Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Is there a Federal Law?
Page <<first <prev 3 of 6 next> last>>
Dec 29, 2014 07:30:47   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Every photograph has copyright. You don't have to file a copyright with the Federal Government.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

10 Big Myths about copyright explained

An attempt to answer common myths about copyright seen on the net and cover issues related to copyright and USENET/Internet publication.

- by Brad Templeton

Note that this is an essay about copyright myths. It assumes you know at least what copyright is -- basically the legal exclusive right of the author of a creative work to control the copying of that work. If you didn't know that, check out my own brief introduction to copyright for more information. Feel free to link to this document, no need to ask me. Really, NO need to ask.



1) "If it doesn't have a copyright notice, it's not copyrighted."
This was true in the past, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. For example, in the USA, almost everything created privately and originally after April 1, 1989 is copyrighted and protected whether it has a notice or not. The default you should assume for other people's works is that they are copyrighted and may not be copied unless you know otherwise. There are some old works that lost protection without notice, but frankly you should not risk it unless you know for sure.
It is true that a notice strengthens the protection, by warning people, and by allowing one to get more and different damages, but it is not necessary. If it looks copyrighted, you should assume it is. This applies to pictures, too. You may not scan pictures from magazines and post them to the net, and if you come upon something unknown, you shouldn't post that either.

The correct form for a notice is:

"Copyright [dates] by [author/owner]"
You can use C in a circle © instead of "Copyright" but "(C)" has never been given legal force. The phrase "All Rights Reserved" used to be required in some nations but is now not legally needed most places. In some countries it may help preserve some of the "moral rights."

2) "If I don't charge for it, it's not a violation."
False. Whether you charge can affect the damages awarded in court, but that's main difference under the law. It's still a violation if you give it away -- and there can still be serious damages if you hurt the commercial value of the property. There is a USA exception for personal copying of music, which is not a violation, though courts seem to have said that doesn't include widescale anonymous personal copying as Napster. If the work has no commercial value, the violation is mostly technical and is unlikely to result in legal action. Fair use determinations (see below) do sometimes depend on the involvement of money.

3) "If it's posted to Usenet it's in the public domain."
False. Nothing modern and creative is in the public domain anymore unless the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain(*). Explicitly, as in you have a note from the author/owner saying, "I grant this to the public domain." Those exact words or words very much like them.


Some argue that posting to Usenet implicitly grants permission to everybody to copy the posting within fairly wide bounds, and others feel that Usenet is an automatic store and forward network where all the thousands of copies made are done at the command (rather than the consent) of the poster. This is a matter of some debate, but even if the former is true (and in this writer's opinion we should all pray it isn't true) it simply would suggest posters are implicitly granting permissions "for the sort of copying one might expect when one posts to Usenet" and in no case is this a placement of material into the public domain. It is important to remember that when it comes to the law, computers never make copies, only human beings make copies. Computers are given commands, not permission. Only people can be given permission. Furthermore it is very difficult for an implicit licence to supersede an explicitly stated licence that the copier was aware of.

Note that all this assumes the poster had the right to post the item in the first place. If the poster didn't, then all the copies are pirated, and no implied licence or theoretical reduction of the copyright can take place.

(*) Copyrights can expire after a long time, putting something into the public domain, and there are some fine points on this issue regarding older copyright law versions. However, none of this applies to material from the modern era, such as net postings.

Note that granting something to the public domain is a complete abandonment of all rights. You can't make something "PD for non-commercial use." If your work is PD, other people can even modify one byte and put their name on it. You might want to look into Creative Commons style licences if you want to grant wide rights.


4) "My posting was just fair use!"
See EFF notes on fair use and links from it for a detailed answer, but bear the following in mind:
The "fair use" exemption to (U.S.) copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's vital so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to appropriate other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. Are you reproducing an article from the New York Times because you needed to in order to criticise the quality of the New York Times, or because you couldn't find time to write your own story, or didn't want your readers to have to register at the New York Times web site? The first is probably fair use, the others probably aren't.

Fair use is generally a short excerpt and almost always attributed. (One should not use much more of the work than is needed to make the commentary.) It should not harm the commercial value of the work -- in the sense of people no longer needing to buy it (which is another reason why reproduction of the entire work is a problem.) Famously, copying just 300 words from Gerald Ford's 200,000 word memoir for a magazine article was ruled as not fair use, in spite of it being very newsworthy, because it was the most important 300 words -- why he pardoned Nixon.

