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Is jpeg even needed to be saved?
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Jun 27, 2017 15:40:06   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
burkphoto wrote:
If you are working in a *high end lab* or service bureau with a high-end Epson or Canon inkjet printer using eight or more pigmented inks, you have a device with a 16-bit compatible driver. If you are converting and adjusting a raw file in Lightroom, using a wide-gamut color space, you have a much greater range of tonal gradation than can be stored in an 8-bit, sRGB JPEG. A 16-bit printer driver can print many more subtle gradations than an 8-bit driver. It converts the photo from a wide gamut ICC color space directly to the color space profile for the exact paper, ink, and printer combination in use. The result is a print with much finer tonal gradation than you can see in a print made with an 8-bit driver, from an 8-bit JPEG.

Top ad agencies, art museums, and pro photographers with high end clients use this process. It preserves as much of the tonality as is possible to print on paper. If your business is to reproduce CocaCola Red, rather than Corvette Red, you need a workflow like this.

If you export an adjusted raw file as 16-bit TIFF, it will print exactly the same way as in the scenario I just mentioned. The TIFF contains the adjusted bitmap image in a file wrapper, along with assorted metadata. HOWEVER, you have limited yourself to the selection of tones stored in the TIFF. There is still more information in the raw file, that can be extracted and printed, or extracted and exported to a different TIFF.

What separates traditional photo labs from high end service bureaus is the technology and precision applied. Conventional photo labs like the one I spent half my life in will accept only 8-bit JPEG files in the sRGB color space, and print them to RGB devices on silver halide paper. Those devices have three color channels. The photo paper they use has a gamut about the same size as sRGB, only a little different. There are some colors in sRGB that the paper can't reproduce, and some colors the paper can reproduce that sRGB cannot contain.

When I ran the digital departments at Herff Jones Photography Division (now part of Lifetouch), we had 15 Noritsu mini-labs. We also used an Epson for prints up to 44x96 inches. The Epson had a MUCH wider color gamut than the Noritsus, so we had to "dumb it down" with simulation profiles to make it look like the Noritsus. Otherwise, if we had an order for large format prints and small format prints mixed together, the Epson prints would make the Noritsu prints look bad! And that was from 8-bit JPEGs. When we received a 16-bit TIFF in a wide-gamut color space, for a large Epson print and some Noritsu prints (12x18 and smaller), they would not match unless we converted the TIFF to an 8-bit sRGB JPEG to make both prints. But if we printed the entire order on the Epson, from the 16-bit TIFF, converting color spaces on the fly, it was very noticeably better than anything else we could deliver.
If you are working in a *high end lab* or service ... (show quote)


Sooo, what do I do if I want the "best" large print ??? - and where do I send it ??

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Jun 27, 2017 15:59:11   #
Wall-E Loc: Phoenix, AZ
 
dangriss wrote:
Just one thought on your original question.

Shoot sports shots in JPEG only. While you lose the flexibility of RAW, you will gain shots. The camera will bog down writing the RAW files to the card, shortening the length of your photo "string".

Otherwise RAW is the best choice.


The vast majority of cameras shoot faster/longer bursts with jpegs, rather than Raw or Raw/jpg.
So, that's why almost every sports action photog shoots ONLY jpeg.

The D500 is an exception. It can shoot at full rate, continouously, Raw files, using a 2033x XQD card.

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Jun 28, 2017 09:45:45   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
imagemeister wrote:
Sooo, what do I do if I want the "best" large print ??? - and where do I send it ??


Nash Editions is a start. But Graham's service bureau is just one of the oldest and best... There are many who know how to do this, now. This workflow is used in pro commercial studios, corporate in-house communications/creative services shops, as well as labs.

However, MOST photo lab execs are way too short-sighted to understand the added value that archival inkjet printing provides. They get hung up on cost per square foot, which can be five times more than silver halide. They don't care about color gamut or 200-year life vs. 40-year life before fading...

The very best way is to learn to do it yourself. But that may take you away from the camera and (if you sell your work) sales opportunities.

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Jun 28, 2017 12:59:20   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
burkphoto wrote:
Nash Editions is a start. But Graham's service bureau is just one of the oldest and best... There are many who know how to do this, now. This workflow is used in pro commercial studios, corporate in-house communications/creative services shops, as well as labs.

However, MOST photo lab execs are way too short-sighted to understand the added value that archival inkjet printing provides. They get hung up on cost per square foot, which can be five times more than silver halide. They don't care about color gamut or 200-year life vs. 40-year life before fading...

The very best way is to learn to do it yourself. But that may take you away from the camera and (if you sell your work) sales opportunities.
Nash Editions is a start. But Graham's service bur... (show quote)


Thanks Bill !

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Jun 28, 2017 20:16:52   #
scott42946 Loc: Alabama
 
Interestingly, Apple is moving to an alternative format to JPEG in some newer version of iOS. Planned as a 'JPEG-killer' I believe...

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Jun 28, 2017 20:22:12   #
scott42946 Loc: Alabama
 
IOS 11--HEIF (High Effiency Image Format) is supposed to reduce image size by 50%

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Jul 2, 2017 10:46:28   #
PhotoKurtz Loc: Carterville, IL
 
Lots of good feedback here. Not leading with details of my equipment opened the door for creative responses... 4000 frames from a weekend air show was my inspiration for asking..

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Jul 2, 2017 10:48:48   #
PhotoKurtz Loc: Carterville, IL
 
Canon 7d, btw. 64g card(s). I go direct from camera to ext HD.

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Jul 2, 2017 10:59:07   #
PhotoKurtz Loc: Carterville, IL
 
I got into the RaW + jpeg for a 2month photo gig for BLM in the Mojave Desert a couple years ago. That was their requirement.

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Jul 12, 2017 14:27:43   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
PhotoKurtz wrote:
For years I have set my camera to store RAW + Jpeg. For a long time it was Raw + Jpeg Large, then I changed to RAW + Jpeg Small. Now I'm wondering if I even need to be saving jpeg in the camera at all. I only process from RAW.

This would save on storage space and probably help the shooting speed when shooting long strings of sports action pics.

Thoughts?

I do not understand, why you shoot that way! If you do not have any use for the jpeg, then why have your camera set up this way, it only slows you down, it lets you shoot less and fill up your cards too fast???

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Jul 12, 2017 17:00:52   #
PhotoKurtz Loc: Carterville, IL
 
As I said earlier, I had a paying assignment in California with the BLM which required RAW and jpeg. I just hdn't thought about it it since then. No big deal. Got favorable feedback both ways.

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Jul 13, 2017 23:15:13   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
PhotoKurtz wrote:
Lots of good feedback here. Not leading with details of my equipment opened the door for creative responses... 4000 frames from a weekend air show was my inspiration for asking..

I cannot imagine shooting that many frames in such a short period of time. We were on vacation last week, and I shot about 1000 frames in eight daze. I may not shoot another 1000 in the next 51 weeks.

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Jul 13, 2017 23:19:17   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Unless you are using the jpg files, it seems like a no brainer to stop shooting/saving in that format.

--

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Jul 25, 2017 09:43:56   #
PhotoKurtz Loc: Carterville, IL
 
rehess wrote:
I cannot imagine on that many frames in such a short period of time. We were on vacation last week, and I shot about 1000 frames in eight daze. I may not shoot another 1000 in the next 51 weeks.

We all have our styles. Just back from three weeks in UP, MI. Ave 800 shots per day. Waterfalls, bugs, clouds, sunrise , sunset, food , peeps, highways. , One air race. Lighthouses. All colorful.

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