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Shoot, Shoot, Shoot...,Practice, Practice Practice,...Will It Make You Better??
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Aug 31, 2014 03:52:37   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Bobspez wrote:
True. For many years I was a computer hobbyist, back when storage was a tape cassette recorder, a monitor was a portable TV, and you had to buy an extra 64KB (not MB!) of ram to attach to your Timex Sinclair computer that only came with 2K of RAM. About 15 years later I finally got the opportunity to make a living at it. So instead of spending 1000 hours a year on a hobby, I was spending 2500 hours a year making a living at it. The 10,000 hours of experience I got in the next 4 years would have taken 10 years as a hobby. But as a hobbyist I had no deadlines and no consequences. As a professional I did, and it made me obsessed with getting ahead of the learning curve to avoid negative consequences.
Now as a photographer hobbyist I may get a good shot every few weeks and throw away hundreds. But if I was a paid photographer, making a living at it, I'd have to make good shots every day.
True. For many years I was a computer hobbyist, ba... (show quote)


Are you sure about the ram? The sinclair ZX81 had 1K built in and a 16k ram pack as an add on. The Spectrum (1983) was 16k or 48k when it came out with 16k Rom and was built with faulty Ram chips with either the top half or bottom half of the IC enabled. Later models the 128k versions could page in and out 16k banks with the final +3 able to page out the 16k rom. Thou there was the ZX80 from 1980 but I never saw one of them.

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Aug 31, 2014 05:34:28   #
Phg Loc: Canada
 
Mac wrote:
It's helped me.
In handling my camera to be able to make adjustments and changing settings without stopping and thinking what to do.
In better understanding what I want to accomplish and how to get there.
I'm still working on framing and composition, but practice is helping with that.

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Aug 31, 2014 05:38:01   #
Phg Loc: Canada
 
I would agree with Mac and although I'm new to things it does make a big difference IMO! Mind you I also think reading a lot, looking at many many photographs is also indispensable in improving the craft.

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Aug 31, 2014 06:14:05   #
djenrette Loc: Philadelphia
 
If practicing something 10,000 times guaranteed success, then everyone over the age of 28 years should be completely successful (having lived more than 10,000 days). I like what Piet Hein said (from memory here so don't quote me):

The road to success is plain
and simple to express:
just err, and err, and err again.
but less and less and less.

In other words, if you do not learn from each and every effort, you are wasting your time.

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Aug 31, 2014 06:18:07   #
morris cowley Loc: australia
 
It is sound advice as how else can you improve your skills if you do not continue to practise. But, taking photos without some meaning and learning from experience is more important than wasted clicks. To improve photography skills treat your camera as if shooting with film.

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Aug 31, 2014 06:34:14   #
sodapop Loc: Bel Air, MD
 
Also play the guitar. To be good you must learn learn learn (from sombody or some thing) and practice practice practice. Same with photography

rpavich wrote:
I think that people mistake just pulling the trigger multiple times as "practice" when really, practice is:

1.) Focused
2.) Directed
3.) Goal Oriented


Etc.

I compare it to playing guitar (which I've done for many years) When folks "practice" they do things that they can already do...they do it mindlessly and repetitively.

But when people who are "pros" practice...they do things that they DON'T do well..and AREN'T FUN and they stretch themselves beyond their comfort zone.

So...yes..shoot shoot practice practice...but if that means taking the 1000th image of your hibiscus in your front yard...then no.
I think that people mistake just pulling the trigg... (show quote)

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Aug 31, 2014 06:34:47   #
Preachdude Loc: Geneva, OH
 
SharpShooter wrote:
We have all heard the famous phrase uttered by none other than the incomparable HCB,"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".
Almost daily I hear the advice, shoot, shoot, shoot(sss), and practice, practice, practice(ppp), then do it some more.
Are those of you dishing out this advice just parroting something you have heard, or has it actually helped you in some quantifiable way along you Photographic Journey/Career?


In the days of film I was part of a color slide group in Glendora, California, that, in turn, was part of "S4C" -- the Southern California Council of Camera Clubs. In my local group there was a mixture of amateurs, enthusiasts, and professionals, and S4C promoted three skills-levels competitions each month. Rather than talk in terms of SSSPPP, everyone assumed that they would discard at least two out of three images. Forcing ourselves into that discipline meant keeping personal pride in perspective and paying attention to what works and what doesn't. To this day, I hate discarding images, but doing so helps me hone my skills and teaches me the difference between a "snapshot" and a "picture."

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Aug 31, 2014 06:46:36   #
turp77 Loc: Connecticut, Plainfield
 
amehta wrote:
I think learning modes apply to everything, including photography, so I will respond in the general context. Only doing something over and over will not make someone better at it. We need to also learn from those who have done it before and involve feedback in what we are doing, both from ourselves and from others.


I agree with you AMETHA, need the learn learn learn LLL. Not having the best gear doesn't hold you back because beginners in school use the most basic camera to learn, exposure and composition and They also get a lot of feed back. Every good photographer will learn from their every shot and from others. From others I mean by Critiquing others "how would I have taken this photo what would it make better" see LLL. If you don't LLL from your own and others you will never move forward. Some great photographs have been taken with the most basic of cameras. A Pro doesn't get a lot of money for the photos he takes it's for what he knows! One last thing about photographers which is so true " How many photographers does it take to take one picture... 101. One to take the picture and 100 to tell you how you should have taken it"

Sorry! Wow when I started my reply and answered a phone call we were still on the first page now up to page 6!

