bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY

I don't think so, have you ever not been able to do something you wanted to do? That would be my test.

Bobbee

Ron, we are talking about deleting sub-files out from under a DB node structure physically and not going through the DB GUI. In my 40 years of experience with databases this would hose a database. At this point you have to go look for a backup. I am not talking about what people have named or have the impression of a database. I am involved with many softwares that use database technology as the foundation for their file systems, sync process and transaction delivery. I can assure you, if you go in there and muck with the files you will bring that puppy to it's knees.

As an example, NYCTA uses certain software stacks in there operations. One ingenious admin came in at 7:02AM, while I was on the ferry, and renamed one subdirectory in the file system. The entire system fell. The senior admin had me on the phone on the ferry, as I am walking off the ferry asking him to verify things from the long list in my head I ask him is this there, he goes NO CAN DO, it is not there. I say WTF, then we dig deeper. We find the original file system hiding in /tmp, renamed. We push it back and rename it to it's original and got the system back up. Now digging through the audit logs he finds who did this and sez. Need to go talk to my manager.

This software product is based on a database architecture.

jgitomer Loc: Skippack Pennsylvania

A word of caution.

Now that Microsoft is automatically applying operating system upgrades if you are using unsupported software you run the risk of not being able to access your images and data when Microsoft upgrades your operating system since the supplier of any no longer functional software is under no obligation to upgrade their software.

fjrwillie Loc: MA

I have been using PaintShop Pro for the last several years.My original purchase was around 60.00 and have gone thru 2 upgrades since v5. Now on V8. The upgrades cost around 40.00. So my total cost for 4 years in 140 about the cost of 1 year subscription to Photo Shop Cloud. I believe they have at least 95% of the functionality of Photo Shop but that is just a guess.

Since 2012 I have capturing in both RAW and JPG rarely using the RAW files except for when I had what I thought was an exceptional picture. I recently bit the bullet on my laziness and have gone to converting RAW file to an image file.

With that said, a fellow UHH member suggested RAWTHERAPEE for a RAW processor. This software is free and I can't imagine anyone needing more functionality than it provides. It easily processes the RAW files and automatically sends them to PaintShop Pro, where I make further refinements. Note I could easily save the finished images to TIFF or JPG in Rawtherapee, leaving out PSP all together.

RAW files can be converted within PSP, I just chose to try the Rawtherapee route and happy I did.

In summary, take a look at PaintShop Pro (PSP) ( http://www.paintshoppro.com/en/ ) and Rawtherapee ( http://rawtherapee.com/ )My .02 on the matter.

Willie

Oh then there is the add ins for further processing, but we will leave that for another thread.

texashill Loc: Texas Hill Country

Not sure :-) What I love so much about this forum is that I find out about things that I didn't know I didn't know.

But as far as I know, Paint Shop Pro has served me well for 16 years. I mostly use the Fill Light.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

LR has ways to change file names and delete files in its database. I'm not implying that I do that directly in the database, but working through LR it is easy to do that.

Not sure why you'd want to work directly with the database.

It is true that if you rename or delete a file outside of LR, then LR can't work with it until you tell it where the file went. That is one thing that people who don't know how LR works have most trouble with.

G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK

You can use Rawtherapee and darktable . both are freeware.
Lightroom defaults some of its actions to photoshop or PSE. Awkward if you do not use those. It has a catalogue system that many people find difficult to set up logically so that search parameters are meaningful and also by acting outside of lightroom you can appear to 'lose' your images from its catalogue. So it can be quite demanding in needing a standardised workflow. It certainly isn't a programme that you can easily swop and change as you progress through the learning of it.
WIN10 seems to be causing all sorts of problems with its own image viewer and other minor irritations so at present I would either wait a while and see what the MS outcome is or try freeware and save your cash till the dust has settled down.
have fun

G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK

You can use Rawtherapee and darktable . both are freeware.
Lightroom defaults some of its actions to photoshop or PSE. Awkward if you do not use those. It has a catalogue system that many people find difficult to set up logically so that search parameters are meaningful and also by acting outside of lightroom you can appear to 'lose' your images from its catalogue. So it can be quite demanding in needing a standardised workflow. It certainly isn't a programme that you can easily swop and change as you progress through the learning of it.
WIN10 seems to be causing all sorts of problems with its own image viewer and other minor irritations so at present I would either wait a while and see what the MS outcome is or try freeware and save your cash till the dust has settled down.
have fun

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Get Photoshop Elements instead.

Elements also has tons of third party support, is a lot easier to learn to use and is more of a stand-alone software that borrows a lot of the major features from both Lightroom and Photoshop.

In fact, LR and PS individually are not full-featured software programs. LR is a powerful image cataloging, organizing and management tool, with minimal, rapid, mostly global image adjustment and optimization tools. It's not really designed to take images all the way to the finish line. PS, on the other hand, is the Mac Daddy of all image adjustment and optimization tools, with tons more capabilities for that purpose than LR and the ability to finish images to a very high degree... But PS has minimal , rather primitive cataloging, organizing and management capabilities.

In other words, LR and PS are sort of like two sides of a coin. Someone needing to both manage high volumes of images and finish them to a high degree including commercial usage will need both programs... and need to spend a year or two of rather intensive study learning to use them well. Some people who only ever make small prints or share their images online get by with LR alone... Meanwhile some other folks who only shoot small numbers of images but finish them to a higher degree, plus have other means of organizing, searching and cataloging their files might be fine with PS alone.

