Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Dick Cheney's amazing chutzpah on Iraq
Page 1 of 9 next> last>>
Jun 19, 2014 15:57:13   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Editor's note: Paul Waldman is a contributing editor at The American Prospect and the author of "Being Right Is Not Enough: What Progressives Must Learn From Conservative Success." Follow him on his blog and on Twitter. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author.


(CNN) -- You have to hand it to Dick Cheney. How many people, knowing what has happened in Iraq over the last 12 years, would dare to write an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal containing this line: "Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many" -- and not be talking about George W. Bush? The man has chutzpah.

Of all the former Bush administration officials who have emerged in the last few days to blame the deteriorating situation in Iraq on Barack Obama, one might think Cheney would be among the last.

It's one thing to turn on your TV and hear that Obama is a dangerous weakling from people like Paul Wolfowitz and William Kristol, the ones who told us that war with Iraq would be cheap and easy, then bring a wave of peace and democracy across the Middle East.

But Cheney?

Cheney was the war's chief propagandist, who told the American public more spectacular falsehoods than anyone, including Bush himself. Cheney was the one who told us in 2002 that "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
He's the one who tried to convince us that Saddam Hussein might have helped engineer the September 11 attacks, and who said in 2005 that the insurgency in Iraq was "in its last throes." (The war went on for 6½ more years.)

Cheney had a central role in bringing on a war in which 4,500 Americans gave their lives, tens of thousands more were gravely injured, we spent a couple of trillion dollars, and somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 Iraqis died.
Cheney's opinion appears to be that all that death and expense never really happened (he doesn't mention them), and that everything bad in Iraq can only be Obama's fault -- because the Bush administration did such a bang-up job there. "Mr. Obama had only to negotiate an agreement to leave behind some residual American forces, training and intelligence capabilities to help secure the peace," he writes. "Instead, he abandoned Iraq and we are watching American defeat snatched from the jaws of victory."

Would "some residual American forces" have been able to keep a lid on the unending Iraqi civil war that Bush and Cheney so effectively unleashed? We'll never really know, but here's what we do know: The agreement mandating that all American troops leave Iraq by the end of 2011 was signed by one George W. Bush, before Obama took office.

As negotiations over our departure proceeded in Obama's first term, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki -- eager to have the Americans gone so he could consolidate what would turn out to be a corrupt sectarian rule -- refused to grant American troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts. Without that immunity, there was simply no way American forces could remain there. We've heard many people say Obama "should have pushed harder," but nobody says exactly what that's supposed to mean, or why al-Maliki would have given in, especially considering how he's acted since.

And what does Cheney think we should do now? He doesn't seem to have any idea. The op-ed contains precisely zero recommendations about Iraq. Defeating al Qaeda, it says, "will require a strategy -- not a fantasy." But what is that strategy? "Sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts"? Oh, of course -- if only we had known!

At least he's not alone in his arrogance and befuddlement. None of Obama's other critics seem to have much of an idea what we should do in Iraq, or Syria, or anywhere else. They're happy to say that whatever Obama is doing isn't enough, and it isn't strong. But if you ask them to be specific about what different decisions they would make, you'll be met with hemming and hawing.
That's because there are only bad options for America in Iraq, as is often the case in the Middle East. If you delude yourself into thinking that wars are simple and easy, and all that matters is whether you're "strong," then sometimes things become quite clear. We'll just invade, we'll be "greeted as liberators" (that was Cheney, too), and everyone will live happily ever after.

And when what actually results is not that glorious and easy victory, but a tidal wave of violence and despair, then all you need to do is wait until after you leave office, when you can blame it all on someone else.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 16:00:28   #
preachy Loc: Dover Plains, NY
 
There are good and bad people on the left and on the right, but this man's doings rival some of the most evil people in history. I'll spare Godwin this time around.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 16:39:41   #
brucew29 Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
 
Twardlow wrote:
Editor's note: Paul Waldman is a contributing editor at The American Prospect and the author of "Being Right Is Not Enough: What Progressives Must Learn From Conservative Success." Follow him on his blog and on Twitter. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author.


