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photographing police actions
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May 13, 2012 11:10:22   #
Iowegan
 
Mytherwyn wrote:
Patrick is right in most respects...I am a cop too...And being an Investigator I "may take you camera as evidence" is dependent on several factors. But I DO NOT need a warrant in the county I work in to seize evidence.

Not too long ago I was pursued and pulled over by a police officer because I pointed a video camera at him. He asked for mine and my wife's drivers license after the stop. I told him who I was and to quit being silly and he went away. Had that been another person who knows how far he would have gone. THAT could be the cop you photograph one day.
Patrick is right in most respects...I am a cop too... (show quote)


Years ago, I worked for a major railroad. I was called to test & document the grade crossing equipment at the "accident". Yes, this is a Court approved procedure, and I had been trained to do so, and to testify, if necessary.

Yeeaahhhh, the accident. Numerous police from different agencies, local, county, state, EMT, etc.
I show up in unmarked railroad work vehicle, and immediately told to scram on initial contact by deputy.
I advise him, I am a railroad tech, called by network OPs, to test and report on involved safety equipment.
Again, with the attitude, telling me to get the hell out of there, I could do this later, etc.
Nothing doing, he refused to allow me access to the site.

I was forced to contact OPs, report this "incident", and about 2 hrs later, was allowed on site to do my job.
I moved my vehicle out of the way, and stayed there.
I was speaking with a State Trooper while there, and asked him if he could/would over-ride, and he declined to do so, not wanting to step on baby toes.
But he did tell me, he knew Deputy XYZ had a woody for this railroad, though he didn't know why.

Were they all like deputy dogg?
Nope, the rest were always nothing but courteous, informative and ready to assist when possible.
EXCEPT this time, which wouldn't have interferred with what they were doing at all.

And, yes, I always had a camera with me, and was taking pictures of the site, as it was, just after I arrived.

Per standard practice, I would also take extremely detailed notes of everything observed, and, with the film, would copy it all, and turn everything over to the railroad investigator (detective or claim agent).

Some of the accidents & pictures were quite, graphic, and not something you'd want to see, if you had a weak stomach.

Absolute worst thing I ever saw(documented) at an crossing "accident" was a suicide.
A guy laid his head on one rail, ankles over the other...AMTRAK came along at 79MPH.

Yeah, I believe people should be aware of what's going on, and documenting it via vid or photos, that this is the best shield against inappropriate actions of and by police.

Sometimes, you don't want to photograph what is going down when the police converge.

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May 13, 2012 11:12:47   #
Goldwinger Loc: Boynton Beach Florida
 
Mermade wrote:
One of the guys in the http://motorhomediaries.com/ was videoing the officer who stopped the guys in Mississippi. It is legal to video/photography officers in the line of duty in Mississippi. Check out their website to see how the officer erased the video and returned the camera. Later, the guys had the an expert recover the video to show the reality of what happened during the stop. I photographed wrecks for insurance companies in my 20's to make extra money. As a paralegal for the past 23 years, I've photographed more "legal" evidence than anything else. I have only had one problem with an officer over the years. I gave up and moved on. It wasn't worth the hassle.
One of the guys in the http://motorhomediaries.com... (show quote)


If they show the video you are talking about I was not able to find it .

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May 13, 2012 11:13:15   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
donrent wrote:
Of course its legal , as long as you do not interfer with the police doing their duty... Don't try and do any "close up" pic taking or they'll be on you quickly...


The bullying behavior of cops I have experienced in other settings indicates that a vast majority of them will instantly holler that the photography's interfering with how they discharge their duties, or is evidence and will take it on the spot. Legal rights mean nothing when the official hand of the government itself routinely disregards them. Moreover, with the recent rightward swing of jurisprudence in America, do not expect even the titular right to photograph a public event to continue. The Indiana Supreme Court ruled that it is illegal for a citizen resist an "unlawful" police entry. "Unlawful" is legal understatement for "Illegal." The Indiana justices think that the violated citizen should allow whatever ensues after the intrusion, then attempt to correct things through the courts. You can imagine how much correction a court that handed down such a ruling is likely to make.