Note that most inclusion of text in followups and replies is for commentary, and it doesn't damage the commercial value of the original posting (if it has any) and as such it is almost surely fair use. Fair use isn't an exact doctrine, though. The court decides if the right to comment overrides the copyright on an individual basis in each case. There have been cases that go beyond the bounds of what I say above, but in general they don't apply to the typical net misclaim of fair use.

The "fair use" concept varies from country to country, and has different names (such as "fair dealing" in Canada) and other limitations outside the USA.

Facts and ideas can't be copyrighted, but their expression and structure can. You can always write the facts in your own wordsthough

See the DMCA alert for recent changes in the law.


5) "If you don't defend your copyright you lose it." -- "Somebody has that name copyrighted!"
False. Copyright is effectively never lost these days, unless explicitly given away. You also can't "copyright a name" or anything short like that, such as almost all titles. You may be thinking of trade marks, which apply to names, and can be weakened or lost if not defended.
You generally trademark terms by using them to refer to your brand of a generic type of product or service. Like a "Delta" airline. Delta Airlines "owns" that word applied to air travel, even though it is also an ordinary word. Delta Hotels owns it when applied to hotels. (This case is fairly unusual as both are travel companies. Usually the industries are more distinct.) Neither owns the word on its own, only in context, and owning a mark doesn't mean complete control -- see a more detailed treatise on this law for details.

You can't use somebody else's trademark in a way that would steal the value of the mark, or in a way that might make people confuse you with the real owner of the mark, or which might allow you to profit from the mark's good name. For example, if I were giving advice on music videos, I would be very wary of trying to label my works with a name like "mtv." :-) You can use marks to critcise or parody the holder, as long as it's clear you aren't the holder.


6) "If I make up my own stories, but base them on another work, my new work belongs to me."
False. U.S. Copyright law is quite explicit that the making of what are called "derivative works" -- works based or derived from another copyrighted work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of the original work. This is true even though the making of these new works is a highly creative process. If you write a story using settings or characters from somebody else's work, you need that author's permission.
Yes, that means almost all "fan fiction" is arguably a copyright violation. If you want to publish a story about Jim Kirk and Mr. Spock, you need Paramount's permission, plain and simple. Now, as it turns out, many, but not all holders of popular copyrights turn a blind eye to "fan fiction" or even subtly encourage it because it helps them. Make no mistake, however, that it is entirely up to them whether to do that.

There is a major exception -- criticism and parody. The fair use provision says that if you want to make fun of something like Star Trek, you don't need their permission to include Mr. Spock. This is not a loophole; you can't just take a non-parody and claim it is one on a technicality. The way "fair use" works is you get sued for copyright infringement, and you admit you did copy, but that your copying was a fair use. A subjective judgment on, among other things, your goals, is then made.

However, it's also worth noting that a court has never ruled on this issue, because fan fiction cases always get settled quickly when the defendant is a fan of limited means sued by a powerful publishing company. Some argue that completely non-commercial fan fiction might be declared a fair use if courts get to decide. You can read more


7) "They can't get me, defendants in court have powerful rights!"
Copyright law is mostly civil law. If you violate copyright you would usually get sued, not be charged with a crime. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of criminal law, as is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt." Sorry, but in copyright suits, these don't apply the same way or at all. It's mostly which side and set of evidence the judge or jury accepts or believes more, though the rules vary based on the type of infringement. In civil cases you can even be made to testify against your own interests.

8) "Oh, so copyright violation isn't a crime or anything?"
Actually, in the 90s in the USA commercial copyright violation involving more than 10 copies and value over $2500 was made a felony. So watch out. (At least you get the protections of criminal law.) On the other hand, don't think you're going to get people thrown in jail for posting your E-mail. The courts have much better things to do. This is a fairly new, untested statute. In one case an operator of a pirate BBS that didn't charge was acquited because he didn't charge, but congress amended the law to cover that.