(CNN) -- You have to hand it to Dick Cheney. How many people, knowing what has happened in Iraq over the last 12 years, would dare to write an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal containing this line: "Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many" -- and not be talking about George W. Bush? The man has chutzpah.

Of all the former Bush administration officials who have emerged in the last few days to blame the deteriorating situation in Iraq on Barack Obama, one might think Cheney would be among the last.

It's one thing to turn on your TV and hear that Obama is a dangerous weakling from people like Paul Wolfowitz and William Kristol, the ones who told us that war with Iraq would be cheap and easy, then bring a wave of peace and democracy across the Middle East.

But Cheney?

Cheney was the war's chief propagandist, who told the American public more spectacular falsehoods than anyone, including Bush himself. Cheney was the one who told us in 2002 that "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
He's the one who tried to convince us that Saddam Hussein might have helped engineer the September 11 attacks, and who said in 2005 that the insurgency in Iraq was "in its last throes." (The war went on for 6½ more years.)

Cheney had a central role in bringing on a war in which 4,500 Americans gave their lives, tens of thousands more were gravely injured, we spent a couple of trillion dollars, and somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 Iraqis died.
Cheney's opinion appears to be that all that death and expense never really happened (he doesn't mention them), and that everything bad in Iraq can only be Obama's fault -- because the Bush administration did such a bang-up job there. "Mr. Obama had only to negotiate an agreement to leave behind some residual American forces, training and intelligence capabilities to help secure the peace," he writes. "Instead, he abandoned Iraq and we are watching American defeat snatched from the jaws of victory."

Would "some residual American forces" have been able to keep a lid on the unending Iraqi civil war that Bush and Cheney so effectively unleashed? We'll never really know, but here's what we do know: The agreement mandating that all American troops leave Iraq by the end of 2011 was signed by one George W. Bush, before Obama took office.

As negotiations over our departure proceeded in Obama's first term, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki -- eager to have the Americans gone so he could consolidate what would turn out to be a corrupt sectarian rule -- refused to grant American troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts. Without that immunity, there was simply no way American forces could remain there. We've heard many people say Obama "should have pushed harder," but nobody says exactly what that's supposed to mean, or why al-Maliki would have given in, especially considering how he's acted since.

And what does Cheney think we should do now? He doesn't seem to have any idea. The op-ed contains precisely zero recommendations about Iraq. Defeating al Qaeda, it says, "will require a strategy -- not a fantasy." But what is that strategy? "Sustained difficult military, intelligence and diplomatic efforts"? Oh, of course -- if only we had known!

At least he's not alone in his arrogance and befuddlement. None of Obama's other critics seem to have much of an idea what we should do in Iraq, or Syria, or anywhere else. They're happy to say that whatever Obama is doing isn't enough, and it isn't strong. But if you ask them to be specific about what different decisions they would make, you'll be met with hemming and hawing.
That's because there are only bad options for America in Iraq, as is often the case in the Middle East. If you delude yourself into thinking that wars are simple and easy, and all that matters is whether you're "strong," then sometimes things become quite clear. We'll just invade, we'll be "greeted as liberators" (that was Cheney, too), and everyone will live happily ever after.

And when what actually results is not that glorious and easy victory, but a tidal wave of violence and despair, then all you need to do is wait until after you leave office, when you can blame it all on someone else.
Editor's note: Paul Waldman is a contributing edit... (show quote)


I try not to get involved in political dialog... most of the time it is a lose-lose endeavor... but sometimes the truth stands out like sun-lit diamonds over a black tapestry of woven lies...

Reply
 
 
Jun 19, 2014 16:41:58   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
brucew29 wrote:
I try not to get involved in political dialog... most of the time it is a lose-lose endeavor... but sometimes the truth stands out like sun-lit diamonds over a black tapestry of woven lies...


