Tom S. Loc: Hillsboro, Ore.

I posted this in set sports photo section, but maybe I'll reach a broader audience here and get some good tips. The mods can let me know if I've done a bad thing by posting twice.

I photograph motorcycle races. In my images I attempt to convey a sense of motion and speed. This is accomplished, in part, through settings that keep the main portions of the subject in sharp focus while allowing the spinning wheels to be blurred.

Outdoors in the daylight this isn't too difficult. I've posted some of the photos below perviously, and they're pretty typical of what I do.

The machines in the first three photos are traveling at speeds between 80-130 mph. General settings follow: Canon 7D, shutter priority, 1/320, various ISO and f-stop settings, WB "cloudy", servo AF, single-point. EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM and EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II.

I run into trouble when the action moves indoors in the winter. There, it's darker and the bikes are going quite a bit slower, say 20-50 mph. I use a Canon 580 EXII flash, set for ETTL, and drop the shutter speed to 1/250. As you can see in the last two photos, the wheels look like they're not moving at all.

I don't know how to overcome this, or if it's even possible at all. Is this simply the nature of flash photography? I have not been able to achieve any good result at all w/o using the flash. I'm not as familiar with the flash settings as I'd like to be because I'm still using a rental and the time that I have it in my hands is limited (at least I own the body and lenses now ). I've been reluctant to slow the shutter more because I still want to keep everything else in focus. Perhaps I'll give that a try at tonight's races.

Any suggestions?

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GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

Since the flash is providing most, if not all of the exposure in your indoor shots and fires at maybe 1/833 sec at full power ...link HERE or shorter -1/128 power = 1/35,000 second, it will stop the motion.
You might experiment with using the flash as a fill instead and dropping the shutter even longer, but expect to trash more images.
Then there is the issue of a difference of the color balance between the flash and the indoor lighting. The venue looks a lot warmer than daylight. Some warming gel on the flash would be in order to make them closer in color temprature.

I think this would be an ideal time to use second-curtain sync, otherwise the wheels will look like they are turning backwards. In this mode, the flash fires at the end of the exposure so the blur will behind instead of ahead of the spokes.

Nice work otherwise!

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Yep - Goofy is 100% correct. Since flash is your main light, that short duration will stop the wheels cold. The suggestion to use flash as fill MIGHT work, but I can almost guarantee you will get some ghosting - a blurred image from ambient and a crisp (more crisper?) image from the flash.

Best solution is a D4s or Canon equivalent at ISO 6400/12500 or even higher. These were at ISO 1250 so you have room to move up.

You have to decide the balance between more noise but blurred wheels or better quality with frozen spokes.

These are nice images.

Skellum0

Not an expert in this type of photography, though I do like yor shots, so please feel free to shoot me down if I'm talking rubbish. Why can't you slow your shutter speed right down, say 1/30-1/60, and pan with the action? I know it sounds much easier in theory than the reality, and that you will have a much higher dump rate. Upsides are you need much less light because of the slow shutter speed and you get all the blur in the right places.

I have been trying the technique in junior basketball. They move much slower than your subjects of course but I am getting some interesting outcomes.

ronz Loc: Florida

I'm quite surprised you are permitted to shoot flash. I don't shoot the events on a flat track and not permitted to use flash so I use panning. Yes it takes some practice but you can great shots and not blind the rider while still getting all the motion blur behind the subject. Start out with something not moving quite so fast for practice and then move up. Good luck

speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho

I think, since you're panning along, it is safe to slow down the shutter some more, also if you shoot in first curtain sync, you should be able to pick up some motion in the spikes.

Pepsiman Loc: New York City

Would a video light do instead of a flash :?:

Reddog Loc: Southern Calif

I am no help but have to comment. The 1st 3 are great shots!!!!!

Tom S. Loc: Hillsboro, Ore.

Thanks. I tried using the rear curtain flash last weekend, but I didn't change anything else and there was really no noticeable difference in the outcome. I posed my question in another thread, and someone else suggested also slowing the shutter speed and panning in addition to the rear curtain. I'm already panning, so I'll try slowing the shutter down the next time out and see what happens. I tried jacking up the ISO and not using the flash at all, but the result was inadequate.

