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Any scholars out there?
Oct 5, 2015 13:42:38 #
If you can send me the whole German document with the clarity and magnitude of the top excerpt, I can probably manage it all. Hindered a little bit because it is folded directly through a line of writing, but I should be able to deduce unclear bits from context. I enjoy this sort of thing...
I should make some progress with the Russian one too, once it is clear and large enough, but I can't do it all!
If you don't find anyone else, please get in touch directly or repost (in sections if need be, as long as they're clear), and I'll enjoy deciphering. But I shall have to keep you waiting just over a week: I'm away from home at present.
I should make some progress with the Russian one too, once it is clear and large enough, but I can't do it all!
If you don't find anyone else, please get in touch directly or repost (in sections if need be, as long as they're clear), and I'll enjoy deciphering. But I shall have to keep you waiting just over a week: I'm away from home at present.
Oct 5, 2015 14:11:54 #
Oct 5, 2015 14:22:06 #
photoshack wrote:
I have several samples included in this post; wondering if any can definitively decipher the writing and tell us what the language is, and any words that can be translated?
My friend is 80 and this is a family document; so far he has not been able to find anyone (even at colleges here) who can read these.
He thinks this is a travel document of some sort. I'm sorry for the low quality images, but his son sent them as phone captures in low res.
My friend is 80 and this is a family document; so far he has not been able to find anyone (even at colleges here) who can read these.
He thinks this is a travel document of some sort. I'm sorry for the low quality images, but his son sent them as phone captures in low res.
Right off the bat the printed part of the second document is Cyrillic in appearance which means it is likely Russian. But the quality of the photo makes it hard to be exact to make such a statement. Higher resolution is needed.
The others are in German but the third document has a Danish Stamp on it so more likely the bottom document is actually Danish. Just having German on the first document does not help with origin as several Countries speak German with different dialects so likely only a linguist familiar with various dialects would be able to identify a region this came from.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:36:22 #
aggiedad
Loc: Corona, ca
The crest on the 2nd document was developed in 1883 Russa. Look up Tzar Alexander lll in wikipedia. 1883 was the year he came to the throne. You wii see that he and predicessors held titles from several scandinavian countries, and his family history is northern Germany based. You may recall that at the time, most of the crowned heads of europe were related , with German ancestory. Wikipedia also has an article showing the development of the russian coat of arms.
This all fits with german words, the coat of arms and the stamp.
This all fits with german words, the coat of arms and the stamp.
Oct 5, 2015 15:40:23 #
The first handwriting note has the date of 26 December 1904 which should offer a couple of hints just in the style the date is written, i.e. day- month - year and the month is spelled out completely...... will work some more on this to see if I can come up with any more hints.
Oct 5, 2015 15:43:08 #
The first handwriting note has the date of 26 December 1904 which should offer a couple of hints just in the style the date is written, i.e. day- month - year and the month is spelled out completely...... will work some more on this to see if I can come up with any more hints.
Oct 5, 2015 16:42:44 #
travelwp wrote:
How come you didn't ask your 80 year old friend what country he came from?
I didnt need to ask. He was born in the US. I am trying to get him to join UHH as he is a photographer too.
Oct 5, 2015 18:27:29 #
photoshack wrote:
I didnt need to ask. He was born in the US. I am trying to get him to join UHH as he is a photographer too.
Would you please ask your 80 years old friend if one of his grandfather (or great grandfather) was Chaim Ruvim Leibov Solovjewsky, who lived in Vinnytsia (Russian Empire) in 1898 (was born in 1878) and had an abnormality at the end of middle finger of his left arm?
At the age of 20 he was short and had black hair, wasn't married.
Oct 5, 2015 19:19:02 #
tsteinert
Loc: Minnesota
The top document looks Russian or uses key letters in the Cyrillic Alphabet which could be a host of countries that use that, alphabet but the primary one is Russian but there are a ton of countries such as the Baltic countries that were part of the former Soviet Union.
The key to the second one is the two kronen stamp. If you can solve that it will lead to the Originator of said document.
If you post it on a Genealogical website and there is always someone that knows from my experience.
The key to the second one is the two kronen stamp. If you can solve that it will lead to the Originator of said document.
If you post it on a Genealogical website and there is always someone that knows from my experience.
Oct 5, 2015 20:37:59 #
photoshack wrote:
I didnt need to ask. He was born in the US.
OK, sorry to intrude.
Oct 5, 2015 22:06:34 #
OldEarl
Loc: Northeast Kansas
tsteinert wrote:
The top document looks Russian or uses key letters... (show quote)
The Soviet Union did not exist in 1974. Many were affiliated with the Russian Empire. However, Estonia and Finland are separate liguistically.
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Oct 5, 2015 23:03:00 #
OldEarl wrote:
The Soviet Union did not exist in 1974. Many were affiliated with the Russian Empire. However, Estonia and Finland are separate liguistically.
Soviet Union existed from 1922 to 1991.
Oct 5, 2015 23:47:13 #
tsteinert wrote:
The top document looks Russian or uses key letters... (show quote)
The stamp doesn't looks like a post stamp. More likely it's Austro-Hungarian Empire (or Danish) duty stamp.
Oct 6, 2015 11:58:51 #
zaidy wrote:
Would you please ask your 80 years old friend if one of his grandfather (or great grandfather) was Chaim Ruvim Leibov Solovjewsky, who lived in Vinnytsia (Russian Empire) in 1898 (was born in 1878) and had an abnormality at the end of middle finger of his left arm?
At the age of 20 he was short and had black hair, wasn't married.
At the age of 20 he was short and had black hair, wasn't married.
This is spot on. The Russian document was printed by decade, which is why you see repeated "189_ goda" in the center near the bottom. (The blank space following 189 was meant to be filled-in with the final digit of the year.)
This and the German documents don't seem to belong together in time, as there is a 6-year gap from 1898 to 1904.
Someone else had mentioned that the German documents use an old orthography. The same is true of the Russian document: it is the old Cyrillic (pre-Communist) orthography, which makes it difficult for modern readers.
You have to remember that at that time, most people were illiterate. Such documents would of necessity be written by bureaucrats.
Oct 6, 2015 17:29:07 #
davidk2020 wrote:
This is spot on. The Russian document was printed ... (show quote)
Well, the orthography didn't change much in 1918, after the revolution. They just removed from old Cyrillic five seldom used letters. For me (Russian is my first language)the main problem in this old Russian passport is the poor quality of the copy and the awful handwriting by a clerk, who fill in this form
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