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Apr 22, 2015 13:53:58   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
wdross wrote:
Back in about 2001, one the photo magazine writers was preparing an article on the changes due to digital coming on the scene. A lot of the staff talked about camera sizes, processing changes, image storage, etc. But one of the photo editors stated he felt most, if not all, of the middle price range pros would be gone. And he was right. People with a need for quality photographs know one has to pay someone for that knowledge and expertise. Those who can't or won't spend a $100 or more, will get their cellphone out or get their aunt or uncle to shoot the picture with their new P&S camera. I expect that 95%+ of all the photos taken this year will be by cellphones or tablets, not even P&S. On wife's latest travel agent FAM trip, well over 50% of the agents were using their tablets and cellphones for the shots they were going to use on they websites. I was in the minority by a long shot with my camera. Were their photos probably going to be good enough for their websites after some post processing with the available free software out there? More than likely, yes. They didn't need a big earth shaking wall photo. They just needed a photo that would look good enough on a computer screen.
I am sadden by the loss of expertise you described, but I am not surprised. I was one of middle photographers who is "gone", but I will never give up photography. It is nice to revisit one's roots, slow down, and shoot a roll of film. But even I knew back in 2001 that film had become too costly to continue as the leader.
Back in about 2001, one the photo magazine writers... (show quote)


That's an accurate observation!

The advent and confluence and congruency of the Internet, digital imaging, sharing sites, smart phones, and other mobile devices has certainly revolutionized the entire industry.

Most of the school picture companies have consolidated, mostly into Lifetouch. That entire market is shrinking.

Tens of thousands of other professionals have closed their doors, unable to compete, because they are not able to find willing customers.

Almost no one prints anything anymore. Those who do are making just a few to frame, or making really big, fine, art prints to hang on the wall.

Many people who used to buy commercial photography services just whip out their phones. The results ARE good enough for the ephemeral uses of their photos.

Photography has been democratized, and has become just another, albeit somewhat universal, language.

It's still a great hobby.

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Apr 22, 2015 13:59:40   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Bobspez wrote:
Hi Bill,
Thanks for yur posts. I really don't print anything. I just look at it on my 11"x17" lcd screen in 1680 X 1050 resolution, and share my photos on UHH and flickr. And with a lot of effort, PS curves, etc., I can get the digital to match the film closely. See side by side cropped screen shots attached. It's not a big thing. It's just that the Velvia 50 colors were spot on right on the scanned slide, and it took a lot of work to get the digital pic to match those colors and tones, even with a fairly limited color palette...

OOPS... looks like I posted the same film pic side by side. I have to go back into my pics to get the correct side by side pics to compare
Hi Bill, br Thanks for yur posts. I really don't p... (show quote)


Looking forward to seeing the examples.

That work you mentioned can be minimized with reasonably easy changes in workflow...

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Apr 22, 2015 14:12:32   #
Mike N Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska
 
After using film for about 60 years I still have a hard time filing it in the "obsolete folder". About 5 years ago I bought a Nikon D-40 and have used it quite a bit since. Recently added a Canon S-110. My brother who had bought a Nikon F-2 new in '72 and had used it for all of those years "went digital" 10 years ago. "Look at all of the money you save from not buying film." In those 10 years he has probably bought at least 5 new digital cameras "they keep getting better you know". Not sure if he has realized the great savings yet. In the '80's I bought a Nikon R-10 super 8 and shot quite a few rolls of super 8. We still watch them maybe every couple of years. Not so with our betamax, VHS, 8mm etc videos. What are you going to play them on. I worry about our kids or grandkids being able to go back and look over old digital files as I am able to do with old slides. I just uncovered some old slides that my uncle took with his Leica on Kodachrome (back when they date stamped the slides when they processed them) that were date stamped 1951 -1960. They were perfect and a joy to look at. Not sure how to preserve the digital image over time, or are jpegs going to be the next Lotus PCX files. I totally see professional people totally going to the digital format as it produces fabulous results and they might not care if anyone wants to look at them in 10 years or not. I still have my TLR Rolleiflex 2.8f and Nikon f and f4, Canon f1 and Contax G1 and enjoy using them, but I do use my D40 a lot also. Just worry about long term viewing for future generations.

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Apr 22, 2015 14:16:20   #
onyxtiger Loc: Northern California
 
burkphoto wrote:
That's an accurate observation!

The advent and confluence and congruency of the Internet, digital imaging, sharing sites, smart phones, and other mobile devices has certainly revolutionized the entire industry.

Most of the school picture companies have consolidated, mostly into Lifetouch. That entire market is shrinking.

Tens of thousands of other professionals have closed their doors, unable to compete, because they are not able to find willing customers.

Almost no one prints anything anymore. Those who do are making just a few to frame, or making really big, fine, art prints to hang on the wall.