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Aug 31, 2014 07:01:19   #
Ariel
 
99&99/100 % of all photography is, to quote a famousSpanish
painter the art form of the second rate & always will be. All
the practice in the world will not help . It will always be just
a snapshot of a given moment however well it is" framed".
So just snap away and enjoy without worrying in making
it "better ", in time you will learn to "frame" a work so it
will be presentable to others with the least amount of explanation
as to what and where .

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Aug 31, 2014 07:05:38   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
SharpShooter wrote:
We have all heard the famous phrase uttered by none other than the incomparable HCB,"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".
Almost daily I hear the advice, shoot, shoot, shoot(sss), and practice, practice, practice(ppp), then do it some more.
What say YOU??!! ;-)
SS

Wow! Six pages already.

Practice is no good if you don't have instruction - proper instruction.

There's a saying that if you practice something for 10,000 hours, you will master it. Several online articles claim that is not true, based on research.

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Aug 31, 2014 07:14:41   #
guitarbts Loc: Charlotte, NC
 
I am a guitar player also. One of the lines I remember an instructor saying in college was "We can teach you technique and fundamentals but we can not teach you talent. That comes from you."
The other line I recall is Beauty is in the ears of the beholder or in this case, eyes.

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Aug 31, 2014 07:30:45   #
viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK
 
My golf pro once said to me, you are just practicing your faults.

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Aug 31, 2014 07:41:31   #
Grnway Loc: Manchester, NH
 
From what I can garner, from the comments here, PPP definitely helps you handle your incredibly complex camera more intuitively. I know that works for me.
However, to really get better at composition, develop an artistic eye, and apply all of the tools available, requires gaining more knowledge about the craft and applying it to try to improve.
One way to that is through books, AV, correspondence courses, or a degree program in photography, it's important to try to learn from others.
The other way to do it is to constantly shoot "in the dark" so to speak, find your best shots, and figure out why they're so good. Seems like reinventing the wheel when there are so many excellent learning media out there that may save you years of experimentation.

So, in summary, my humble opinion is to PPP to learn how to intuitively handle your gear and LLL (learn learn learn) by both shooting a lot and learning from others.

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Aug 31, 2014 07:42:36   #
BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD
 
"Practice makes perfect" is meaningful ONLY if you are practicing a known skill thus having a standard you are seeking to meet. One can follow every rule perfectly and still not create an interesting or eye pleasing image.

Brings to mind what I saw - our community has open air music shows through out the summer free of charge. Various artists are invited (and paid) presenting virtually all types of music. Members of the audience can get up and dance in the grassy area in front of the bandstand, and many do. This past summer there was one gentleman who danced with many ladies at every show - he had all of the moves for various types of music - but he had NO rhythm whatsoever - his every move just looked clunky! Point being "Practice (does not necessarily) make perfect"

I think that instead of the many classes and books on how to: compose, use light, etc. there should be more dealing with how to use the tool to convert what you are seeing into what might be considered a "good image" AND how to critique your own images so as to know what to work on next time. If such is there, I haven't found it.

I also like to scroll saw - when learning I had objective standards to meet, cut a straight line for instance, and could recognize my deficiencies thus knowing what and how to improve.

To paraphrase several other posts, a skill can be learned but can you learn talent? You can discover, develop and improve what you have but, how do you discover or, get what you may not have?

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Aug 31, 2014 08:12:36   #
Marilyng Loc: Lorain,Oh.
 
SharpShooter wrote:
We have all heard the famous phrase uttered by none other than the incomparable HCB,"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst".
Almost daily I hear the advice, shoot, shoot, shoot(sss), and practice, practice, practice(ppp), then do it some more.
Are those of you dishing out this advice just parroting something you have heard, or has it actually helped you in some quantifiable way along you Photographic Journey/Career?
I assume you also know that the famous HCB was also one of the most highly trained artist/photographers on the planet, even to this day. Indeed attending schools that were actually pioneering photographic concepts and styles, not to mention using the best gear available in his day.
Can we actually get better by just sss/ppp without actually changing something in order to improve, and can we do that on our own without outside trained input?
Those of you that have attended real photography schools and hold something akin to a BFA or similar, could you have come to that point on your own, by just sss/ppp?

So I am inviting a discussion about whether sss, ppp actually does any good?
Those of you that are quite fond of saying it, I hope you come forward and embellish in what way you feel it's worth repeating, or are we just misleading new photographers to learn bad habits and a photographic life of just stumbling around in the dark?
Does sss, ppp teach one composition, how to use your camera or how to be an artist and produce award winning shots?
Feel free to post pics that you feel explain your position, or maybe before and after shots(after the first 10,000).
Or does something else entirely different work for you or others?
I'd like to hear from pros as well as those just starting out, that we may be able to come to a consensus to better advice those looking for that first camera or those that just got one, not to mention those that have been at it for years. Maybe we can all learn from this.
What say YOU??!! ;-)
SS
We have all heard the famous phrase uttered by non... (show quote)

Yes, I do believe this but you should learn the basics of camera taking first either by taking some classes or having a friend or mentor start you out along the right path.Then you shoot shoot practice practice.When I first started taking photos they were not so good but I feel I have improved through the years & of course I am still learning!

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