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May 13, 2012 11:20:25   #
Mermade Loc: Mississippi
 
Sorry. It looks like the video had been on YouTube and has now been terminated. I watched it as it was developing and thought it would still be available.

Goldwinger wrote:
Mermade wrote:
One of the guys in the http://motorhomediaries.com/ was videoing the officer who stopped the guys in Mississippi. It is legal to video/photography officers in the line of duty in Mississippi. Check out their website to see how the officer erased the video and returned the camera. Later, the guys had the an expert recover the video to show the reality of what happened during the stop. I photographed wrecks for insurance companies in my 20's to make extra money. As a paralegal for the past 23 years, I've photographed more "legal" evidence than anything else. I have only had one problem with an officer over the years. I gave up and moved on. It wasn't worth the hassle.
One of the guys in the http://motorhomediaries.com... (show quote)


If they show the video you are talking about I was not able to find it .
quote=Mermade One of the guys in the http://motor... (show quote)

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May 13, 2012 11:30:08   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I've never hesitated to stop and photograph any potentially newsworthy situation. The only place I've been hassled is Scottsdale, Az. There is nothing they can do legally, but they continue to question me, and then let me on my way. Though I do have a law firm I'd rely on, who seem to specialize in taking action on behalf of the photographer.

The attached photo was taken at a scene, which when I arrived had 12 police officers with guns drawn and three individuals with arms held high. This had potential. So, I stopped, stayed in the public R/W, and outside the area coned off. Yet, the officer in the center of the photo chose to divert his attention from an arrestee and yell at me that I was in a very dangerous place. There were non-officer people close to the scene than I. I suspect my dangerous position was being behind a camera.

I continued photographing the scene until the arrestees were placed in vehicles. I then quickly left the scene. I've been "harassed" every time I've attempted to photograph this sort of thing in Scottsdale. None of the other departments have said anything to me. It could be that Scottsdale is more sensitive due to a lawsuit regarding police actions that was videoed some time ago.



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May 13, 2012 12:02:12   #
ggttc Loc: TN
 
Having been a newspaper photographer for more than a few years a long time ago...I was sent to take pics of things I didnt want to really see

As "gator" said (in another thread)...around Christmas...lots of Christmas fires..and unless they paid you.. who would want to take pictures of houses burning on Christmas Eve...

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May 13, 2012 12:25:13   #
myts10 Loc: SE Ohio
 
omnila wrote:
My ? is ,is it legal for me to listen to my scanner and show up at a police action and photograph them? maybe some pro's could shed light on this?


A few states make listening to a scanner illegal, in most it is legal. The catch phrase in the law is that you may not use anything heard for “personal gain”. So if you hear of a situation on the scanner, go to the scene and take pictures, than sell those shots, you would be in violation of state law.

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May 13, 2012 12:35:28   #
WNYShooter Loc: WNY
 
Here in NYS, it is illegal to have a scanner in your vehicle, however, Federal Law preempts NYS and local laws as long as you are a FCC licenced Ham operator and you are using a transceiver (not just a receiver), even if they operate outside of the Ham bands.

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May 13, 2012 12:36:43   #
gregoryalanmccorkle Loc: Seattle, Washington
 
As a photonournalist I'm always around police. The first thing I do is identify myself and way I'm there. Of course having credentials always helps.

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May 13, 2012 12:40:24   #
Deewheat
 
PatrickTheCop wrote:
TRUTH: As long as you are shooting from a place where you have a legal right to be (i.e publi property or private property with permission) and not impeding an investigation or police operation you can take all the photos you like. Also, an officer cannot sieze or impound your camera legally as evidence until they have obtained a warrant. The US Supreme court has recently opined all of the above.

REALITY: Police do not like being filmed or photgraphed doing their job for some reason. I am one and it has never bothered me but the majority of my brothers in blue just don't like it. That said, there are many police officers out there that truely believe they can tell someone they cannot take photos of them, a crime scene or some other (photographic) scene and WILL seize your equipment, arrest you, cite you or try to intimidate you. Obviously, in light of Supreme Court decisions, you will ultimately prevail and get your camera back. The question is, is it worth it to you to go through all of that and getting it resolved (sometime MUCH) later when you encounter an officer that doesn't know the law?