9) "It doesn't hurt anybody -- in fact it's free advertising."
It's up to the owner to decide if they want the free ads or not. If they want them, they will be sure to contact you. Don't rationalize whether it hurts the owner or not, ask them. Usually that's not too hard to do. Time past, ClariNet published the very funny Dave Barry column to a large and appreciative Usenet audience for a fee, but some person didn't ask, and forwarded it to a mailing list, got caught, and the newspaper chain that employs Dave Barry pulled the column from the net, pissing off everybody who enjoyed it. Even if you can't think of how the author or owner gets hurt, think about the fact that piracy on the net hurts everybody who wants a chance to use this wonderful new technology to do more than read other people's flamewars.

10) "They e-mailed me a copy, so I can post it."
To have a copy is not to have the copyright. All the E-mail you write is copyrighted. However, E-mail is not, unless previously agreed, secret. So you can certainly report on what E-mail you are sent, and reveal what it says. You can even quote parts of it to demonstrate. Frankly, somebody who sues over an ordinary message would almost surely get no damages, because the message has no commercial value, but if you want to stay strictly in the law, you should ask first. On the other hand, don't go nuts if somebody posts E-mail you sent them. If it was an ordinary non-secret personal letter of minimal commercial value with no copyright notice (like 99.9% of all E-mail), you probably won't get any damages if you sue them. Note as well that, the law aside, keeping private correspondence private is a courtesy one should usually honour.

11)"So I can't ever reproduce anything?"
Myth #11 (I didn't want to change the now-famous title of this article) is actually one sometimes generated in response to this list of 10 myths. No, copyright isn't an iron-clad lock on what can be published. Indeed, by many arguments, by providing reward to authors, it encourages them to not just allow, but fund the publication and distribution of works so that they reach far more people than they would if they were free or unprotected -- and unpromoted. However, it must be remembered that copyright has two main purposes, namely the protection of the author's right to obtain commercial benefit from valuable work, and more recently the protection of the author's general right to control how a work is used.


While copyright law makes it technically illegal to reproduce almost any new creative work (other than under fair use) without permission, if the work is unregistered and has no real commercial value, it gets very little protection. The author in this case can sue for an injunction against the publication, actual damages from a violation, and possibly court costs. Actual damages means actual money potentially lost by the author due to publication, plus any money gained by the defendant. But if a work has no commercial value, such as a typical E-mail message or conversational USENET posting, the actual damages will be zero. Only the most vindictive (and rich) author would sue when no damages are possible, and the courts don't look kindly on vindictive plaintiffs, unless the defendants are even more vindictive.

The author's right to control what is done with a work, however, has some validity, even if it has no commercial value. If you feel you need to violate a copyright "because you can get away with it because the work has no value" you should ask yourself why you're doing it. In general, respecting the rights of creators to control their creations is a principle many advocate adhering to.

In addition, while quite often people make incorrect claims of "fair use" it is a still valid and important concept necessary to allow the criticism of copyrighted works and their creators through examples. It's also been extended to allow things like home recording of TV shows and moving music from CDs you own to your MP3 player. But please read more about it before you do it.

In Summary

These days, almost all things are copyrighted the moment they are written, and no copyright notice is required.
Copyright is still violated whether you charged money or not, only damages are affected by that.
Postings to the net are not granted to the public domain, and don't grant you any permission to do further copying except perhaps the sort of copying the poster might have expected in the ordinary flow of the net.
Fair use is a complex doctrine meant to allow certain valuable social purposes. Ask yourself why you are republishing what you are posting and why you couldn't have just rewritten it in your own words.
Copyright is not lost because you don't defend it; that's a concept from trademark law. The ownership of names is also from trademark law, so don't say somebody has a name copyrighted.
Fan fiction and other work derived from copyrighted works is a copyright violation.
Copyright law is mostly civil law where the special rights of criminal defendants you hear so much about don't apply. Watch out, however, as new laws are moving copyright violation into the criminal realm.
Don't rationalize that you are helping the copyright holder; often it's not that hard to ask permission.
Posting E-mail is technically a violation, but revealing facts from E-mail you got isn't, and for almost all typical E-mail, nobody could wring any damages from you for posting it. The law doesn't do much to protect works with no commercial value.
DMCA Alert!

Copyright law was recently amended by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act which changed net copyright in many ways. In particular, it put all sorts of legal strength behind copy-protection systems, making programs illegal and reducing the reality of fair use rights.
The DMCA also changed the liability outlook for ISPs in major ways, many of them quite troublesome.