Many people who used to buy commercial photography services just whip out their phones. The results ARE good enough for the ephemeral uses of their photos.

Photography has been democratized, and has become just another, albeit somewhat universal, language.

It's still a great hobby.
That's an accurate observation! br br The advent ... (show quote)


This is sad, but true. All my film photography today is for my benefit only. But even that has fallen by the wayside, as I've had to give up my darkroom.

I still have my Durst 4x5 enlarger and all my El-Nikkor lenses for it. I still have my Sinar f 4x5 camera with all the lenses for it. I still have all my Nikon film cameras, including the old Nikon F I carried in Nam. I also have another Nikon F, 2- F2S's, and a Nikkormat EL. Complete range of prime Nikkor lenses from 24 up to and including a 500 mirror.
I've shot thousands upon thousands of images with those cameras. Mostly B&W.

The only good thing I can say is that with the acquisition of a Nikon Df I can use all my old lenses. And for that, I'm very grateful.

I miss the magic of the darkroom. Will I ever go back? Probably not.
Since retiring, I have neither the space nor the inclination to build another darkroom. I miss the feel of developer and fixer on my hands....yes, I know, I'm supposed to wear latex gloves. Never have, never will. I miss the thrill of the image first developing.
Darkroom and film photography today is almost a lost art. It is certainly a dying art. *Deep sigh*
:cry:

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Apr 22, 2015 15:38:00   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
Hi Bill,
I skrewed up my previous effort to post velvia and digital images side by side in my last post. When I downloaded the composite pic I had posted, I realized I had posted the same D3100 image on both sides. (I couldn't figure out how I had done such an exact color matching in photo shop!)

Below is the correct two pics side by side. Please just note the color and tone, I realize the depth of field caused the film pic to be out of focus on the right edge, and the D3100 image is less saturated than the film image.

Despite my efforts with photo shop curves, etc. to get the digital image to match the film colors and tone, you can see there's still quite a difference in tone, even disregarding the velvia saturation.

Feel free to download the pic and use whatever method to get the left side tones to match the right. I figure if someone as experienced as you can't do it, then there seems no point in me pursuing it any further than I already have.

As I said previously, it's not a big deal .. just a lot of work to try to get the digital colors to match the film colors that are spot on right off the color slide.
Thanks,
Bob

burkphoto wrote:
Velvia IS great film. But if you're not getting the color you want from digital processes, they're not set up correctly! ICC color management is a learned skill, and a process that must be understood fully to master.

If you want to do color management correctly, go to X-RITE's or DataColor's sites. Read their white papers and examine their tools. Take a seminar or two in it. Then adjust your workflow accordingly. There are high end workflow tools and techniques that create incredibly accurate color, especially on inkjet prints.

Yes, if you display images as 8-bit JPEGs in sRGB color space on the web, certain colors will never be rendered correctly. If you print those JPEGs, certain colors will never be rendered correctly.

But if you edit a raw image correctly, save a 16-bit TIFF or PSD in a wide gamut color space, and print that directly to a high end EPSON or Canon printer, using at least 8 pigmented inks and archival quality photo paper, you'll be amazed at what you get! It's enough to satisfy even the most jaded Kodachrome or Velvia fan, most of the time.
Velvia IS great film. But if you're not getting th... (show quote)

Mamiya Sekor f3.5 1500mm lens in daylight on a Nikon D3100 with an adapter, and on a Mamiya 645-1000S with 120 Velvia Slide film.
Mamiya Sekor f3.5 1500mm lens in daylight on a Nik...
(Download)

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Apr 22, 2015 15:56:50   #
katkase Loc: Grapeview, WA
 
ggttc wrote:
As a matter of fact...NO...tried it a year or so ago...would not be happy without my own darkroom...the price of film...developer, enlarger, paper, space and the many other considerations make the nostalgia fade quickly.


A big Amen to that. The reason I got my first digital camera was the fact that I could not afford the film and processing. I got my first digital camera on Ebay a used one. It was an Olympus 3.2 MP camera with an awesome sensor. It lasted five years of continual use until it gave up the ghost. But the colors were great and the macro feature was to die for. Not like the modern ones of today. That camera was 8 years ago. I would love to have that one again.

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Apr 22, 2015 16:20:39   #
ken glanzer
 
If you shoot with a Hasselblad 503 & the wide angle model, Fujichrom & that high resolution B&W film & have 6 backs, a polarizer lens, it will return. More so with a 4/5 i9n order to do all the tilt's etc one can't do woth 120 & 35mm!and use a tripod!I wish I had a scanner for 120 & 4x5 negs.

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Apr 22, 2015 16:27:24   #
ken glanzer
 
If you shoot with a Hasselblad 503 & the wide angle model, Fujichrom & that high resolution B&W film & have 6 backs, a polarizer lens, it will return. More so with a 4/5 in order to do all the tilt's etc one can't do with 120 & 35mm and use a tripod!I wish I had a scanner for 120 & 4x5 negs. The Adams Zone System gives exposur & contrast modification powers not obtainable in Digital.

