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Beyond the Rule of Thirds
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Jun 1, 2012 08:50:08   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Festina Lente wrote:
Most photographers are familiar with the ubiquitous "Rule of Thirds" for composing photographs. It is often the difference between a great photograph and one that is just OK.

Some of UHH's more experienced photographers are probably familiar with another more powerful composition tool, the Fibonacci Ratio. Also called the "Golden Mean", "Phi", "The Fibonacci Spiral", or the "Divine Proportion", it has been used for hundreds of years by ancient artists and more recently by renowned photographers.

For those who use Adobe's Lightroom (versions 3 or 4) there is a very handy but apparently relatively unknown or unexplored Fibonacci Ratio overlay. Adobe calls it the "Golden Spiral" and it is an overlay you can use when doing final cropping on an image.

To access it use | View | Crop Guide Overlay | Golden Spiral |. The rule of Thirds crop guide is found here also along with some others, but, the Golden Spiral overlay can be a very useful tool as you crop an image for final presentation. It also helps you keep an even more sophisticated composition tool in your mind as you take photographs out in the field.

Honing this artistic skill is what helps separates photographic Tyros from Masters. If it were easy, everyone would be using it. It isn't easy. With everything else we have to be aware of when taking a hopefully great photograph, the Fibonacci Ratio is one of the most significant techniques to use and one of the most difficult to master.

Has anyone taken a photo that used the Fibonacci Ratio that they would like to post?
Most of us learn best by example.
Most photographers are familiar with the ubiquitou... (show quote)

Thanks. I'll look for that in LR4.1.
quote=Festina Lente Most photographers are famili... (show quote)



I dont' think it was said but; to activate the crop tool you hit the hotkey "R", and to cycle through the grids you just push the hotkey "O" on your keyboard when the crop tool is open.

To spin the current crop overlay you push shift+O

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Jun 1, 2012 09:10:15   #
Niko65 Loc: Colorado
 
See this video for the different composition techniques. http://youtu.be/vDbQLL_BcR4

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Jun 1, 2012 09:42:49   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
rpavich wrote:
jerryc41 wrote:
Festina Lente wrote:
Most photographers are familiar with the ubiquitous "Rule of Thirds" for composing photographs. It is often the difference between a great photograph and one that is just OK.

Some of UHH's more experienced photographers are probably familiar with another more powerful composition tool, the Fibonacci Ratio. Also called the "Golden Mean", "Phi", "The Fibonacci Spiral", or the "Divine Proportion", it has been used for hundreds of years by ancient artists and more recently by renowned photographers.

For those who use Adobe's Lightroom (versions 3 or 4) there is a very handy but apparently relatively unknown or unexplored Fibonacci Ratio overlay. Adobe calls it the "Golden Spiral" and it is an overlay you can use when doing final cropping on an image.

To access it use | View | Crop Guide Overlay | Golden Spiral |. The rule of Thirds crop guide is found here also along with some others, but, the Golden Spiral overlay can be a very useful tool as you crop an image for final presentation. It also helps you keep an even more sophisticated composition tool in your mind as you take photographs out in the field.

Honing this artistic skill is what helps separates photographic Tyros from Masters. If it were easy, everyone would be using it. It isn't easy. With everything else we have to be aware of when taking a hopefully great photograph, the Fibonacci Ratio is one of the most significant techniques to use and one of the most difficult to master.

Has anyone taken a photo that used the Fibonacci Ratio that they would like to post?
Most of us learn best by example.
Most photographers are familiar with the ubiquitou... (show quote)

Thanks. I'll look for that in LR4.1.
quote=Festina Lente Most photographers are famili... (show quote)



I dont' think it was said but; to activate the crop tool you hit the hotkey "R", and to cycle through the grids you just push the hotkey "O" on your keyboard when the crop tool is open.

To spin the current crop overlay you push shift+O
quote=jerryc41 quote=Festina Lente Most photogra... (show quote)

Great! I just did that. More notes for me to write to myself.

