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Nikon announces development of professional mirrorless DSLR
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Jul 14, 2017 09:29:46   #
rpena2860
 
rehess wrote:
Not clear why the K-01 was not a success. From my perspective, the Pentax K-01 and Canon EOS-M had the same shortcoming - no EVF.

Note: I purchased a K-30, but I would have purchased a K-01 instead if viewfinder had not been an issue.


Ditto. Me thinks the lack of an EVF is the reason for the dismal sales of the K-10 and the Q, as well. (It was also not a very aesthetically pleasing camera, IMHO). In the case of the K-01, the EVF technology available then was nowhere near what it is today, so I guess I'll give Pentax a pass; however, with the current and later Q models, there was really no excuse for not having an EVF (even an optional hot-shoe version if including one would price it out of marketing feasibility). Of course, some would argue there was never a feasible market for the Q anyway, but that's another argument for another day.

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Jul 14, 2017 09:41:44   #
rpena2860
 
Delderby wrote:
DSLR or SLR was a confusing title any which way. SLR = single lens reflex. The "single lens" referred to the fact that there was no separate view finder lens (like in a Rollei twin lens reflex box camera). Mirrorless is still single lens, without the "clunk click every trip" of the (mechanical) instant return mirror. I have spoken to photographers who thought "single lens" referred to the kit zoom that came with their DSLR! It does and it doesn't! At one point, to get away from the clunk click every trip, Sony introduced their Alpha series cameras, which incorporated a "see through" mirror which did not have to get out of the way to take a pic before returning. Not exactly mirrorless, but did get rid of the clunk click. I believe that Sony Alpha users sometimes had ghosting problems.
"Reflex" refers to the prism that bends the light up to the viewfinder, which, with an electronic viewfinder is unnecessary.
There will not always be DSLR AND mirrorless - are there any photgraphers who seriously believe that mirrorless will not win the day?
DSLR or SLR was a confusing title any which way. S... (show quote)


A mirrorless is technically not a DSLR. True it is Digital (D) Single (S) Lens (L) camera, but the REFLEX (R) is the mirror. Even TLR's (Twin lens Reflex) cameras have a mirror to reflect the viewing lens image up to the viewfinder. Mirror-less have no need to do so as they use an EVF and display what the sensor sees directly onto the EVF w/ no mirror. Mirror-less would be better known as MILC (Mirrorless Inter-changeable Lens Camera).

BTW -- TLR's have no Prism (at least in their traditional waist-level VF configuration) and I believe cameras were referred to as REFLEX cameras before the PRISM (and associated Through The Lens viewing Eye-level finder) was even introduced.

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Jul 14, 2017 10:30:49   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
billnikon wrote:
That is for a completely different Nikon camera system.


Of course. Just to show there is no technical problem.

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Jul 14, 2017 10:36:40   #
rpena2860
 
rpena2860 wrote:
Ditto. Me thinks the lack of an EVF is the reason for the dismal sales of the K-10 and the Q, as well. (It was also not a very aesthetically pleasing camera, IMHO). In the case of the K-01, the EVF technology available then was nowhere near what it is today, so I guess I'll give Pentax a pass; however, with the current and later Q models, there was really no excuse for not having an EVF (even an optional hot-shoe version if including one would price it out of marketing feasibility). Of course, some would argue there was never a feasible market for the Q anyway, but that's another argument for another day.
Ditto. Me thinks the lack of an EVF is the reason... (show quote)


Meant to type K-01 ...

(sorry for the self-quote, the EDIT button seems to have disappeared on this one.)

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Jul 14, 2017 10:36:45   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Delderby wrote:
DSLR or SLR was a confusing title any which way. SLR = single lens reflex. The "single lens" referred to the fact that there was no separate view finder lens (like in a Rollei twin lens reflex box camera). Mirrorless is still single lens, without the "clunk click every trip" of the (mechanical) instant return mirror. I have spoken to photographers who thought "single lens" referred to the kit zoom that came with their DSLR! It does and it doesn't! At one point, to get away from the clunk click every trip, Sony introduced their Alpha series cameras, which incorporated a "see through" mirror which did not have to get out of the way to take a pic before returning. Not exactly mirrorless, but did get rid of the clunk click. I believe that Sony Alpha users sometimes had ghosting problems.
"Reflex" refers to the prism that bends the light up to the viewfinder, which, with an electronic viewfinder is unnecessary.
There will not always be DSLR AND mirrorless - are there any photgraphers who seriously believe that mirrorless will not win the day?
DSLR or SLR was a confusing title any which way. S... (show quote)
The one place I might not agree with your answer is your emphasis on the mirror "click-clack". Experiment with your DSLR; shoot some pictures "normally" and some in "live view" / "mirror up". With my Pentax K-mount camera, the shutter makes as much noise as the mirror does. That may be why Sony is experimenting with the "electronic shutter" that has caused so much discussion, to get away from shutter noise also. Personally I like the solution Pentax chose for their Q-mount MILC line; each Q-mount lens has a whisper-quiet leaf shutter embedded in it, so that is the camera I use when someone asks me to take pictures at some ceremony, where noise matters.

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Jul 14, 2017 10:43:35   #
wmurnahan Loc: Bloomington IN
 
tradio wrote:
I would hope that they do not change mounts, I would hate to repopulate my bag with new glass.


To utilize the advantage of mirrorless (size), I think they are going to have to because the current lenses would be way bigger than needed with just an empty tube filling the space taken by the mirror. You wouldn't want the same mount but two different lens systems that were not interchangeable, so a new mount only makes since.

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Jul 14, 2017 11:04:35   #
bennydnut Loc: Phila, Pa.
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
My Nikon mirrorless dream would be Mirrorless body, brilliant OLED viewfinder, dual XD slots, same excellent low light performance as D810. And I don't give a shit about WiFi and GPS.


