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Photography vs art
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Feb 3, 2016 23:40:32   #
Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts
 
JD750 wrote:
Some would say photography is art others would say it is not, that it is technique. Yet I suggest that, like the particle-wave duality in physics, photography is both art and technique. It is both left and right brained. Depending on the subject one or the other may dominate. So which is the harder part for you?


All art involves technique. A painter uses technique with their brush, so much so that their brush technique is distinguishable. I think you are confused also on the hemispheres of the brain and what their functions are. The Left side is generally accepted as the Analytical Side, Language, Math, facts, Computations. Where as the Right Side is genrally accepted as the creative side Art, Imagination, Intuition, Feelings and also Motor Skills which would be technique(both hemispheres actually control Motor Skill but it is accepted that Artistic Motor Skill comes from the right). So Technique and art reside in the same side of the brain. But one can not function solely on its own. For example, the tune of music comes from the right side but the processing of the lyrics comes from the left. The thoughts and feelings of a poem come from the right but the words are processed in the left. I do not understand what your point is?

Anyone who dismisses Photography as not being art does not know what art is! By definition it is art!

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Feb 4, 2016 00:50:25   #
dickwilber Loc: Indiana (currently)
 
I watch a program on PBS where a man goes around the country interviewing artisans. They vary from quilt makers to woodworkers to glass blowers, to ... They all display a good deal of creativity. At the end of each program the interviewee is asked whether they think of themselves as an artist or a craftsman; invariably the reply is a combination, when they are recreating something they have done many times before, it is craftsmanship, but when they are creating something new and different, it is more art.

My photography is like that. I have a degree of proficiency and can take a pretty good portrait with little effort. That is craftsmanship! But I am an artist when I am able to tease out a special smile, or to illustrate my subjects personality in a new or striking manner.

But when a person with their first DSLR tries portraiture and through following a U-Tube video and experimentation come up with a good portrait of their neighbor, a portrait just like thousands I have made, are they not doing art? Then, a thousand portraits later, they may be a craftsman.

But maybe, after all, art is just a collaboration between artist and viewer?

In any event, I am sure that someone who declares that it isn't art because the creator didn't use oil paints on canvas, or didn't spend hours reworking the image in PhotoShop, is giving us - what did Rongnongno call it ... crap!

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Feb 4, 2016 02:44:17   #
forjava Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA
 
Well, photography can be accidentally important.
And, photography can be political expression.
And, it can blend with other arts.
And it can be history and propaganda and fraud and commerce and click bait...

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Feb 4, 2016 03:01:20   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
houdel wrote:
My point exactly. Both had as frame of reference a point of knowledge which they were able to extend to a creative solution. One cannot think outside the box if one does not know there is a box.

You know how to read but you lack the thing called 'understanding'.

This is not worth the time.

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Feb 4, 2016 03:30:37   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Rongnongno wrote:
You know how to read but you lack the thing called 'understanding'.

This is not worth the time.


And you don't know how to take a decent picture. What's worse than that on a photography forum?

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Feb 4, 2016 03:35:31   #
forjava Loc: Half Moon Bay, CA
 
Agreed again.
A charming and delicious deprecation it is!
Thanks for putting it on my RADAR.
With no PC baggage, no coarseness, and no explicit sexual freighting.
Our current vernacular, "retard" is problematic weak tea in comparison.

Rongnongno wrote:
If you pull french on me you know the connotation of 'debile' in modern language.

If someone is called a 'debile' it implies 'debile mental' (mentally deficient ~ usually on purpose so no excuse). There is no direct translation that expresses the disdain, dismissal, contempt implied when using this term. 'Con' does not even come close when it comes to being an insult... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Could not stop myself. Worse: did not want to stop. I'm horrible. Never stop, this is how we learn.
If you pull french on me you know the connotation ... (show quote)

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Feb 4, 2016 06:07:14   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
burkphoto wrote:
See my earlier comment about standards in academia... It sometimes takes a generation of old "standards bearers" DYING OUT for old, arbitrary "standards" to die off! Van Gogh was either ahead of his time, or breaking the rules of "art" in his day (whatever they were!). If the prevailing class of art lovers doesn't like something about your art, or "defines" it a certain way, you are trapped.

I remember being told by a professor in 1975 that modern multi-track audio recording was neither a valid art form, nor an acceptable method of musical composition. The senile professor who told me that retired a few years later. His replacement soon installed a recording studio on campus... Thank God for the opportunities his music majors have today!

What was once scorned is now ubiquitous. Multi-track recording capability comes standard with every new iPhone and Mac, as GarageBand software. It's as much an art form as photography or sculpture.
See my earlier comment about standards in academia... (show quote)


As usual, you are on target and yet see the big picture! Good analogy! :thumbup:

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Feb 4, 2016 06:29:50   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
forjava wrote:
Agreed again.
A charming and delicious deprecation it is!
Thanks for putting it on my RADAR.
With no PC baggage, no coarseness, and no explicit sexual freighting.
Our current vernacular, "retard" is problematic weak tea in comparison.

If you want an example of 'debile' on UHH you need not but look just above your post.

This debile has been posting the same thing over and over over a period of months w/o realizing that I do not care. Since he truly is deficient mentally (debile) he will continue banging his short comings all over demonstrating to all how far gone to the deep end he is.

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Feb 4, 2016 08:29:19   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
lamiaceae wrote:
As usual, you are on target and yet see the big picture! Good analogy! :thumbup:


Thanks. I see this stuff in several contexts. It's pretty much the same across many disciplines.