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Jun 1, 2012 10:18:15   #
photopop44 Loc: Roun Drock, Texas
 
Here is a connect to plugins. I don't understand the plugin part but the rest of the tutorial is very enlightening. As I understand the Golden Triangle concept more the photo I posted fits into the concept better than I originally thought.

http://powerretouche.com/Divine_proportion_tutorial.htm

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Jun 1, 2012 10:42:10   #
titan1 Loc: SC Lowcountry
 
I don't see it under VIEW in Lr4????

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Jun 1, 2012 14:50:38   #
Ziza Loc: USA
 
JAW wrote:
http://i45.tinypic.com/fbjkoz.jpg

No plugin that I know of - capture the shape and make it a templet.


No need to make a template. There is indeed such a plug-in. Check the link below.

http://powerretouche.com/Divine_proportion_tutorial.htm

PSE10's redesigned Crop Tool now includes a Golden Ratio overlay, which is based on Fibonnaci numbers.

PS CS6 users can take advantage of two Crop Tool overlays: Golden Ratio and Golden Spiral.

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Jun 1, 2012 15:19:19   #
gym Loc: Athens, Georgia
 
Yet another reason why I'm NOT an engineer.

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Jun 1, 2012 18:57:13   #
JAW Loc: LA
 
Hi Ziza,

Unfortunately, not everyone has PSE version 10 in their arsenal, so I thought it best to error on the side of those that may not have the current version (either Mac or PC) and give them the opportunity and ability to use a templet - which can be use by an older version - it (templet) will not have the white background but will have a transparent background - therefor, it's just a matter of dropping the templet on top of your photo and seeing where the emphasis (rule of thirds) sits and decide on where to crop your photo if wanted.
Understand - this only works if the templet has a transparent background and you can place it on top of your current photo so you can see what the rule of thirds might do for your photo.
To do this, you need some sort of PP application (Elements, Photoshop, of something similar) that allows you to accomplish this task. If you need the "Rule of Thirds rotated or enlarged over your photo - use the "free transform" (a part of PP) to solves the problem.

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Jun 1, 2012 19:46:42   #
docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado
 
JAW wrote:
Hi Ziza,

Unfortunately, not everyone has PSE version 10 in their arsenal, so I thought it best to error on the side of those that may not have the current version (either Mac or PC) and give them the opportunity and ability to use a templet - which can be use by an older version - it (templet) will not have the white background but will have a transparent background - therefor, it's just a matter of dropping the templet on top of your photo and seeing where the emphasis (rule of thirds) sits and decide on where to crop your photo if wanted.
Understand - this only works if the templet has a transparent background and you can place it on top of your current photo so you can see what the rule of thirds might do for your photo.
To do this, you need some sort of PP application (Elements, Photoshop, of something similar) that allows you to accomplish this task. If you need the "Rule of Thirds rotated or enlarged over your photo - use the "free transform" (a part of PP) to solves the problem.
Hi Ziza, br br Unfortunately, not everyone has PS... (show quote)


this is all wonderful - but what is the point? If one is going to be able use this "golden mean" template to compose their images then the only "template" one needs is the one inside your head.......cuz otherwise you ain't learning nothing - ain't learning to see...

BUT if playing around with the template on the computer will in time get this "blue print for perfect compositional rules" inside your head I guess maybe that's time well spent.....Somehow I don't think that's the point though is it?

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Jun 1, 2012 19:53:28   #
Niko65 Loc: Colorado
 
Excellent point Docrob. There come a point where the human must take over and be creative on their own.

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Jun 1, 2012 23:39:03   #
Ziza Loc: USA
 
docrob wrote:

this is all wonderful - but what is the point? If one is going to be able use this "golden mean" template to compose their images then the only "template" one needs is the one inside your head.......cuz otherwise you ain't learning nothing - ain't learning to see...