LR is still available as a stand-alone... although Adobe has started to be slow with updates for LR6 and will discontinue support at some point. To be able to work with some of the very most recent cameras' files, you would need LR CC. PS CS6 is already getting hard to find... and when you do it's likely to be expensive (especially if not able to upgrade from an earlier version). And, Adobe has already discontinued all support for it. PS CC has some additional features, too. So, there really isn't a lot of choice any more, but to go with the subscription software and pay your monthly fee (which I'm sure Adobe will jack up in price eventually, just like cable TV providers).

Elements, on the other hand, is a stand-alone with perpetual license that covers both the management and finishing aspects working with images. It's sort of a lite version of both LR and PS. It doesn't have all their features... but it has the ones most photographers are likely to use. It's an "8-bit limited" application... which basically means that it only can save 8-bit files such as JPEGs (though it can handle higher bit count RAW files just fine and is kept up to date with more recent cameras). This actually is fine for most peoples uses... nearly all printing, Internet sharing, etc. only requires 8-bit files. It's only some commercial applications and extremely high end work that might need 16-bit files, such as TIFFs and PSDs.

Elements also has three user-selectable interfaces: beginner, intermediate and expert modes. You can start with one and advance to the other... or switch back and forth between them at any time. There isn't any sort of similar user support in LR and PS. In comparison, LR might be considered "very, very expert"... while PS is "very, very, very, very expert". With either of them, plan on spending a lot more time learning to use them well (especially Photoshop itself).

For example, Elements has a cloning/healing tool that's more similar to Photoshops very precise one, able to work right down to pixel level... than to the rather crude cloning/healing brush in Lightroom. And, you can work in layers and masks in Elements to make targeted adjustments, almost the same as PS... which you can't do in LR. On the other hand, Elements has more cataloging and image management capabilities than Photoshop.

In fact, Elements is a good way to get started to eventually step up to LR and PS... if you ever find that necessary.

Personally I use PS CS6 and LR6 on my primary editing workstation. I used to have LR on a laptop, too... but will probably be using Elements on it instead now (not sure if my current version of LR6 is licensed to use on multiple machines, the way my older version was). I've been working with Photoshop since version 4, back around 1995, and with Lightroom since the first version of it was introduced about ten years ago.

I experimented a bit with some of the freebie software over the years... but it just doesn't seem to work as well... at least for me. I'd stick with Adobe products, but am not a fan of subscription software and may need to shop around for something else in the future (I think LR6 and PS CS6 will serve all the cameras I'm likely to be using for the next few years, though.)

So, for most people I'd recommend the current version of Elements (now 14). It's updated every couple years and seems to only be offered in full versions.... but at $100 or so for those, works out to about $50 a year (or less, depending upon the user).... which is less than half the annual PS/LR CC subscription cost... and one heck of a lot easier to learn to use!

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Ok but where is the 16 bit support for raw files?

John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN

There is a remedy. I always make a duplicate of an image file and do PP on the copy. One question always to ask is: does the application write changes 'on the fly' or only 'on saving' and govern yourself accordingly.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

As you point out, if you are not moving, renaming, or deleting images and folders directly from within the program, Lightroom, does not know where the imported images are located. There are Lightroom tools that allow you to fix that problem when users inadvertently perform file management outside of LR, but they are certainly not intended as part of the normal workflow. Why would you say "LR has ways to change file names and delete files in its database.I'm not implying that I do that directly in the database"? Perhaps I misunderstood what you were implying, but where else would you do it?

The other thing I wish people would avoid is calling Lightroom a database because I think that leads to the mistaken idea that the images and folders are somehow located within Lightroom. A classic database would contain all the data being referenced in one or usually more tables. The only "data" in the LR catalog are the pointers to the imported images, the overlay instructions, the image history and some other things such as virtual copy information, but, not the folders and images themselves.

djlouden Loc: Ocala, Florida

LR has served me well since the very first version, I like its' logic. Saying that, I expect that in the future Adobe will send it down the subscription only path despite their "we have no plans to do that" statements, and that is where we part paths. Some like the subscription path and that's fine if it works for them. It just doesn't suit me even after I tried the plan. Stand alone only for me.

I'm now leaning towards adopting Capture One but still I find myself coming back to what I know - Lightroom.

Best advice I can give is, give Adobe's trial version of LR as well as other brands such as Corel and Phase One a look and see what fits your own logic. Check reviews on the learning curve for each one.

Happy Shooting

Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA

Forget Lightroom. Get Photoshop. Photoshop does everything Lightroom does and much more without trying to scan and organize your photo files. I had both and dumped LR once I got familiar with Photoshop. I also deleted the free Photoshop elements that was installed with my computer.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

If you do anything outside of any software parameter you mess with the whole thing. This has nothing to do with with DBase itself.

The only thing in a computer that knows where anything really is/are the drives MFT. Unless your software uses that (and all the time), you cannot fully depend on it to know where anything is accurately. The DBase is not at fault, the user is (as your example demonstrate).

Not one piece of end user software does that, that I am aware of. Even the disk maintenance titles do not do it (as far as I know).

I really get the feeling we are not seeing the same thing or that we are seeing the same thing but do not quite understand each other.