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Feb 4, 2016 08:53:02   #
houdel Loc: Chase, Michigan USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
You know how to read but you lack the thing called 'understanding'.

I understand much better than you do. You can't even support your own argument. You state "'Creativity' exists only in 'young' untrained minds", then as an example of creativity cite an engineer - minimum 4 years college - and a doctor - 4 years pre med, 4 years med school + residency - as examples of creative thinkers. Hardly "'young' untrained minds"!!!

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Feb 4, 2016 09:19:56   #
MW
 
houdel wrote:
Just to further obfuscate this issue, were a person to create a sculpture using a 3D printer, would that sculpture be "art"?


Was he just copying David or was he creating something new (even if inspired by David)?

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Feb 4, 2016 09:24:50   #
bcrawf
 
Jaackil wrote:
All art involves technique. A painter uses technique with their brush, so much so that their brush technique is distinguishable. I think you are confused also on the hemispheres of the brain and what their functions are. The Left side is generally accepted as the Analytical Side, Language, Math, facts, Computations. Where as the Right Side is genrally accepted as the creative side Art, Imagination, Intuition, Feelings and also Motor Skills which would be technique(both hemispheres actually control Motor Skill but it is accepted that Artistic Motor Skill comes from the right). So Technique and art reside in the same side of the brain. But one can not function solely on its own. For example, the tune of music comes from the right side but the processing of the lyrics comes from the left. The thoughts and feelings of a poem come from the right but the words are processed in the left. I do not understand what your point is?

Anyone who dismisses Photography as not being art does not know what art is! By definition it is art!
All art involves technique. A painter uses techni... (show quote)


Those matters--right, left--are concerned with the mechanics of the mental process but are not determining factors of art, though certain patterns of brain activity may be more characteristic of an art-making activity.

The question, 'Is photography art?' is not usefully posed. It asks if a medium of image-making is art. It should be obvious that, for ANY medium you may name, it is not the medium that makes something made in or with it art. We must take into account quite a complex of qualities of an object (just to use, for discussion, a material example) to decide to regard it as art. Next, we recognize its relative quality--outstanding, weak, masterful, and so on. After all, did Michelangelo regard all of his works to be equally successful? Don't we notice the difference between a great performance and a beginning student performance of piano composition? And don't we distinguish between the quality of compositions? It is the same in the case of other media--painting, sculpture, photography, dance, and so on.

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Feb 4, 2016 09:27:31   #
MW
 
Darkroom317 wrote:
Not really Marcel DuChamp pushed it to start with by turning a urinal a different way singing it and entering it into a show as a sculpture. Yes the ice cream machine functions in the same but it is without any meaning or context.

From an interview

"Rail: Are the painting machines a formalization of the artist’s practice? And by painting machines I’m including “SCUMAK no. 1” (1998) and “Painting Manufacture Unit (PMU)” (1999 – 2000). What exactly do you accomplish by making a machine that creates a work of art?

Paine: It’s always about asking what it means that this machine is making art. What occurs when there is a series of displacements, such as the artist’s practice onto the museum or gallery, or the displaced moment of a creative act, the displaced moment between creating the program and beginning the work? Each machine sets up a language of elements and rules by which those elements are utilized. I create the apparatus, I create the system, I create the controls, but then it’s almost like that is the beginning of a second part of the process which is really about potential. For instance, the same program will always create two entirely unique works due to natural processes. That’s because thermodynamics, room temperature, drying, and cooling events are all natural forces present and not within the machine’s control. So there is this collision between industry and nature, and control and the uncontrolled that I find interesting.

Rail: Where does the art reside?

Paine: It’s in the displaced contradiction that the origin of those natural forms comes from mechanistic processes. It’s in the dialogue between what is carefully prescribed and what is naturally happening, and it’s in the translation of geologic forces into the form of physical paintings."
Not really Marcel DuChamp pushed it to start with ... (show quote)


DuChamp is not a good example. The urinal was mostly unimportant. What he did was actual a kind of performance art and a commentary on the "art world". It needs to be considered in the context of the time and recognize the act was in the Dada/Fluxxus tradition.

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Feb 4, 2016 11:29:50   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Rongnongno wrote:
If you want an example of 'debile' on UHH you need not but look just above your post.

This debile has been posting the same thing over and over over a period of months w/o realizing that I do not care. Since he truly is deficient mentally (debile) he will continue banging his short comings all over demonstrating to all how far gone to the deep end he is.


Prove me wrong - post a picture that is at least decent. You can't. Now there isn't anything wrong with lacking the ability, except when you try to make yourself sound like an expert. Lol - your d810 is holding you back. I know anyone who challenges you is an idiot. Typical narcissistic trait. You can be read as easily as a coloring book. You are nothing special. If I could, I'd send you a case of EXLAX. You need it.

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Feb 4, 2016 11:46:35   #
PhotoArtsLA Loc: Boynton Beach
 
In today's automated everything world, the autistic can be artistic, and often are, which is good. Photography used to involve a lot of craft, the shoot, the choice of film, the chemicals, the darkroom, the first set of "soups" for the film, push, regular, or pull processing, the drying of the film, the cutting of the film, the enlarger, the various grades and textures of photo paper, the prepared "soups," which might include a ferricyanide "snap" tray or bleach station under a sodium vapor safelight, the fixing, the washing, the ferrotyping (and requisite heat settings) and so forth. And that was just black and white... now in color... we used to have dye sublimation printing, and boy, was it grand.

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