BUT if playing around with the template on the computer will in time get this "blue print for perfect compositional rules" inside your head I guess maybe that's time well spent.....Somehow I don't think that's the point though is it?
br this is all wonderful - but what is the point?... (show quote)


docrob, excellent point! I totally agree.

The time invested (wasted?) in creating such a template and applying it would be better invested in training our brains to "see" the golden mean. Eventually our eyes will follow suit.

How many of us go around applying Rule-of-Thirds templates? We have learnt how to use our brain and eyes to "see" it, without having to rely on a template "crutch".

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Jun 2, 2012 10:39:40   #
photopop44 Loc: Roun Drock, Texas
 
On the topic of learning/crutch or computer template/mind template; I think we see a natural composition of mountains, trees, buildings or whatever and say this looks good, take a photo, bring it home and compare with a template and can say "It looks good because it fits the template". What do we do when we need to take a photo of some subject to document that we were there or for someone to remember and it doesn't look good. Or how can I arrange the composition to take a good picture. I'm most thankful that the subject was opened up and I've got a new tool in my bag.

My disappointment is that we didn't get to see some examples of good natural or controlled composition.

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Jun 2, 2012 10:42:56   #
docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado
 
photopop44 wrote:
On the topic of learning/crutch or computer template/mind template; I think we see a natural composition of mountains, trees, buildings or whatever and say this looks good, take a photo, bring it home and compare with a template and can say "It looks good because it fits the template". What do we do when we need to take a photo of some subject to document that we were there or for someone to remember and it doesn't look good. Or how can I arrange the composition to take a good picture. I'm most thankful that the subject was opened up and I've got a new tool in my bag.

My disappointment is that we didn't get to see some examples of good natural or controlled composition.
On the topic of learning/crutch or computer templa... (show quote)


just look around

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Jun 3, 2012 04:05:14   #
Ziza Loc: USA
 
JAW wrote:
Hi Ziza,

Unfortunately, not everyone has PSE version 10 in their arsenal, so I thought it best to error on the side of those that may not have the current version (either Mac or PC) and give them the opportunity and ability to use a templet - which can be use by an older version - it (templet) will not have the white background but will have a transparent background - therefor, it's just a matter of dropping the templet on top of your photo and seeing where the emphasis (rule of thirds) sits and decide on where to crop your photo if wanted.
Understand - this only works if the templet has a transparent background and you can place it on top of your current photo so you can see what the rule of thirds might do for your photo.
To do this, you need some sort of PP application (Elements, Photoshop, of something similar) that allows you to accomplish this task. If you need the "Rule of Thirds rotated or enlarged over your photo - use the "free transform" (a part of PP) to solves the problem.
Hi Ziza, br br Unfortunately, not everyone has PS... (show quote)

JAW,

Thanks for the detailed information! I appreciate it, but it just happens I am very familiar with templates and Photoshop Elements.

I have been using Photoshop Elements since version 4; have taught Photoshop Elements; and have written many tutorials especifically for this program.

In my sessions devoted to cropping an image I do talk about the Rule of Thirds and allow my students to crop their images with the aid of the Crop tool Overlay options in Photoshop Elements 10 (Rule of Thirds and Golden Ratio).
However, as our sessions progress I slowly wean them from such crutches. I want them to "see" the Rule of Thirds with their brains and their eyes. One of their final assignments is to crop an image of my choice with the Crop tool set to the "None" Overlay. As I usually have only a few students at one time I give each one a different image and they are to use my laptop to do the cropping (under my watchful eyes). Then we check the results against cropping done with the Rule of Thirds/Golden Ratio Overlay.

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Jun 3, 2012 07:58:11   #
Festina Lente Loc: Florida & Missouri
 
Very interesting observations and I really appreciate reading them.
Getting this stuff in one's head is an ongoing learning experience and we all learn differently.
(For example, how many of you can see the benefits of cropping an image on one side or the other in your head and how many prefer to hold up a straight edge or their hand to blank out the possible crop?) Templates aren't all bad.
I for one am glad we all learn and see things differently. (well, most of the time I'm glad about that....)

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