Linking

Might it be a violation just to link to a web page? That's not a myth, it's undecided, but I have written some discussion of linking rights issues.
Permission is granted to freely print, unmodified, up to 200 copies of the most up to date version of this document from http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html, or to copy it in off-the-net electronic form.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:13:42   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
larrywiltse wrote:
In the early part of December, I took some free photos of senior citizens. I gave them my business card and said if they had a problem getting the photos printed to have the store call me. Sam's Club, Rite Aid, Wallgreen had no problem. Wal Mark refused to print the photos unless they had a release form from me for each person that came in. I had earlier signed a release form to have on file. They said it was a Federal Law and the other stores were breaking the law. Does any body really know.
In the early part of December, I took some free ph... (show quote)


Walmart and Sam's Club are required by policy to respect copyright laws and to require a release for any photo that appears to have been professionally shot. Or, the person needs to show that they shot the image. Many employees gloss over this but it is a requirement of Walmart and Sam's. Having said that, rather than bashing them for trying to do the right thing for photographers, we should be bashing Walgreens, Rite-Aid and others that just print and go on with photos. Is there a federal law? yes it is the copyright law. Is it ignored? yes by many shops that don't bother to do their jobs that they are sworn to do when they get their processing equipment.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:21:46   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
larrywiltse wrote:
In the early part of December, I took some free photos of senior citizens. I gave them my business card and said if they had a problem getting the photos printed to have the store call me. Sam's Club, Rite Aid, Wallgreen had no problem. Wal Mark refused to print the photos unless they had a release form from me for each person that came in. I had earlier signed a release form to have on file. They said it was a Federal Law and the other stores were breaking the law. Does any body really know.
In the early part of December, I took some free ph... (show quote)


There is probably a federal law which covers almost everything, if not federal then State takes up the lack of laws that cover every facet of human behavior. Think of this law for a moment. In Marietta Ohio ( I went to school there) power boats shall not be operated on public streets.In some places it is illegal to spit on the street. Therefore if there is any doubt get written permision. It can't hurt.

Reply
 
 
Dec 29, 2014 08:32:47   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
Dave R. wrote:
Yep, they are a real stand up company.
http://www.workplacefairness.org/reports/good-bad-wal-mart/wal-mart.php
5000 suits a year puts them right up at the top of my favorite places. I will say though regardless of my personal feelings about WM, they do provide jobs for those who may otherwise not be able to work. Now that I'm retired perhaps I should apply for a job as a greeter. Could help cure GAS. :lol:


Just remember that anyone can file a suit. Walmart is the world's largest employer so you should expect a lot of lawsuits.. many are over unemployment and many are nuisance suits by the unions and many are dissatisfied employees. Walmart is no better nor any worse then many other employers. You also have to remember that, because of their size, each store, district, region and market is often managed a little differently. Corporate generally is fair and often times it is the district manager, or regional manager that gets them in trouble before they get rid of him or her. Having said that, Walmart is no better or no worse than thousands of other places to work here in the US and probably much better than many mom and pop owned stores because they are more heavily scrutinized.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:34:04   #
DocJohn Loc: Asheboro, NC
 
If you upload photographs to Costco and order prints, you have to certify that these are your photographs and not someone else's. Obviously, that just requires a click of the mouse but it does show you that large chains are concerned with potential Copyright violations and want to transfer responsibility for any violation to the person attempting to print the pictures.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:43:44   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Wallbanger wrote:
How did you deliver the photos to them? Did you just give them the files? If you have Copyright info in your EXIF either from your camera, or your processing software, I could see them possibly doing this. If you added a watermark, that would do it too.

If this was the case, good on Walmart for checking for it. The Federal Law in this case would be Copyright, which yes, is kind of a big deal.

Back when I ran a mini lab at Osco Drug in high school, if someone brought in prints or negatives from a pro photographer we wouldn't make duplicates without a release.
How did you deliver the photos to them? Did you ju... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:46:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
:thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
 
 
Dec 29, 2014 08:46:24   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
DocJohn wrote:
If you upload photographs to Costco and order prints, you have to certify that these are your photographs and not someone else's. Obviously, that just requires a click of the mouse but it does show you that large chains are concerned with potential Copyright violations and want to transfer responsibility for any violation to the person attempting to print the pictures.


