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How Can An Intermediate Photographer Best Advance Their Skills To The Next Level
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Mar 4, 2017 02:33:18   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
ssscomp wrote:
Buy a pretend roll of 24 shot film. Then go someplace, anyplace, and take photos but pretend you only have 24 shots. One of the problems that I find is that it is too easy to take multiple photos. If you limit yourself to 24 you have to think about it, move around to different angles, be careful about what is in the background, check where the light is coming from, other unwanted shadows in the photograph? Just take 24 and come back and analyze them. And then if you get the chance, go back to the same place and do it again having already reviewed the first 24 photographs with some ideas in your mind of how you can improve it and go back and take 24 more. Then try somewheres else will take 24 photographs , Go home and analyze them. Check for your focus, check for camera shake, check to see if anything is blown out on the high side or just invisible of the Darkside. Maybe take a few that Will come out weird which is perfect as long as they come out weird the way you expected. Then go back the next day and shoot another 24 at the same place. Pretty soon you start paying more attention to what you're shooting.

A number of years ago I took a weeklong workshop and afterwords the teacher told me that in all the years that she had been teaching the course I had the best knowledge of dynamic range, signal to noise ratio, and all the technical aspects of shooting a photo. She also told me I took the worst photos she had seen which was exactly what I needed. This was on the third day and she really pressed on me the importance of not just walking up and taking a shot but thinking the shot through, if I took three steps to the left then that rock would not overlap The other rock and we could see sunlight between them – that kind of thing that I never thought of. It was a great week. So pay more attention to what you shoot because by now you certainly have the skills to take a good shot. And mostly have fun.
Buy a pretend roll of 24 shot film. Then go somepl... (show quote)


I tend to shoot only the picture I want. I don't wear the camera out with alternate shots. However it is true that I have had to discipline myself and take my time. I think I have taken more photos tha anybody without checking all my settings before I take the shot. I have yet to take any with the lens cover on but I have been awfully close a time or two.

Thanks and good luck to you as well. I hope the teachers comments helped you a great deal.

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Mar 4, 2017 02:35:18   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
DyanCB wrote:
As a lifelong photographer with a fine arts degree I am relearning and adjusting to digital photo making and post processing. After all my reading and practice I am putting myself back in the practice of the art student by having my work critiqued. I joined several camera clubs and routinely participate in competitions. Even as the judges are critiquing other photographers ' work I am learning. Join camera clubs, put your work out there for other eyes to see. Sometimes it takes another person's perspective for you to see where you can grow
As a lifelong photographer with a fine arts degree... (show quote)


Do you belong to any online groups that critique your photos?

Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 02:39:27   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
[quote=BuckeyeBilly]
bkellyusa wrote:
I'm an intermediate photographer and probably not even an advanced one. As it is now I've read tons of books, listened to a thousand hours of instructive videos and bought at least 5 five course on photography. I started as an absolute beginner about 3 years ago. I'm now at a point where I am buying instructional material that spends a lot time going over stuff I already know. What's next? What books or other instructive material would help me get to the next level. I'm already studying books on art but I don't know if I have the best ones for photography. Please advise?

I didn't read through all the posts so if my comment has already been said, then pay special attention to it. Look up the photographers for National Geographic and see what they have to say about getting to their level. I'll start you off with Joel Sartore, one of the best. In this article, there are links to other NG photographers so check out their stories, too. Basically, he says the same thing as many others: it takes practice AND persistence. Good luck!

http://www.joelsartore.com/about-joel/common-questions/becoming-national-geographic-photographe/
I'm an intermediate photographer and probably not ... (show quote)


Oddly enough I am listenng to a 24 lectures by Joel Sartore now.

Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 02:42:05   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
pithydoug wrote:
I love Peterson's book(s). One will thoroughly and easily learn about your camera, light, especially the exposure triangle. excellent for starters. That said, it's far cry from a tutorial on composition. There is big difference between taking a properly exposed picture vs. one with good composition and exposure. Shooting hundreds or thousands of photos will help take an accurate photograph but to achieve that next step, assuming that is the goal, you need to work with the pros and/or have your work critiqued by pros.

Pick just about any active FB page. You will find a small cadre of excellent photographers within and the rest ok and seldom ever improving composition. All too often people judge their skills by the number of likes they get. FB Friendship and com-positional quality are different.

Basically saying you need to know what to practice!!!
I love Peterson's book(s). One will thoroughly and... (show quote)


I am looking for some online group to get my photos critiqued.

Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 02:45:05   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
camerapapi wrote:
"Photography and the Art of Seeing" by Freeman Patterson.


That's one of my favorite books. I've had it for awhile.

Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 02:47:03   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
bobmcculloch wrote:
On a more serious note than my last reply, you need to do several things ,
#1 reading all the how to's that you can and using the info to improve your own technique, both for technical ( exposure etc) and artistic sides. No single book is going to be magic.
#2 looking at good art and photography to help determine your personal style and focus, you need to know what you want to record before you can get good at it, it's being a generalist, realize that your focus can change as time and you progress.
#3 now practice, review what you shot, did you get the result you wanted? better? if not why not? practice some more, what technique helps the most?

could probably come up with more but that should get you started, Bob.
On a more serious note than my last reply, you nee... (show quote)


Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 03:02:27   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
Tom Daniels wrote:
Google Reza the famous NG photographer. I young man spent a day assisting with him. He works with all kinds of camera's loves silver reflectors and
has collection of stuff to add some light. Likes lighting available. Works slow. And spends so much time on the image. Covers for NG.

Popular Photography link:
http://www.popphoto.com/2016-annual-readers-contest-winners-and-finalists?cmpid=enews03022017&spMailingID=28096330&spUserID=ODY3MDY4ODk4MjYS1&spJobID=1000311756&spReportId=MTAwMDMxMTc1NgS2
Photos taken by readers in latest issue. What amazed me was a lot of the cameras were not the latest and greatest etc.

I read Ken Rockwell who has his own way of working and critically reviews. He is comfortable in saying he likes to just shoot and not
get overwhelmed with the setups and technology.

Malcom Gladwells book on "outliers" talks of the 10,000 hour rule. The beatles played in a dingy bar in Germany for months each summer all day long.
It is obvious their talent and the many hours playing set the stage for a music history.

I find my failing is not taking enough time to shoot often enough. I am a creative by profession but find the machines are not simple anymore.
A Nikon F in the 80's I had a couple of settings would choose my aperture and great film and shoot all day for my AV company.

Good luck.
Google Reza the famous NG photographer. I young ma... (show quote)


I live in a smaller community outside of Nashville. Magazines on photography don/t exist where I live so I took your advice and subscribed to Popular Photography.

Good luck to you in your photography efforts as well.

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Mar 4, 2017 03:04:11   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
nytexano wrote:
The idea of the 'next level' likely comes from fixation on technique. What are your goals? Why do you photograph? If the answer to those questions is 'to impress your friends', the only path forward is augmenting your technique with more gosh-golly-gee whiz effects.

Photography without vision is an electro-mechanical-optical recording process. Period. YOU, and how you perceive life, are at the core of 'advanced' photography. Otherwise, you're more likely to become an encyclopedic reproducer of electro-mechanical-optical recording techniques.

It's imperative to be aware of how much merchandising is at the core of what you read about photography. Bigger, better, more expensive. A top-of-the-line 35mm camera capable of delivering the most precision results possible in analogue times could be had, with a couple of lenses, for well-under a thousand dollars to around $2,500. Now, equipment in that same category can put you back for $3,500-12 thousand. Has your earning power been augmented by 300 to 800 percent? I doubt it. And the photographic education industry is, other than for rank beginnings, mostly a racket. You yourself mentioned that you're already aware of redundancy.

If you're sincerely driven to improve as a photographer, as long as you have a solid understanding of the principles of photography, it's time to work on yourself. Should you come across a situation that technically confounds you, find out how to overcome that, and get back to your own view and how to improve it. Otherwise, you'll spend your life over-preparing for what will likely never really be an issue. Or, if your goal IS to impress your friends, continue with learning more gosh-golly gee techniques and effects, and enjoy yourself. There's no crime in shooting superficially for self-gratification.
The idea of the 'next level' likely comes from fix... (show quote)


Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 03:12:07   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
gessman wrote:
I'd decide first if my goals were pro or hobby, freelance or hired, then I'd organize photography in terms of the various divisions of interest and pick my favorite whether it be portraits, sports, wildlife, macro, landscape, nature, weddings, birds in flight, product like food, etc., or some of the major subdivisions of one or more of the major interest areas and then toss my hat into that ring first, drilling down as far as it pleased me before moving on to other interests. You've been mostly advised to go helter skelter into the world and shoot everything but nothing in particular until you become psycho trying to remember what you did last time you shot a cactus flower a year ago. Won't work. Every day brings exposure to new subject matter, different requirements in terms of your skills and equipment, etc. Analyze where your interests primarily lie, get the required equipment to achieve the level where you want to function and specialize. Don't split your interests until you're satisfied that you can repeat your actions and get what you want next time you want to do it. You are not likely to ever achieve a level of expertise that will allow you to just "shoot anything you see" at a level that will satisfy you in the long run because of the new subjects we encounter each and every day. Hone in on where your interests lie and attack it systematically and do what it takes to achieve that.

