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What Trump Has Yet To Learn...
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Feb 27, 2017 17:54:11   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
letmedance wrote:
CLIPPED FROM WIKI

The Times has developed a national and international "reputation for thoroughness" over time.[231] Among journalists, the paper is held in high regard; a 1999 survey of newspaper editors conducted by the Columbia Journalism Review found that the Times was the "best" American paper, ahead of the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, and Los Angeles Times.[232] The Times also was ranked #1 in a 2011 "quality" ranking of U.S. newspapers by Daniel de Vise of the Washington Post; the objective ranking took into account the number of recent Pulitzer Prizes won, circulation, and perceived Web site quality.[232] A 2012 report in WNYC called the Times "the most respected newspaper in the world."[233]

Nevertheless, like many other U.S. media sources, the Times has suffered from a decline in public perceptions of credibility in the U.S. in recent years.[234] A Pew Research Center survey in 2012 asked respondents about their views on credibility of various news organizations. Among respondents who gave a rating, 49% said that the believed "all or most" of the Times's reporting, while 50% disagreed. A large percentage (19%) of respondents were unable to rate believability. The Times's score was comparable to that of USA Today.[234] Media analyst Brooke Gladstone of WNYC's On the Media writes that the decline in U.S. public trust of the mass media can be explained (1) by the rise of the polarized Internet-driven news; (2) by a decline in trust in U.S. institutions more generally; and (3) by the fact that "Americans say they want accuracy and impartiality, but the polls suggest that, actually, most of us are seeking affirmation."[235]
CLIPPED FROM WIKI br br The Times has developed a... (show quote)


Perceptions and facts are not the same thing. You seem to think that the quality of the NYT is determined by the popularity of the NYT among the masses of right wingers, who have made a habit of calling any media outlet that doesn't cater to the right wingnut extremist narrative as "fake news".

For example, a lot of you wingers - tens of millions apparently - are willing to believe blatant lies and Alternative Facts™ that the Liar-In-Chief barfs out. You don't fact check this nincompoop by surveying how many of his followers believe his bullshit. You fact check based on objective reality, not popularity for those false assertions.

The quality of the NYT is determined by their journalistic quality, accuracy, and how well they fact check their articles, not by how many Trump supporters approve or disapprove of the NYT after being exposed to a steady relentless attack on its legitimacy by their cult leader who falsely claims over and over again that the NYT is "failing" and "fake news".

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Feb 27, 2017 17:58:30   #
letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.
 
I simply posted what I found, deal with it. I have no opinions on it as I do not subscribe, I just posted a published opinion. If you read the entire clip it talked about the general decline in trust of the media, not just the NYT.

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Feb 28, 2017 17:41:08   #
romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI
 
What I don't understand is why do all members of the press refer to illegals as "immigrants"? My parents were immigrants- they applied for residency, entered legally from Canada and became US citizens. We may have "law abiding illegals" living in the US, but they are NOT IMMIGRANTS by the definitions of our Federal law. there is a difference!

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Feb 28, 2017 18:14:35   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
romanticf16 wrote:
What I don't understand is why do all members of the press refer to illegals as "immigrants"? My parents were immigrants- they applied for residency, entered legally from Canada and became US citizens. We may have "law abiding illegals" living in the US, but they are NOT IMMIGRANTS by the definitions of our Federal law. there is a difference!


Is this seriously the biggest concern you have with the press? Whether they use "immigrant" to refer to undocumented immigrants? Wow. Your life must be pretty boring.

(now I predict you will go on a rant about why the term "undocumented" is unacceptable to you as well )

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Feb 28, 2017 20:08:19   #
skylane5sp Loc: Puyallup, WA
 
Keenan wrote:
Is this seriously the biggest concern you have with the press? Whether they use "immigrant" to refer to undocumented immigrants? Wow. Your life must be pretty boring.

(now I predict you will go on a rant about why the term "undocumented" is unacceptable to you as well )


It's all about perceptions you idiot. And truth. Something you would never understand.

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Feb 28, 2017 20:10:02   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
skylane5sp wrote:
It's all about perceptions you idiot. And truth. Something you would never understand.


There's my little scooter trash stalker, desperate for attention. Like my shadow, wherever I go, he's right behind me, every thread.

Better be careful. If I stop too suddenly, your nose will be right up my butt.

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Feb 28, 2017 20:13:34   #
slocumeddie Loc: Inside your head, again
 
There is no room.....your head is already planted shoulder deep.....sorry about that PB.....

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Feb 28, 2017 20:16:26   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
slocumeddie wrote:
There is no room.....your head is already planted shoulder deep.....sorry about that PB.....