My advice is shoot what you like from a position you have a right to be. If an officer approaches you and tells you to stop photographing decide how to proceed based on the demeanor he presents to you. If (s)he comes off as rude, arrogant or confrnational decide to walk away and then file a complaint with the departments administration OR argue with him and risk a lengthy vindication you won't initially win. If the officer seems reasonable in his approach to you I suggest a polite reminder to him(her) that you are on public property (or private property w/ permission as the case may be)taking photographs of events unprotected by privacy laws.

Hope this helps you make an informed decision.
TRUTH: As long as you are shooting from a place wh... (show quote)


Patrick,

I think some of your fellow officers do not want to be "memorialized", as it were, for a couple of reasons. For one, a pic captures only a single moment in time. It takes that moment out of context and may well not reflect what is actually happening. Additionally, a moment....no, a split second...of distraction from what is going on can easily cost someone their life.

Having done many ride alongs and ambulance runs in places where violence is the norm rather than the exception, I can well understand an officer not wanting someone popping off pics when what they really need to be doing is getting out of danger themselves. In many street situations that can ultimately cause the officers to have yet another victim to care for.

It's a matter of officer safety and public safety, and as you well know, and civilians don't always recognize subtle clues that all he!! is about to break loose.

I'm not saying that there are not cops who are jerks. There are. But most of them are just men and women who are trying to do their jobs and keep folks safe, and having distractions can and do interfere with that.

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May 13, 2012 13:01:58   #
sundancer2004 Loc: oak island, nc
 
Nothing like showing a little respect, when your in trouble, who do you call? A plumber?

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May 13, 2012 13:22:33   #
BUDDY36 Loc: Tennessee
 
omnila wrote:
My ? is ,is it legal for me to listen to my scanner and show up at a police action and photograph them? maybe some pro's could shed light on this?


omnila..It will depend on the action that is going on. A far as taking pictures my suggestion is not to get in the way and if you are TOLD not to take pictures that you respect that request.
Bottom line; you should not get in the WAY of what is going on.

Can you say telephoto lens?

Buddy 36 ( former KPD )

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May 13, 2012 13:22:48   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
Mytherwyn wrote:
It is legal in my state (Tennessee) and depends on what you photograph when you arrive. If there is no expectation of privacy then there is no problem. With that being said I can say that if you beat me to a crime scene and photograph a dead person lying in the street with a knife sticking out of their chest I may confiscate your camera gear as evidence...If it is not evidence then after the trial you will get it back. .


That's not legal. At least not in the US.

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May 13, 2012 13:43:42   #
Mudshark Loc: Illinois
 
Mytherwyn wrote:
It is legal in my state (Tennessee) and depends on what you photograph when you arrive. If there is no expectation of privacy then there is no problem. With that being said I can say that if you beat me to a crime scene and photograph a dead person lying in the street with a knife sticking out of their chest I may confiscate your camera gear as evidence...If it is not evidence then after the trial you will get it back. That is an extreme case I grant you but it COULD happen. If you publish a crime scene photograph (small as it may seem)and it causes embarrassment to someone (say a loved one burning in a wreck) another extreme case then you could be liable...or not. That is a loaded question you asked. Hope this helps.
It is legal in my state (Tennessee) and depends on... (show quote)



quantum leaps, massive stretching...

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May 13, 2012 13:49:06   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
Merlin1300 wrote:
There are good cops, and there are jack-booted thugs.
Just can't tell what you'll meet wearing the uniform.
The cop CAN tell you to stop taking photos and move on.
IF you don't do what he tells you, you will be arrested & camera confiscated for failure to comply.


Not legally unless you are impeding his duties/interfering with his job/investigation.

He might decide to take your camera and arrest you, but if a cop did that to me, it would be worth my time to sue the city, and the police department for damages and get a Canon 5D3 and a few L lenses.

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