As a hobbyist, I've been "helter skelter" for nearly fifty years but recently saw that I needed to drop back, pare down, and focus on narrow interests to get the kind of quality I want in my shots and it makes a lot of difference in the outcome. The before and after is amazing. The bad thing is that the number of areas of interest are so massive, diverse, time consuming, require different skills, technique, different equipment, and different energy levels. You have to adjust your desires to the natural resources around you and live with the constraints of your current circumstances unless you plan to and are willing to change them. For instance, deciding you're a wildlife shooter when you live in an area where wildlife is scarce is not a good choice and there are other practical issues that come to bear on your choices, day jobs, finances, transportation, freedom to travel, etc. I'd say your next move is going to come after some serious analysis and soul searching but the last thing you want to do is grab your camera, head out the door, and shoot everything that moves or doesn't. On the other hand, only you know what you want - maybe that would make you happy, a burned out stump here, a rusty ol' pickup there, daily sunsets, etc...
I'd decide first if my goals were pro or hobby, fr... (show quote)


One problem for me is that I love to shoot at night. I don't know anyone who specializes in that so I tend to feel like I am on my own.

One of my best friends is a heavily credentialed photographer. Some of you would know him I am sure. Despite how close we are I do not lean on him for advice. First and foremost he hates post processing so everything I show him that has been post processed is a problem. Since I photograph at night so much all of my pictures have been enhanced.

My best friend is an incredible photographer. The trouble is he has never studied it seriously. He would help me and he does but he's at a point where he has no real explanation for what he does. If you ask him why he did something like he did it his response will be "cause it looks good." Drives me nuts!

Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 03:16:27   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
rattlesnakeron wrote:
As soon as I get farther along with the book on Palo Duro Canyon I will post some pictures. I have a meeting with my publisher on Wednesday and he wants to see as much as I have done. The book is due to come out next November. I will publish some later, and the heading will no post processing

I promise you that every picture in the book and that I post have had no processing. I still use a Gossen Luna Pro hand-held light meter. I make the decisions about how my pictures turn out. Most folks let the camera make the decision.

National Geographic buys from me because they know they do not have to do ant work on my pictures. Yes, i am one of those free-lance photographers that broke the ice with NG.


I have no idea what SOOC images are. I will watch the video.
As soon as I get farther along with the book on Pa... (show quote)


I have a fiend like you in that photography comes easy to him. He has a nice camera but he doesn't rely on expensive lenses to get the photos he wants. He's also very good at post processing. He likes technical stuff and he's very good at it and along with that he is a very talented, artistic person to begin with.

Thanks

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Mar 4, 2017 03:20:26   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
windshoppe wrote:
Some very sound advice here. One of the most important things I learned early on in my profession (teacher/musician) was the efficacy of stealing -- finding the people who were successful and stealing their best ideas. In attempting to incorporate those ideas into my own work I found that most often I would modify them to fit my goals. I continue to unabashedly steal to this day. That includes my photography work.


Guitarist Ronnie Montrose was a friend and associate of mine. He once told me that "Amateurs copy form others but professionals steal it."

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Mar 4, 2017 04:53:15   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
I think all you need to do is to see your situation more simply.

First ask yourself "Do I have an eye for it?". The thing is, if you do have an eye for it you can be self-taught for the most part. If you feel that you can answer "Yes", the next question is "Do I have a good eye for it?". If you can't confidently say "Yes", just remember that improving your eye is a never-ending learning curve.

I get the impression that by now you're bound to have a good idea of the basics, and ideally you are seeing the so-called "rules" as guidelines rather than absolutes. Your "eye" should tell you when something doesn't look right, and ideally you should be able to trust your eye when you step away from the commonly accepted guidelines. Never forget that being willing to experiment is a necessary aspect of learning and progressing. And being dependent on the so-called rules will most likely lead to stagnation and a very unimaginative output.

The point I'm making is that if you have an eye for it you don't need lots of courses because you just need to get out there and practice and experiment. You're beyond the beginner stage so you can start trusting your own instincts more.

And being a member of a forum like this means you have ready access to feedback and inspiring suggestions (both of these are fertiliser for your budding skills).

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Mar 4, 2017 04:54:26   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
leftj wrote:
Wow! I certainly agree with "Study the light and link it to composition" but "I never use post processing because I do not have to" is little over the top.


Without sounding mean, if you search his posts, he has posted a landscape shot with his initial post. Is it possible that some people never look at other people's work?

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Mar 4, 2017 04:57:22   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
rattlesnakeron wrote:
The use of Light and composition are the two most important things in photography. Study the light and link it to composition.



Best advice ever!!! And here is a link to some young professional landscape artists, who do just that!

http://www.photocascadia.com

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Mar 4, 2017 05:16:24   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Gene51 wrote:
.....take more pictures, and look at the work of others.....

.....Your ability to rely on your own aesthetic sense, developing it along the way, will get you to where you want to go.....



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