Another 12 year old right winger? What else is new?

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Feb 28, 2017 20:20:40   #
slocumeddie Loc: Inside your head, again
 
There is nothing new from you.....just the same rancid ejecta.....

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Feb 28, 2017 20:38:22   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
romanticf16 wrote:
What I don't understand is why do all members of the press refer to illegals as "immigrants"? My parents were immigrants- they applied for residency, entered legally from Canada and became US citizens. We may have "law abiding illegals" living in the US, but they are NOT IMMIGRANTS by the definitions of our Federal law. there is a difference!


The dictionary definition of "immigrant," is 'someone who moves to another country with the intention of living there permanently.'

Therefore, the use of the term you point out is absolutely correct.

And I further point out that it is dictionaries that define words, not Federal Law.

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Feb 28, 2017 20:40:34   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
skylane5sp wrote:
It's all about perceptions you idiot. And truth. Something you would never understand.



As I pointed out responding to another post, the use of the term 'immigrant' is dictionary accurate, and therefore truthful.

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Mar 1, 2017 10:18:54   #
skylane5sp Loc: Puyallup, WA
 
Twardlow wrote:
As I pointed out responding to another post, the use of the term 'immigrant' is dictionary accurate, and therefore truthful.


So you see no distinction between legal and illegal as regards to immigration?

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Mar 1, 2017 10:33:11   #
FRENCHY Loc: Stone Mountain , Ga
 
Twardlow wrote:
The dictionary definition of "immigrant," is 'someone who moves to another country with the intention of living there permanently.'

Therefore, the use of the term you point out is absolutely correct.

And I further point out that it is dictionaries that define words, not Federal Law.



Try getting in any country as immigrant using only a dictionary you dork !!

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Mar 1, 2017 11:03:22   #
Checkmate Loc: Southern California
 
Twardlow wrote:
The Opinion Pages | EDITORIAL

The Immigration Facts Donald Trump Doesn’t Like

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD. FEB. 25, 2017


Let’s be clear: The moral case against President Trump’s plan to uproot and expel millions of unauthorized immigrants is open-and-shut. But what about the economic cost? This is where deeply shameful collides with truly stupid.

The Migration Policy Institute reported in 2013 that the federal government spends more each year on immigration enforcement — through Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the Border Patrol — than on all other federal law enforcement agencies combined. The total has risen to more than $19 billion a year, and more than $306 billion in all since 1986, measured in 2016 dollars. This exceeds the sum of all spending for the Federal Bureau of Investigation; the Drug Enforcement Administration; the Secret Service; the Marshals Service; and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

ICE and the Border Patrol already refer more cases for federal prosecution than the entire Justice Department, and the number of people they detain each year (more than 400,000) is greater than the number of inmates being held by the Federal Bureau of Prisons for all other federal crimes.

That is blank-check, steroidal enforcement — and Mr. Trump and the Homeland Security secretary, John Kelly, want more.

The size of the Border Patrol more than doubled in the 1990s and doubled again after 9/11. Mr. Trump ran on a pledge to expand the patrol and triple the size of ICE; Mr. Kelly has obliged. His enforcement memos last week seek to increase the force by 10,000 ICE officers and 5,000 Border Patrol agents.

Or maybe more, if you consider the administration’s trial balloon, recently floated, to mobilize 100,000 National Guard troops and add them to the mix. Such an effort would surely exceed, in scale and futility, President Woodrow Wilson’s decision to send the Army and that National Guard to the Southwest to fruitlessly chase Pancho Villa in 1916. How much will it all cost? Mr. Trump isn’t saying, if he has bothered to check.

Mr. Trump also talks about a 2,000-mile, double-thick, very high wall along the border from San Diego to Brownsville, Tex. There are already 700 miles of fencing on the border, plus watchtowers, sensors, floodlights and razor wire, and boots and all-terrain vehicles on the ground and drones in the air. In 2009 the Government Accountability Office estimated the cost of the existing fence at $2.8 million to $3.9 million per mile, but that was for the relatively easy stretches.

Estimates of the full price of Mr. Trump’s great wall vary. He said it would cost $8 billion, then changed that to $10 billion to $12 billion. “Fat chance,” the MIT Technology Review said last October, finding Mr. Trump guilty of “bad math” and placing the real figure at $27 billion to $40 billion for 1,000 miles.

But wait — didn’t Mr. Trump also say the cost to America would actually be zero, since he would force Mexico to pay for the wall, even though Mexico says it won’t? He did. But then he said Mexico would reimburse us for the wall, which is to say … who knows? Mr. Kelly’s memos include a plan to catalog United States aid to Mexico, suggesting that he is looking for money to raid for a Trump wall fund, and that this so-called wall remains firmly in the realm of delusion.