DITTO here.

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Jul 14, 2017 11:25:35   #
Rab-Eye Loc: Indiana
 
tradio wrote:
I would hope that they do not change mounts, I would hate to repopulate my bag with new glass.


Some believe that the announcement of the new FX 70-300 is a hint that a mirrorless FX body will be released, and this lens was primarily designed for that body. If that's the case, the mount stays the same.

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Jul 14, 2017 11:47:21   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
rehess wrote:
The one place I might not agree with your answer is your emphasis on the mirror "click-clack". Experiment with your DSLR; shoot some pictures "normally" and some in "live view" / "mirror up". With my Pentax K-mount camera, the shutter makes as much noise as the mirror does. That may be why Sony is experimenting with the "electronic shutter" that has caused so much discussion, to get away from shutter noise also. Personally I like the solution Pentax chose for their Q-mount MILC line; each Q-mount lens has a whisper-quiet leaf shutter embedded in it, so that is the camera I use when someone asks me to take pictures at some ceremony, where noise matters.
The one place I might not agree with your answer i... (show quote)


I think all cameras that do video might use an electronic shutter for it.

My LUMIX GM5 has both too. The electronic can be much faster. I don't get why they include the mechanical one.

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Jul 14, 2017 12:34:59   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
Brucej67 wrote:
You may be right, but I hate to have to spend another $30,000 on new lenses and at my age I will probably stick to the DSLR.


Me too! Perhaps I might buy one to travel and experiment with, but I fully expect to completely retire from the paid side of photography mostly with what I already own. Way too much money involved here not to! Best of luck.

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Jul 14, 2017 12:46:47   #
mikelemm1
 
Mirrorless SLR? What???

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Jul 14, 2017 12:49:38   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
billnikon wrote:
Many Canon and Nikon users have been anxiously awaiting their respective companies to offer a truly professional mirrorless solution. With the Sony a9 taking aim at the top DSLRs, that clamor has only increased in intensity. A Nikon spokesperson has recently confirmed that the company is developing a mirrorless camera that "should compete in the mid-range and high-end DSLR [market]."

In speaking to DPReview, a Nikon spokesperson confirmed that the company is indeed developing mirrorless products that "offer the performance prospective customers expect, including the ultimate optics performance, image-processing technologies, strength and durability, and operation." The spokesperson declined to elaborate on details, and it's unclear how such a camera would integrate with the current product line, in particular if it would introduce a new lens mount. Nonetheless, the spokesperson indicated that the camera would aim to compete with professional DSLRs. While details are very scant at the moment, receiving official confirmation from Nikon is a great sign for those who have been long awaiting the company to step up to challenge Sony and Fujifilm. If both Nikon and Canon step into the mirrorless market with full force, it could cause a major paradigm shift in terms of the DSLR/mirrorless landscape and will no doubt propel development forward all the more quickly.
Many Canon and Nikon users have been anxiously awa... (show quote)


I am sure Nikon and Canon will put their best foot forward, but they are coming very late to the game. How many of the Fuji and Sony owners will be willing to dump there cameras and buy the Nikon and Canon mirrorless cameras? They have lost all the potential sales of a customer picking them over the Fuji and Sony. Basically, up to now it has been only a decision of Fuji or Sony. Or deciding to go smaller with Olympus or Panasonic. I think Fuji, Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic have been smartly detecting which way the wind is blowing. Even Hasselblad has the X-1D because of the shift in the market.

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Jul 14, 2017 13:11:36   #
Kuzano
 
Brucej67 wrote:
Isn't that due to the body thickness and if that is the case can't they make the body the same thickness as a DSLR?


Sounds like great wishing on your part, but much of the success of Mirrorless is that shorter flange distance, resulting in a smaller body and a smaller overall lens system with lighter weight.

Canon has already blown out the idea of using EF and EF-S lenses on mirrorless. Great fail Canon. Now will Nikon make the same mistake. They need to dump their current lens development in favor of a total new lens system, just as all the mirrorless before them.

Goodbye NiCanon!

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Jul 14, 2017 13:16:58   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
Brucej67 wrote:
You may be right, but I hate to have to spend another $30,000 on new lenses and at my age I will probably stick to the DSLR.


I think that is why Olympus went the way they did. They made it so the film lenses could be used, but they had to put out a chart of f-stops and zoom focal lengths where the images would be acceptable (most are not really usable). Then they made a system that would go from fisheye to 800mm in 5 lenses plus one thin 1.4X teleconveter for under $10K. The size of that system is such that it is almost possible to take it on a plane as personal carry-on size rather than carry-on. In reality, they actually abandoned all the people that had Olympus film lenses for a new system. But they made it easier to get into the new system.

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Jul 14, 2017 13:41:04   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
Kuzano wrote:
Sounds like great wishing on your part, but much of the success of Mirrorless is that shorter flange distance, resulting in a smaller body and a smaller overall lens system with lighter weight.
I cannot speak "with authority" on why people purchase MILCs; what I do know is that the size advantage is not what people make it out to be. With the exception of focal lengths right around "standard" lens {focal length approx equal to sensor diagonal} there is no true size advantage. The true advantage of MILC comes from what can be done with EVF.

Kuzano wrote:
Canon has already blown out the idea of using EF and EF-S lenses on mirrorless. Great fail Canon. Now will Nikon make the same mistake. They need to dump their current lens development in favor of a total new lens system, just as all the mirrorless before them.

Goodbye NiCanon!
No, the adapter provided by Canon was to provide a reasonable collection of lenses when the MILC family is first starting. For Nikon {and Pentax if they were to go this way} there would be an additional advantage of allowing dedicated users to use the fine old lenses they hate to leave behind.

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