May I presume that this post (which I didn't write) stands out like sun-lit diamonds over a black tapestry of woven lies?

BTW, pretty good poetry on your part.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 17:01:39   #
brucew29 Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
 
In a few words, I have never trusted Dick Cheney from the beginning... nor at the end... and I don't care for anyone that I don't trust...

Twardlow wrote:
May I presume that this post (which I didn't write) stands out like sun-lit diamonds over a black tapestry of woven lies?

BTW, pretty good poetry on your part.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 17:17:39   #
EngineerAl
 
Liars all of you above. Every one.

Here is one Democrat after another, claiming it is absolute FACT that Iraq has WMDs.

Bill Clinton states unequivocally that Hussein must go.

America supported the two wars at the 76% level UNTIL... Democrats decided to switch sides, and badmouth America to the utter delight of terrorists everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSwSDvgw5Uc

First, Democrats spun the Viernam War, mismanaged from the start by LBJ. Now Democrats spin the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.
America's allies around the world no longer trust us. They have seen the incompetence, the idiocy, the buffoonery of Barack Vacation Man Obama, and recoil in fear and wonderment.

This is the very clown who snooped on German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and was she furious. Democrats screamed bloody murder when President Bush was trying to snoop on terrorists and their many fund-raisers and undercover goons throughout the world.

Hypocrisy, lies, and hate define the Democrat Party, though not necessarily in that order.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 17:30:20   #
RichieC Loc: Adirondacks
 
brucew29 wrote:
In a few words, I have never trusted Dick Cheney from the beginning... nor at the end... and I don't care for anyone that I don't trust...


Funny, I have exactly the same opinion of Obama, but I have much more proof to base my opinion on. Apparently so do the majority of people in the country as of the latest polls. You hold such a high regard of Bush and Cheney, and yet your savior has eclipsed their lowest score... with no end in sight. How bad does one have to be to accomplish this using your very own yardstick?

Wish I was surprised, but it is all I ever expected of the empty shirt from the very beginning. The rest of the world is just catching up.

Voting for someone based on color alone is racist and radically left, and has proved a failed experiment. Better to vote for the content of their soul with no regard to their color, race or gender. I can't wait for the next president who can lead- I won't care if it's a he or she or is colored green- but the radical left will.

Reply
 
 
Jun 19, 2014 17:33:57   #
gym Loc: Athens, Georgia
 
Cheney's comments are right on the money.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 18:49:25   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
"You hold such a high regard of Bush and Cheney, and yet your savior has eclipsed their lowest score... with no end in sight. How bad does one have to be to accomplish this using your very own yardstick? "


August 30, 2011

When Vice President Dick Cheney left office, his approval rating stood at a staggeringly low 13 percent. Few political figures in history have been so reviled. As his memoir, In My Time, hits bookstores today, and he does a series of friendly interviews in the press, some Americans with short memories might wonder, "Why is it that so few were willing to endorse his performance in office?"

This is a reminder.


President Bush bears ultimate responsibility for the War in Iraq, as do the members of Congress who voted for it. But Dick Cheney's role in the run-up to war was uniquely irresponsible and mendacious. And after the invasion he contributed to the early dysfunction on the ground. Even Iraq War supporters should rue his involvement.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 18:57:28   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
"He was a bad man, that mean old Dick Cheney"

Woody Guthrie.. "Stackolee"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB8DJYxo6mU

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 19:03:53   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
Even Megyn Kelly on FOX called out Cheney. He is an evil, bitter man who has sold his black soul. He's the only man who has a FB death watch page. Whoever guesses the time closest to Cheney's death and doesn't go over wins like $15 bucks or something. lol

Reply
 
 
Jun 19, 2014 19:21:29   #
EngineerAl
 
dljen wrote:
Even Megyn Kelly on FOX called out Cheney. He is an evil, bitter man who has sold his black soul. He's the only man who has a FB death watch page. Whoever guesses the time closest to Cheney's death and doesn't go over wins like $15 bucks or something. lol


"LOL" on Dick Cheney's demise. And aren't YOU the liberal hypocrite who wailed and whined when someone who correctly sized you up "wishes you would have a stroke."