Which won’t stop the flow of money out of Washington. One example: The Homeland Security inspector general reported in 2014 that the Border Patrol had spent $360 million over eight years on drones but found “little or no evidence” that the drones made the border more secure.

Although facts are of little interest to this White House, all this budget-busting border mania is essentially for nothing. Illegal immigration from Mexico has trailed off in the last decade. And according to the Pew Hispanic Center, the net flow across the border is now less than zero.

Wait, there’s more. All the people Mr. Kelly rounds up will have to be detained and deported at taxpayer expense. Congress requires the Homeland Security Department to maintain about 34,000 immigration detention beds, at an estimated annual cost of $2 billion, or $5.5 million a day. Adding thousands more cells and beds will surely send that bill — like the profits of the private-prison contractors who have been cashing in on all this misery — through the roof.

Now let’s examine the cost to the economy.

If you do back-of-the-envelope calculations, you’re gonna need a big envelope. The American Action Forum last year estimated that expelling all unauthorized immigrants, and keeping them out, would cost $400 billion to $600 billion, and reduce the gross domestic product by $1 trillion.

Mr. Trump describes immigrants as rapist-murderer-terrorists, but what they really are is a pillar of the American economy, producing a net benefit of about $50 billion since 1990.
Farms and restaurants, hotels, manufacturers, retail businesses — all sectors of the economy benefit directly or indirectly from immigrant labor.

As for taxes, unauthorized immigrants pay them, and if they work off the books, they pay into the system without taking out. They don’t collect Social Security and don’t qualify for food stamps or other benefit programs. They pay sales and property taxes, and since they are generally younger and healthier than the native-born population, they strengthen the safety net. The Social Security Administration estimates that unauthorized immigrations pay about $13 billion a year into Social Security and get only about $1 billion back.

It’s ridiculous to have to explain this to the president, but: If you take a population of 11 million people out of the country, or force them deeper underground, the economy will not be healthier. If you have to find foster parents for millions of abandoned American children of deported immigrants, society will not be stronger. Shrink our immigrant-rich economic sectors, send all that entrepreneurial energy to Canada and Mexico — America will not be better off.

Pull immigrants and refugees out of the declining Rust and Bible Belt cities and towns that they have been repopulating and revitalizing. Bleed the immigrant populations of New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. Who benefits? Not America.

While we wait for Mr. Kelly to achieve his boss’s bleak vision, we will have created a population of increasingly vulnerable, exploited noncitizens and Dreamer youths whose educations hit a dead end after high school. All that intellectual and economic potential, the prospect of rising incomes and tax payments, will have been squandered.

But squandering is the whole point. The “deportation force” may or may not hit its 11 million target, the wall may or may not stretch from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico, but terror and intimidation have already spread through immigrant communities. And this is what the nativists who have been schooling the president want.

The larger costs to the economy, and the dire human toll, do not concern them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/opinion/the-costs-of-mr-trumps-dragnet.html?ref=opinion
The Opinion Pages | EDITORIAL br br b The Immigr... (show quote)


NYT, mostly pablum for the simpletons who quote their alt left wing diatribes. Suck it up buttercup, you Bama Brown Shirters are losing the war.

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Mar 1, 2017 11:17:09   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
skylane5sp wrote:
So you see no distinction between legal and illegal as regards to immigration?


"Immigration" is a word you can find in the dictionary, a word with genuine meaning among educated and responsible people who value communication and understanding; it means someone who moves to another location, planning to live there forever.

You could look it up.

If that meaning is not sufficient for what you want to say, you can clarify it: 'undocumented immigrant' would say nicely what I think you're trying to get at.

But the correct meaning is important for this reason: genuine immigration movements (documented or not) are unstoppable. They sweep away things and people who stand in their way. That may be good or that may be bad, but it happens.

You'll notice 20,000,000 native Americans didn't have a chance against the white man when he "immigrated," forcibly taking over their nation and killing very nearly 100% of the original inhabitants.

There is not a fence in the world that the poor, hungry and frightened cannot go around, over (as 40% of them do) or under. We have tried to keep drugs from crossing that border for decades--unsuccessfully. We may stop about 10% of those illegal drugs. Why do we think we can keep people not carrying drugs out when we can't stop drug deliveries?

There are several examples in Europe of the magnitude of their migration, and you can only try to control it, or resist unsuccessfully; we see it every day.

The terrified of the world willingly risk the possibility of death in order to escape certain death for themselves and their children where they now live.

How can you stop that?

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