Using plug-ins with layers
Jul 19, 2015 11:54:38 #
Good morning all,
I have a question regarding using layers with plug-ins and filters. This question is probably based on my ignorance of how layers actually work, so forgive me if is seems a little basic.
Say you have an image on which you want to use multiple filters. I am curious what some of you expert's workflow is. I know it is pretty much standard procedure to create a duplicate layer as the first step. Do you then create additional duplicate layers of the background layer to later apply each filter you want to use? Alternatively, do you use your first filter on the duplicate layer, then create a duplicate of that modified layer to work with the second filter (and so on)? Do you just use multiple filters on the same layer? I am guessing that most people would not use the last option, as it would not allow one to selectively apply the effects of each filter using layer masks and brushes.
I guess, what I am ultimately asking is, in order to selectively apply filter effects using layer masks, do you have an individual layer for each filter, or do you build the effects on successive modified layers? If you use an unmodified duplicate of the background layer for each filter effect, then flatten the image (or merge the layers), does that ultimately give you the same result as applying a filter to a layer, duplicating that layer, using another filter, etc.?
Sorry if this is a convoluted question. Still working hard to understand PS. Long learning curve!
Thanks,
Trent
I have a question regarding using layers with plug-ins and filters. This question is probably based on my ignorance of how layers actually work, so forgive me if is seems a little basic.
Say you have an image on which you want to use multiple filters. I am curious what some of you expert's workflow is. I know it is pretty much standard procedure to create a duplicate layer as the first step. Do you then create additional duplicate layers of the background layer to later apply each filter you want to use? Alternatively, do you use your first filter on the duplicate layer, then create a duplicate of that modified layer to work with the second filter (and so on)? Do you just use multiple filters on the same layer? I am guessing that most people would not use the last option, as it would not allow one to selectively apply the effects of each filter using layer masks and brushes.
I guess, what I am ultimately asking is, in order to selectively apply filter effects using layer masks, do you have an individual layer for each filter, or do you build the effects on successive modified layers? If you use an unmodified duplicate of the background layer for each filter effect, then flatten the image (or merge the layers), does that ultimately give you the same result as applying a filter to a layer, duplicating that layer, using another filter, etc.?
Sorry if this is a convoluted question. Still working hard to understand PS. Long learning curve!
Thanks,
Trent
Jul 19, 2015 12:02:43 #
I am far from being a photoshop expert(though I think I am getting pretty good with it). I often duplicate the background layer, do what I have to do and mask out what I don't want to show.
I used to do an edit, flatten and then do another edit, retaining an untouched copy of the background. But I find the multiple layer approach to work better for me.
I used to do an edit, flatten and then do another edit, retaining an untouched copy of the background. But I find the multiple layer approach to work better for me.
Jul 19, 2015 12:10:26 #
[quote=hlmichel]I am far from being a photoshop expert(though I think I am getting pretty good with it). I often duplicate the background layer, do what I have to do and mask out what I don't want to show.
Thanks for your response. If you want to use a second filter, do you make a copy of the layer you just modified, and apply the filter, or do you apply the second filter on another unmodified copy of the background layer?
Thanks for your response. If you want to use a second filter, do you make a copy of the layer you just modified, and apply the filter, or do you apply the second filter on another unmodified copy of the background layer?
Jul 19, 2015 12:12:23 #
(sorry, this was written re Photoshop Elements; if I confused the issue further, I apologize!)
I'm glad you asked this as I'm still trying to figure out, too. In fact, I asked similar question awhile back; I'll look for the thread and post link so you can read those replies.
Sometimes it has to do with what effect has been applied. I have Topaz Simplify and Detail, and Nik Collection. I might do a Simplify layer, then duplicate that and apply a Nik filter on top, but in a lowered opacity, or different blend mode.
Don't forget about blend modes, because even duplicating the same layer, but applying a blend mode such as multiply will give you an entirely different look. And you can always adjust (pick and choose where and how much on the image the effect is shown*) with masks, and again opacity.