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Apr 22, 2015 16:28:50   #
Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.
 
oldeman wrote:
After years of digital photography, I'm acknowledging the urge to return to medium-format film work again, specifically thinking about picking up a Bronica. The cost of film and processing is a fact, however. Yet, the image should be equivalent to 50 mp...a great sharp image. Has anyone had any experience returning to the "film roots" of photography?


Yes.... I don't because of the expense of the material. There are times I would dearly enjoy that old familiar chemical smell of the darkroom, but alas... funds won't permit.

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Apr 22, 2015 16:54:02   #
henrycrafter Loc: Orem Utah
 
oldeman wrote:
After years of digital photography, I'm acknowledging the urge to return to medium-format film work again, specifically thinking about picking up a Bronica. The cost of film and processing is a fact, however. Yet, the image should be equivalent to 50 mp...a great sharp image. Has anyone had any experience returning to the "film roots" of photography?


I have 2 film cameras that I still use whenever I can afford the film and processing. My first choice is my Sinar 4x5 monorail view camera with which I use a 120 roll film adapter and my second is my Mamiya RB67.
When I purchased the Mamiya I chose it over the Hasselblad because I like rectangle format and the rotating back. I personally pased on Bronica but many people like them.

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Apr 22, 2015 17:38:47   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
ken glanzer wrote:
If you shoot with a Hasselblad 503 & the wide angle model, Fujichrom & that high resolution B&W film & have 6 backs, a polarizer lens, it will return. More so with a 4/5 i9n order to do all the tilt's etc one can't do woth 120 & 35mm!and use a tripod!I wish I had a scanner for 120 & 4x5 negs.


I purchase my 35mm in bulk and roll my own cassettes. 120 and 4x5 sort of in bulk. I primarily use Ilford Delta 400 for 35mm and FP-4 Plus for 120 and 4x5.

For 4x5 format, I use the BTZS Expo Dev program for determining exposure/development times and, most of the time, a Sekonic L-768DR for exposure metering. 35mm is mostly in camera metering. 120 is either in camera or the Sekonic for metering. I also check consistency of the process by checking negatives with a densitometer periodically.

I process my 4x5 using a Jobo CPE-2, the 120 and 35mm using a CPP-2. I love processing my own film and also enjoy the control that provides in negative contrast range.

After development, I tend to convert to digital using an Epson Perfection 3200 scanner, though I do have a couple of enlargers, if I want to wet print.

Almost all of my, paid to photograph, work is done digitally. The only reason is the turn around time. Though several clients have opted for B&W and then it's film.
--Bob

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Apr 22, 2015 17:46:46   #
valley3photo
 
I would not ever return to film. Have not finished roll two of the film I got several months back.

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Apr 22, 2015 17:48:33   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
valley3photo wrote:
I would not ever return to film. Have not finished roll two of the film I got several months back.


Good. That leaves more for those of us who appreciate and use it.
--Bob

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Apr 22, 2015 17:56:01   #
Budnjax Loc: NE Florida
 
I used to shoot 35mm, ran a darkroom at two tv stations and have a half room full of film cameras, lenses and gear right now. No, I don't miss them. If I did get back into film it might be into large format: 4x5 or larger. I think that might be fun....there's nothing like a 4x5 or larger transparency, IMHO...right subject, of course.

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Apr 22, 2015 18:05:13   #
g8rfan1942 Loc: Ormond Beach Fl
 
oldeman wrote:
After years of digital photography, I'm acknowledging the urge to return to medium-format film work again, specifically thinking about picking up a Bronica. The cost of film and processing is a fact, however. Yet, the image should be equivalent to 50 mp...a great sharp image. Has anyone had any experience returning to the "film roots" of photography?


I have thought of it lately myself. I still have all of my Canon bodies (A-1, AV-1, AE_1 and my first EOS film camera) and think , every now and then, about going back to film as a lark but have not done it. Years ago, as a young boy, my Dad and I used to have a darkroom and enlarger, etc.ad in our basement and spent many hours enjoying our shared hobby. Later in life I would depend on good custom labs to develop and print my shots. Unfortunately, all good things must end and I began shooting digital around 2005. The quality of shots then was barely acceptable but as time and technology advanced, so did my attitude toward digital.

The one thing that keeps me from reverting to film now is that there is not a decent custom film lab available anywhere close to where I live. I know I could send things off but it's just not the same as having a local lab where I could have "face time" with a tech to discuss how I wanted things to be. Anyway, after a long winded answer, I guess my answer is that I will stick to digital and keep my old camera bodies for my descendants so they can try to guess what they were and what they might have been used for.

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