shake, etc. I even knew in my deepest heart that these factors were all in play. I'm 65 and have shaky hands, and while I do use a tripod for landscapes, for instance, these birds were moving quite fast (windy day, as can be inferred by the ripples in the water) so to get the shots, at those distances, I had to be mobile (I was actually driving along a county road which runs alongside the marsh). I would try a shot or two, the birds would move out of range, I'd get in the car and drive half a mile to the next vantage point, try again... rinse and repeat.

The black specks are actually the tips of reeds/bulrushes/whatevers that are poking through the surface of the water.

Amfoto1, thanks to you in particular for the time and effort you put into your reply. The point about sensor sizes is telling. I may have to recompose myself (he he) as a landscape-only photographer, or be content with what I can do with my older Nikon D40. dpReview says that camera has a 23.7 x 15.5 mm sensor, which would yield about 367 mm square... can that be right? It seems large for a camera of that vintage. Oh but that limiting 300 mm zoom lens...

Yes, I acknowledge the limitations of my camera which, amplified by my own, are proving difficult to overcome. Yet, withal, it IS still an amazing piece of work, and unless someone has one of those $120,000 Canon lenses lying around that they are prepared to lend me, the SX 60 is what I have to work with. The comment about never submitting a photo from one to a stock company is sobering, as I had hopes of that avenue, but the sad truth is that it was the most camera I could afford at the time - and still is. Until I get those royalties rolling in upgrades are not us.

Thanks again to all of you - I really appreciate your time and interest.

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Jul 21, 2017 23:21:17   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
If I properly understand the function of the ISO setting, it has nothing to do with focus.

Further, as the contrarians (or realists) here like to remind, ISO in a digital camera really refers to the amplification of the signal that the processor receives from the sensor. Consider that the sensor records only so much light for a given image. The processor then may boost (amplify) this recorded light to increase the "ISO."

Photographic film came in different sensitivities, stated as a value; for example, ISO 400. The media itself actually presented a more sensitive surface for recording additional light.

Before I get in too deep, let me close by noting that for practical purposes, borrowing the use of ISO from the film era keeps the concept of an increased sensitivity to light simple in the digital era.

Surely if I have mis-stated anything here, others will offer correction.
robinboulton wrote:
I almost hesitate to post for fear of inciting a flame war... but then fireworks can be fun, so here goes (hoping nobody gets too badly burned).

When I got my first digital I used ISO at 100 or 200... lesson learned from film, and I saw no reason to differ. As I've tried to master my current camera I've done a tremendous amount of reading and searching, and found huge amounts of (often contradictory) information. One post I read recently (WISH I could remember the site!) suggested that since digital cameras have improved so much lately there is no longer a need to constrain ISO so much... or maybe at all... and suggested setting ISO auto and let the camera go.

On a recent trip to a wildlife sanctuary I decided to try this theory, and took several shots of pelicans and swans that I thought were quite good, and I submitted one (pelican 1) to Shutterstock - where I have a couple of other photos accepted. It was rejected: "Focus -- The main subject of this image is not in focus". I tried to sharpen it using Corel AfterShot and resubmitted (pelican 2), getting rejected again: "Noise / Artifacts / Film Grain -- Image contains excessive noise, film grain, compression artifacts".

I wonder whether the free-range ISO I was using could be a causative factor in all this - why pelicans 1 and 2 didn't fly :)

I also attach for purposes of comparison a couple of other shots taken in the same few minute-span, using the same camera settings (swan 1 and swan 2) - these straight out of the camera with no PP.

I will read with great interest opinions on (1) using auto-ISO versus tightly constraining it, and (2) whether the high ISO caused the rejection of (pelican 2) following PP.

Thank you.
I almost hesitate to post for fear of inciting a f... (show quote)

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Jul 21, 2017 23:45:48   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
The basic problem with these shots is that they are not in focus. Best of luck.

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Jul 24, 2017 12:44:48   #
srt101fan
 
bull drink water wrote:
when I shot slides in the 70's and 80's I used 400 asa film mostly. today I use whatever iso I think i'll need sometimes noise is the price for the shot.


Good point. If you can't control the light, and you want to set the shutter speed and aperture, and you can't use a tripod, you have to let the ISO ride!? What else can you do aside from walking away from the shot? For me the acceptability of high ISOs depends on subject and mood. For wildlife closeup shots noise may be a problem, for moody, "film noir" kind of night scenes maybe not so much.

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Jul 25, 2017 06:39:47   #
bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.
 
zumarose wrote:
I have this camera. It was a mistake. I thought it would provide a lighter camera for quick trips where I have to travel light. I have rarely used it because the end result quality of image is far below my Nikon dslr. When the lens barrel is fully or even substantially extended it tips the center of gravity so far away from the body of the camera that camera shake even with a tripod is a real possibility. It's for sale if anyone's interested.


looks like you might do well with a lens support. it worked with my "heavy" long lens.

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