I was raised very conservative, and exsposed conservative ideals, and the Party was never wrong. Then college opened life's door, and I began to perceive the workd differently, swung over to being very liberal. Now after years of life's lessons and diverse experiences I'm an Independent. Both liberal and conservative philosophies have some good beneficial ideals, but both are mostly poor non productive platforms with interests too narrow to benefit society as a whole. For me it's become an analysis of each individual argument as both parties spew manure pretty thick. I take the good from each and trash the rest. Should one believe either party has an elevated value over the other and not capable of wading through mire, then perhaps they're better off in whichever camp of their choosing remaining blind to their own failures while pointing accusing fingers at others. It's a fundamental aspect of American society...have at it. :-)

Being a determined non-liberal/progressive, I cringe sometimes when some UHH people whose core values run pretty much with mine resort to ad hominem attacks. That is essentially lowering ourselves to playing on the field of THEIR choice.

This article has some interesting points:

http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2014/06/02/dont-argue-with-liberals--it-only-encourages-them-n1845401/page/full





Here's the wrap: " If you're trying to win an Oxford Union debate with a liberal, you’ve missed the point. This isn't about the Marquess of Queensberry’s fussy little rules. This isn't about some sort of extended-pinky exchange of ideas over a fine glass of port. This is about fighting for our way of life and our fundamental rights against the intellectual heirs of Stalin, Mao and Hitler.

Attack. This is about winning. First prize is freedom. Second prize is tyranny. "

The problem most of us have... and it showed up just yesterday in a "discussion" over the problems with the VA (government run socialized medicine)... is that when you state "facts", in a rational, logical, calm, provable way... liberals can only argue back with things like, "who told you that crap", or "where did you hear that, but what about", or "you're full of crap"... they instantaneously resort to name calling, evasion, or instead of answering your comment, they go off on a totally new tangent and try to attack something else. When discussing the VA situation and vets being "left to die" some moronic liberal jumped in and said his mother got the best medical treatment right up until her death. He didn't even consider that anything less, even if the government itself claimed it was true, could really be true... it must be a conservative witch hunt. One even jumped in and said,"What about Sara Palin and all her Lies." Liberals don't deal with reality, they deal with ... hell, I don't even know what they deal with... Pelosi said she wanted to wait until all the facts were in before she made any further comment... meaning, stall, evade, hide until it goes away... while she's really thinking this is another conservative attempt to ruin this country... while she does her best to subvert it... if you look at most of her statements, replies, or rebutales to any topic, and considering her education and relative intelligence, how stupid she really is... how do you expect to have a discussion with your average liberal that believes everything they hear from the left and nothing they hear from the right or even from independent sources withe written proof?

I was raised very conservative, and exsposed conservative ideals, and the Party was never wrong. Then college opened life's door, and I began to perceive the workd differently, swung over to being very liberal. Now after years of life's lessons and diverse experiences I'm an Independent. Both liberal and conservative philosophies have some good beneficial ideals, but both are mostly poor non productive platforms with interests too narrow to benefit society as a whole. For me it's become an analysis of each individual argument as both parties spew manure pretty thick. I take the good from each and trash the rest. Should one believe either party has an elevated value over the other and not capable of wading through mire, then perhaps they're better off in whichever camp of their choosing remaining blind to their own failures while pointing accusing fingers at others. It's a fundamental aspect of American society...have at it. :-)