*See some of Treepusher's kitty portraits; he generally leaves the eyes natural, while using lots of blending and effects on the rest.
I'm glad you asked this as I'm still trying to figure out, too. In fact, I asked similar question awhile back; I'll look for the thread and post link so you can read those replies.
Sometimes it has to do with what effect has been applied. I have Topaz Simplify and Detail, and Nik Collection. I might do a Simplify layer, then duplicate that and apply a Nik filter on top, but in a lowered opacity, or different blend mode.
Don't forget about blend modes, because even duplicating the same layer, but applying a blend mode such as multiply will give you an entirely different look. And you can always adjust (pick and choose where and how much on the image the effect is shown*) with masks, and again opacity.
*See some of Treepusher's kitty portraits; he generally leaves the eyes natural, while using lots of blending and effects on the rest.
Jul 19, 2015 12:17:15 #
Here was my topic; now I'm going to re-read and see if I have learned any more since then :)
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-245081-1.html
I am asking for clarification from a couple of folks, but I think what MinnieV means is she duplicates the background layer each time, then once she has a layer of one filter plus a layer of another filter, she will use blend mode, opacity and masks to achieve the desired result from combining those two separate effects.
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-245081-1.html
I am asking for clarification from a couple of folks, but I think what MinnieV means is she duplicates the background layer each time, then once she has a layer of one filter plus a layer of another filter, she will use blend mode, opacity and masks to achieve the desired result from combining those two separate effects.
Jul 19, 2015 12:26:10 #
Trentc wrote:
Each filter use its own layer. Each layer has its own masks (Yes, there are two) and layer options. Layers are additive in the order they arranged (top one first). That is what you may be missing..../...
Notes:
- Some PS CC filters do not work on 16 bit and will require flattening the image color depth in order to create an 8 bit sampling.
- The 'smart objects*' has 'changed' the filter game. Some filters that were not editable can now be modified. Personally I do not use smart object as I do not see the point (My loss?).
---
* Created when you open a file 'as smart object' or within your edit window.
Jul 19, 2015 12:40:14 #
Rongnongno wrote:
Each filter use its own layer. Each layer has its... (show quote)
When you say "additive" does that mean the layers below have an effect on the layers above? In other words, let's say I create 3 duplicate layers of my background layer, and on the first one I use Topaz Adjust, then on the second I use Nik Color Effects, and the third I use a PS sharpening filter. Does the Adjust layer affect the Nik layer, and those two layers also effect the final layer, which is the layer I used the PS sharpening filter on? In effect, the last layer (the PS sharpening layer) shows all the effects of the layers below it?
Jul 19, 2015 14:10:58 #
If you are making duplicate layers, they then no. If you are creating adjustment layers Yes.
Experiment: click on Exposure Adjustment. Now make a Level Adjustment Layer. You should have three layers. Now go back to your Eposure Adjustment. Right click on it. You will see several menu options Select Edit Adjustment. You will be able to bring the exposure up and down effecting the whole deal.
If you made a duplicate layer, then any layer below would not be seen. But You can change the Opacity of the an upper layer (Blending) allowing any effects on the top layer to be reduced. A better layer for this would be a new layer. But this is just for an example.
Let us say you want to paint out a blemish on a photo. You can make a new layer, apply the paint (color) and you notice it's way to strong. Simply select Opacity and bring down the strength of that effect allowing the sub layer to help reduce the over all effect.
Writing as most know is not my strong point but I hope I explained it to your understanding.
Experiment: click on Exposure Adjustment. Now make a Level Adjustment Layer. You should have three layers. Now go back to your Eposure Adjustment. Right click on it. You will see several menu options Select Edit Adjustment. You will be able to bring the exposure up and down effecting the whole deal.
If you made a duplicate layer, then any layer below would not be seen. But You can change the Opacity of the an upper layer (Blending) allowing any effects on the top layer to be reduced. A better layer for this would be a new layer. But this is just for an example.