Mrs. S. nixed the idea of getting a D4s. I'm beginning to think there is no perfect solution to photographing fast-moving objects in the dark. :lol:



You'd think... But last season I covered ten AMA Pro Flat Track races, and probably twice that many amateur events, from Washington State to Florida and many points in between. There are usually several photographers at the Pro races and bigger amateur events, and we all use flashes after dark. I covered a World of Outlaws car race in Iowa that ran the same weekend as a bike race, and the photogs there all had enormous flashes with reflectors the size of pie plates. I've never been told not to use the flash, nor do the motorcycle riders complain. I know many of them quite well off the track and have asked them about this. For the most part they are so focused on their task that they don't even notice. I used to be a racer and it didn't bother me.

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BlueSkyHorses Loc: Missouri

I have the same problem at horse shows. Although we cannot use a flash. Low light and moving objects is hard. I would rather not have the blurry legs but the non flash thing creates quite a problem.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Just a few comments! Nice Stuff!

I used to do lots of motorsport and air-show photography back in the days when I shot news for a Montreal daily. It’s been a while and I can’t find any old files to scan and post. Some nice shots here for sure. The ones I like best and in the ones that I used to shoot, I always preferred the images with blurred wheels and the exciting effects of panning with the action and getting those great horizontal lines that connote fast moving action. With in-flight aircraft shots I also love the ones with blurred propeller images- I could almost here the roar of the engines when I look at those pictures- with frozen props I would get that horrible feeling like the aircraft was about to fall out of the sky due to engine failure!

Oh- those pie-plate- like reflectors on those big flash units? They are telephoto reflectors that come with a flash tube socket extender. That configuration of the highly polished reflectors that are shaped like microwave dish antenna and the protruding flash tube is able to throw the light for a goodly long distance. You can shoot from a safe distance, fill your frame nicely and get great flash fill or good a basic main light source which really comes in hand on some shoots. Mine fit my Lumadyne flash heads and I can pump 200 or 400 watt/seconds and end up with around f/11 for fill flash (at 40 or more feet) which is fine for an f/16 kinda day. I think they are still manufactured by Norman.

Nowadays with all the tight security; if I have to cover a VIP event of some kind where top political folk are in attendance- they oftentimes stick me in a “cage” with the press pool, so out comes the long lens at that crazy flash reflector.

Exposaure wise- if I want some blur I figure out what shutter speed I would need to obtain the degree of blur that I want, It depends on the spped of the subject and at what angle it is approaching me- head on- 45 degrees or parallel to the camera. In daylight conditions the flash will still NOT freeze the actions because I want too let in as much ambien light as the speed of the action will tolerate. So in that method the flash is only there to provide fill. With indoor conditions the flash will usually freeze the all the action and movement (because it is the primary light source) so I need to drag the shutter a bit more in order to introduce the blur. Also in some of my higher powered A/C powered flash systems I can light up an entire area or a ballroom but on theses big units the flash duration is only about 1/300 sec so it is easier to get some blur if desired.

Ed

DougR

I agree with Goofy and Captain. The flash is too fast and slower shutter speed will not give you the results you want. I do think a video light and higher ISO would help. Use the flash just for a bit of fill .

DougR

By the way I love the outdoor shots.

Jules Karney Loc: Las Vegas, Nevada

Silly question, but how do I get to the Sports Section?
Thank You

Don Fischer Loc: Antelope, Ore

I like them as they are. Wheels don't look like they are moving? Look again. The tire's aren't gonna look like their moving no matter what you do but look at the spoke's! They are moving. Don't think so? Look ahead at a photo I'd say the bike is standing still, spokes plainly clear. I don't think your gonna get a sense of motion other than the spoke's unless you learn to pan the camera! then the sense of motion will come from the background. With out doing that, the bike is never gonna show a sense of motion, just either a bike that look's like it's not moving or that is out of focus.

Your from Hillsboro, have you ever went to Washogale? Went there one time with a friend and that is quite a place, didn't have a camera with me then.