That's not showing concern is really putting blinders on so the workers don't have to $$$spend$$$$ any effort at the counter. Also known as kick the can up the road and keep all the customers happy by never asking them anything other than, "that will be $nn.nn, thank you, have a nice day.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:50:03   #
olddog Loc: louisville ky
 
larrywiltse wrote:
In the early part of December, I took some free photos of senior citizens. I gave them my business card and said if they had a problem getting the photos printed to have the store call me. Sam's Club, Rite Aid, Wallgreen had no problem. Wal Mark refused to print the photos unless they had a release form from me for each person that came in. I had earlier signed a release form to have on file. They said it was a Federal Law and the other stores were breaking the law. Does any body really know.
In the early part of December, I took some free ph... (show quote)
A number of years ago, after I retired, I took a part time job with a large retailer in the photo lab. If a digital image on a cd or a print to copy came in, we had to ask for a release even if the image only looked pro. If we printed a photo that was copyrighted, we could lose our job. We even had several funeral homes with permission on file. They use these for book marks. Some people would order one print from the pro and expect to have us save them some money. I was cussed out several times by irate customers. A copyright law was taped to the scanner to help us explain it to the customer.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 08:52:43   #
Dave R. Loc: PNW
 
Wallbanger wrote:
Maybe we can get back to the original question instead of devolving this thread into something that wasn't asked.


Yes SIR Mr. Wallbangggger. Your wish is my command for you are all powerful and wise. No need for anyone to comment since your opinion is the only one that apparently is supposed to count.


:thumbup:

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 09:05:01   #
chip57 Loc: QUEBEC CANADA
 
Costco to

Reply
 
 
Dec 29, 2014 09:12:17   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
olddog wrote:
A number of years ago, after I retired, I took a part time job with a large retailer in the photo lab. If a digital image on a cd or a print to copy came in, we had to ask for a release even if the image only looked pro. If we printed a photo that was copyrighted, we could lose our job. We even had several funeral homes with permission on file. They use these for book marks. Some people would order one print from the pro and expect to have us save them some money. I was cussed out several times by irate customers. A copyright law was taped to the scanner to help us explain it to the customer.
A number of years ago, after I retired, I took a p... (show quote)


These thoughts are good. They protect and maintain value for creative work. I am not a professional photographer and when I hire photos to be taken I pay for all copies or for unlimited use if warraned but I do pay fully understanding this is someones lively hood. Have same issue with my Architecture designs and have a copy right on every one of them.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 09:14:05   #
gonate Loc: sacramento,calif
 
Years ago we sent many roll's of film into Kodak , they had no problem with developing film . and sending them back.
and they sure never questioned the photo's. somebody was screwing with you.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 09:16:36   #
ikaush Loc: Medford, MA
 
CaptainC wrote:
Far casual use - not for use if General Motors wants to use the image(s):

The images identified as 20141228-JoeBlow-###.jpg are released to Joe Blow and the Blow family for personal use.

This means they can print and copy the images, but cannot use those images for commercial purposes.

OR

The images identified as 20141228-JoeBlow-###.jpg are released to Joe Blow and the Blow family for personal use with the following restriction: Images may not be printed larger than 10 inches on the longest side.

Unless you are a professional doing commercial work for corporations, don't overthink this. You are just making it possible for friends and family to print images without a hassle.
Far casual use - not for use if General Motors wa... (show quote)


I wonder if there exists or supposed to be the requirement for verification that the release has actually been made by the photographer. Everybody can just type in the text like this and replace the author's restriction or to fabricate the entire release by using some text editor program.

Reply
Dec 29, 2014 09:18:22   #
twowindsbear
 
larrywiltse wrote:
In the early part of December, I took some free photos of senior citizens. I gave them my business card and said if they had a problem getting the photos printed to have the store call me. Sam's Club, Rite Aid, Wallgreen had no problem. Wal Mark refused to print the photos unless they had a release form from me for each person that came in. I had earlier signed a release form to have on file. They said it was a Federal Law and the other stores were breaking the law. Does any body really know.
In the early part of December, I took some free ph... (show quote)


On the other hand, how would you feel had you sold 1 copy of the photo and then found that it was being copied without your permission and you getting your 'cut?'

Reply
Page <<first <prev 3 of 6 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.