Let us say you want to paint out a blemish on a photo. You can make a new layer, apply the paint (color) and you notice it's way to strong. Simply select Opacity and bring down the strength of that effect allowing the sub layer to help reduce the over all effect.
Writing as most know is not my strong point but I hope I explained it to your understanding.
Jul 19, 2015 14:13:32 #
Trentc wrote:
No, the one below is modified by the one above.When you say "additive" does that mean the layers below have an effect on the layers above?
Trentc wrote:
In other words, let's say I create 3 duplicate layers of my background layer, and on the first one I use Topaz Adjust, then on the second I use Nik Color Effects, and the third I use a PS sharpening filter. Does the Adjust layer affect the Nik layer, and those two layers also effect the final layer, which is the layer I used the PS sharpening filter on? In effect, the last layer (the PS sharpening layer) shows all the effects of the layers below it?
The effect order is (in your filter creation sequence):
Sharpening + mask
Nik + mask
Topaz + mask
Background copy
Background
They pile on top of each other. In the case you present sharpening in on top because it was created last.
Meaning that the first created is sub-servant to the second which itself is sub-servant to the third...
You can always rearrange the order (drag-drop).
A simpler image:
Make a plate full of pancakes.
The top one is the only one you see from above. It is the last used.
Jul 19, 2015 16:42:25 #
Thank you all for your replies. I am slowing getting it. Last dumb question: What I am hearing is if each effect is applied to an individual layer, then you are only seeing the top layer and the effect of whatever filter you have applied to that layer. I am assuming that when you flatten or merge, then all the effects are applied to the final image and thus become visible...correct?
Okay, this really is the last question...hopefully I am not overstaying my welcome...is it better to create a layer, apply the filter, create a duplicate of that layer, apply the filter, etc. so you can see the cumulative effects of the filters and how the may relate to each other, as opposed to having individual layers for each filter, and not knowing the cumulative effects until you flatten or merge?
Okay, this really is the last question...hopefully I am not overstaying my welcome...is it better to create a layer, apply the filter, create a duplicate of that layer, apply the filter, etc. so you can see the cumulative effects of the filters and how the may relate to each other, as opposed to having individual layers for each filter, and not knowing the cumulative effects until you flatten or merge?
Jul 19, 2015 17:18:44 #
You see the combination of all the filters as you applied them unless you use a mask to control the effects.
You usually keep your file as is as the 'flattening/merging takes place when you export to a format like JPG or PNG. TIFF exports are not flattened.
You usually keep your file as is as the 'flattening/merging takes place when you export to a format like JPG or PNG. TIFF exports are not flattened.
Jul 20, 2015 06:35:55 #
andrew.haysom
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Another useful command relevant to this discussion is Cmd+Opt+Shift+E (on a Mac) which creates a "Stamp Visible" Layer, that is a new Layer that is just the combined effect of all layers underneath.
Jul 20, 2015 07:44:11 #
Layers and Layer masks are the most powerful features of Photoshop and it is in my opinion, the thing that new users struggle with the most. Once you wrap your head around how they work, it opens up a whole new world of creativity. Now as far as "PLUGINS", what Plugin program are you using. NIK,Topaz,OnOne etc?
Jul 20, 2015 09:00:12 #
Rongnongno wrote:
You see the combination of all the filters as you applied them unless you use a mask to control the effects.
You usually keep your file as is as the 'flattening/merging takes place when you export to a format like JPG or PNG. TIFF exports are not flattened.
You usually keep your file as is as the 'flattening/merging takes place when you export to a format like JPG or PNG. TIFF exports are not flattened.
Thank you for your information and insight. I appreciate it!
Jul 20, 2015 09:02:05 #
Fstop12 wrote:
Layers and Layer masks are the most powerful features of Photoshop and it is in my opinion, the thing that new users struggle with the most. Once you wrap your head around how they work, it opens up a whole new world of creativity. Now as far as "PLUGINS", what Plugin program are you using. NIK,Topaz,OnOne etc?
I have the Nik suite, Topaz Adjust, Clarity, Detail and B&W, as well as DXO Filmpack and Viewpoint.
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