LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

I've been stacking off and on for several years using Helicon initially for two reasons: Helicon was available for Macs and it would accept raw files. The first is no longer true and since I've seen some very nice work (primarily hand-held) using Zerene. So 30 day trial….

My thoughts: most of the time the flaws (in my work) are due to sloppy work on my part. :oops: Either I missed the start or end point, I did not have sufficient overlap (30% seems ideal), or I had some movement.
Advantages of Helicon: it interfaces better with my tethering software (no surprise since Helicon made it), it allows raw file conversion, and it (at least in my tests) is faster. Of course, faster may not be better: maybe Zerene is a bit slower because it's doing "more" with the files.
Advantages of Zerene: Although I haven't tested it so much with hand-held, it appears to do a superior job with the edges, i.e. a cleaner transition between background and the object. This results in a more realistic background. Zerene has appears to have more tools for touch-up.

Conclusion: I'll likely add Zerene to my software "portfolio" and use it as my primary stacking software. Although I don't like "redundancy" in my software, Martin has told me that I'm allowed to have more than one. So here are two examples. Neither is without flaw-- the flaws are likely mine…not Zerene's. :thumbup:

Sand @ 4x cheap objective with 68mm extension

(Download)

cropped from a 2:1 with 105

(Download)

martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida

If you take out all of your mistakes Allen, this would be Perfect... Just kidding, looks good from here. I'm a Tiff guy have never tried Raw with Zerene. If you have to shot higher than ISO100 I would Denoise before running thru, as Zerene really picks up on the noise. I always use the Align and stack combo, saves a little time. D-Max for most everything.. This software is Very forgiving, as long as your in a Straight line, turn a little sideways and Haloing out the yen yang. Hope you like..

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

So do you shoot jpeg fine and save as TIFF prior to stacking?

martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida

Yeah, everything goes into Aperture first, saved as a TIFF, then I start my stacking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_(software)

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

Thanks. Sounds like I'm on the right track.

Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.

I tried converting raw to TIFF for Zerene and thought it was too much trouble (personally), though I do see the reasoning. I have had pretty good luck simply sending unprocessed, high res. jpegs directly to Zerene. Then saving the stack as a TIFF to process.

This is one of my best examples of how well this works for me.

Stacked from jpeg (set at neutral) in camera

(Download)

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

What does this mean?

Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.

Most cameras have in camera jpeg settings such as "standard, neutral, vivid, landscape, sharpening, contrast, etc. I set mine to the least amout of in camera processing so, "neutral".

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Understood, but these settings effect ONLY the camera-generated JPGs, not raw files.

Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.

'Xackly! I thought it was clear I was referring to jpegs only, perhaps not :| Since I shoot both jpeg fine and raw together, I will use the "neutral and unprocessed" jpegs for stacking. I may rethink this, as a small amount of "in camera" sharpening and contrast would seem to help improve the stack. I really have not spent a lot of time experimenting.

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

You mention raw to TIFF to Zerene, and JPG to Zerene, then converted back to TIFF. A novice may not understand these are two completely different approaches to focus-stacking, unrelated to each other.

Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.

I mentioned I tried raw to TIFF, referring to Martins post about that method and at this point at least, I prefer less steps so, I stack high resolution JPGs at this point.
Once my jpeg stack in complete, I save it as TIFF for any further processing.
I do see how this might have been a bit confusing for someone trying learn. I will try and keep this in mind in future posts :wink: :-)

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Does Zerene handle raw files?

Macronaut Loc: Redondo Beach,Ca.

I took this from the Zerene FAQ section:
What kinds of image files will Zerene Stacker handle?
The input and output formats are JPEG and TIFF, the latter in either 8- or 16-bit RGB. In general the most reliable TIFF format is uncompressed; some compressed formats such as 16-bit ZIP are not readable. A few other formats such as PNG and BMP can be read but not written.

Does Zerene Stacker handle raw files?
To process raw files takes two separate steps. First you convert the raw files to some RGB format, typically TIFF, and then you stack the TIFF files.

For highest quality, we recommend converting raw files to 16-bit TIFF using your favorite raw converter and whatever settings make it work the best. After stacking the 16-bit TIFFs, tell Zerene Stacker to save its output also as 16-bit TIFF.

Because 16-bit TIFF files are not compressed and also have deeper pixels than any current raw format, this process retains all of the image quality intrinsic to the raw formats.

Zerene Systems does not provide raw converters. You can download those separately, or use software provided by your camera manufacturer.

If you use Lightroom, then be aware that there's a Lightroom plugin for Zerene Stacker that handles raw conversion automatically. When using Lightroom with the plugin, processing raw files is just a matter of selecting them and doing an Export to Zerene Stacker. See Working with Lightroom for more details about this "Pro-only" feature.

A longer explanation is that no stacking software really works directly with raw files.

The structure of data in a typical raw image file, one value per photosite with color implied by a mosaic Bayer filter pattern, is fundamentally incompatible with the image alignment process that is required for stacking.

Some stacking software deals with this aspect by accepting raw files at the level of the user interface, then converting them to an RGB format in a background process that is easy to overlook and may be difficult to optimize.

Zerene Stacker goes the other route, exposing the conversion process and encouraging users to deal with it as what we think it really is: a key part of the overall workflow that needs to have some attention paid to it in order to get best results.

LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field

Here's what Helicon does: http://www.heliconsoft.com/raw-in-dng-out
I have always uploaded raw files into Helicon. It appears that Helicon converts these to DNG leaving the raw files intact.

Now during my Zerene 30-day trial I've been loading JPGs processing and then saving as a TIFF. One cannot upload raw files directly to Zerene-- or at least I haven't been able to.
I do not claim to be a Zerene "expert".