HE is being "hateful and mean." But when you leftists do the same thing to conservatives, well, it's just LOL giggle time.

Is it POSSIBLE for you to contribute facts and reason and analysis? For the first time? Is that even POSSIBLE?

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 19:35:08   #
brucew29 Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
 
Well this is a first... I am a liar because I don't like or trust Dick Cheney? I still don't like or trust Dick Cheney and that is an absolute truth! I didn't say that I was for a Republican or a Democrat... but if you are a Republican I might need to reappraise my political situation and make some changes! Like I said... delving into politics is a "Lose-Lose" endeavor... enough said! I just thought that I would test the waters... still murky... I should have known better... I am out of here before I get caught-up in a senseless argument... Can't we all just get along... please?

EngineerAl wrote:
Liars all of you above. Every one.

Here is one Democrat after another, claiming it is absolute FACT that Iraq has WMDs.

Bill Clinton states unequivocally that Hussein must go.

America supported the two wars at the 76% level UNTIL... Democrats decided to switch sides, and badmouth America to the utter delight of terrorists everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSwSDvgw5Uc

First, Democrats spun the Viernam War, mismanaged from the start by LBJ. Now Democrats spin the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.
America's allies around the world no longer trust us. They have seen the incompetence, the idiocy, the buffoonery of Barack Vacation Man Obama, and recoil in fear and wonderment.

This is the very clown who snooped on German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and was she furious. Democrats screamed bloody murder when President Bush was trying to snoop on terrorists and their many fund-raisers and undercover goons throughout the world.

Hypocrisy, lies, and hate define the Democrat Party, though not necessarily in that order.
Liars all of you above. Every one. br br Here is... (show quote)

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 19:44:30   #
EngineerAl
 
brucew29 wrote:
Well this is a first... I am a liar because I don't like or trust Dick Cheney? I still don't like or trust Dick Cheney and that is an absolute truth! I didn't say that I was for a Republican or a Democrat... but if you are a Republican I might need to reappraise my political situation and make some changes! Like I said... delving into politics is a "Lose-Lose" endeavor... enough said! I just thought that I would test the waters... still murky... I should have known better... I am out of here before I get caught-up in a senseless argument... Can't we all just get along... please?
Well this is a first... I am a liar because I don'... (show quote)


Cheney is a man of integrity, of generosity, of maturity. Dick Cheney didn't lie. He relied on the same information as Bill Clinton did, when Clinton endorsed going to war with Hussein.

Your mistrust is based on nothing but lies by fellow Democrats.
Cheney has given $20,000,000 or more to charity. Bill Clinton, by contrast, gave away some of his underwear, valuing it at $3.00 a pair. What did Al Gore give? Practically nothing. Same thing with the corrupt, incompetent, narcissist Obama who people like you worship and adore.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 20:07:47   #
dljen Loc: Central PA
 
EngineerAl wrote:
Cheney is a man of integrity, of generosity, of maturity. Dick Cheney didn't lie. He relied on the same information as Bill Clinton did, when Clinton endorsed going to war with Hussein.

Your mistrust is based on nothing but lies by fellow Democrats.
Cheney has given $20,000,000 or more to charity. Bill Clinton, by contrast, gave away some of his underwear, valuing it at $3.00 a pair. What did Al Gore give? Practically nothing. Same thing with the corrupt, incompetent, narcissist Obama who people like you worship and adore.
Cheney is a man of integrity, of generosity, of ma... (show quote)


You.just.don't.get.it.

Reply
Page 1 of 9 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.