Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Check out The Pampered Pets Corner section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
Film SLR versus DSLR
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
Feb 16, 2014 07:09:33   #
PhotoArtsLA Loc: Boynton Beach
 
bull drink water wrote:
when I used film,i shot with 200 asa hi-speed ectachrome and got slides that appeared tack sharp of a living room 48x48 size screen at 10-15 feet. how many mp's and what kind of lens would I need to get a print from a digital camera that size?


At 15 feet? A 12-14 MP camera will suffice, with a dose of PhotoZoom Pro software. I have printed to 72x48 from Nikon D7000 frames and at that size you could be ONE FOOT from the print and it was gloriously tack sharp. What shows in extreme enlargement is the quality of the taking lens. EVERYTHING gets magnified. The image I speak of was on very public display at the NAB trade show. It included a stereo digital film camera being held by a wild bright red haired, blue (painted) skinned model. I shot it for Meduza Systems.

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 09:55:30   #
DanRobinson Loc: Charlotte, NC
 
SharpShooter wrote:
. . . For example, I shot Jazz dance, where the light changes every 15 seconds, . . . So on AV, the camera will shoot wide-open when it's dark, as well as at 6400 or so, but with noise. But when there is a lot of light, the camera will always pick the LOWEST ISO and the f-stop to go with it. So that shot is at ISO 200 and VERY clean . . .


Sharpshooter describes another measure of the photographer in control. By knowing what the camera does in its automatic modes, the photographer is in control as much as he would be had he dialed in A,S,F and ISO manually.

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 10:30:13   #
Dick Z. Loc: Downers Grove IL
 
OddJobber wrote:
When digital cameras came on scene, SLR was pretty much the preferred standard, although some never did give up their rangefinders. Mirrorless technology just took a long time to catch up. Despite the DSLR bodies being larger, heavier, more expensive, and subject to mirror slap vibration, some of us (me) prefer the confidence I have from actually seeing through the lens, and will never give up the mirrored cameras.

And it's a known fact that digital viewfinders cause hair loss, insomnia, excessive ear wax and infertility. :-D
When digital cameras came on scene, SLR was pretty... (show quote)

Only when you get very old!! :) :)

Reply
Check out Smartphone Photography section of our forum.
Feb 16, 2014 12:19:30   #
James R. Kyle Loc: Saint Louis, Missouri (A Suburb of Ferguson)
 
Armadillo wrote:
Boentgru,

This was written in a hurry, so feel free to reply or PM for more details.

The mirror box (the “R” in SLR) stands for Reflex, and stands in the pathway between the optical lens and the optical viewfinder. It reflexes the incoming light from the big lens up to the viewfinder through a prism to provide two important functions;
1. To project an image the eye can detect and perceive as an image for composition and focusing.
2. To flip the image 180 degrees so it looks upright and as the naked eye would perceive the scene.
In most older 35 mm cameras a film frame could be exposed many times (multiple exposures, or double exposures), simply be re-cocking the shutter release mechanism without advancing the film. The mirror has little to do with this function, except provide a visual presentation of the scene before exposure.

If you were to open the back of your 35 mm camera, with no film, and advance the shutter release one-step, you could see the shutter curtain advance one-step. The curtain is usually a black fabric material with a very precise gap cut into the curtain. There may be up to 3 gaps in DSLR bodies. The first gap is called First Curtain, the second gap is Second Curtain, and the third is called “B”. B = Bulb, where you control how long the shutter is opened for long exposures.

In 35 mm cameras, with a mirror, when the mirror was down, light would be reflected into the prism and to the optical eyepiece. Because of the nature of a prism, light could be directed into a photo sensor to measure light and calculate exposure. In modern DSLR cameras, the same process occurs, and in some, the mirror is translucent to allow light to pass through the mirror and onto the photo sensor for auto-focus and exposure calculations.
Recently, manufactures have begun to eliminate the optical viewfinder, prism, and mirror; this relies on the LCD panel on the back of the camera to compose, focus, and capture the scene. This is fine for people who want to take “snap shots”, and use only point an shoot cameras, but for serious photographers it may well fall flat on its nose.
Imagine, holding a DSLR camera up close to your face to view the LCD panel, with a 300 mm telephoto lens attached and holding the camera still enough to compose the photo before pressing the shutter button. The image in the LCD will jump with the slightest movement. For those who have “Live View” as a function, select it with any lens attached, then magnify the LCD image 10x.

DIN/ASA/ISO were essentially the same with different value systems. DIN was a European exposure sensitivity value, expressed with two numeric values. The DIN system was inspired by Scheiner's system, but the sensitivities were represented as the base 10 logarithm of the sensitivity multiplied by 10, similar to decibels. Thus an increase of 20° (and not 19°) represented a hundredfold increase in sensitivity, and a difference of 3° was much closer to the base 10 logarithm of 2 (0.30103…).
log(2) = 0.30103 = 3/10
10


&#8195;
ASA
Based on earlier research work by Loyd Ancile Jones (1884–1954) of Kodak and inspired by the systems of Weston film speed ratings[24] and General Electric film values,[26] the American Standards Association (now named ANSI) defined a new method to determine and specify film speeds of black-and-white negative films in 1943. ASA Z38.2.1-1943 was revised in 1946 and 1947 before the standard grew into ASA PH2.5-1954. Originally, ASA values were frequently referred to as American standard speed numbers or ASA exposure-index numbers.

Current system: ISO
The ASA and DIN film speed standards have been combined into the ISO standards since 1974.
The current International Standard for measuring the speed of color negative film is ISO 5800:2001[17] (first published in 1979, revised in November 1987) from the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). Related standards ISO 6:1993[15] (first published in 1974) and ISO 2240:2003[16] (first published in July 1982, revised in September 1994, and corrected in October 2003) define scales for speeds of black-and-white negative film and color reversal film, respectively.

The sensitivity of film is one of the three parts of the equal lateral triangle of exposure, this consists of ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Duration. The degree of light sensitivity for a photosensitive device controls the degree of exposure, and the noise factor (grain) depending on the temperature of the device. Film, or DSLR sensitivity has nothing to do with color quality, this is dependent on the manufacturer of the light sensitivity device, hens the difference between Chroma and Monochrome.
The only optimum setting is in the eye of the beholder, and what he/she is trying to capture; art, or journalism.

Michael G
Boentgru, br br This was written in a hurry, so f... (show quote)

======================

Michael G....

Perhaps one of the Best and well displayed answers I have ever read on this "HOG"... Truly worthy of a Photographer who wants to help others along the way....

BARVO, Sir. :-)

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 14:15:28   #
Armadillo Loc: Ventura, CA
 
James R wrote:
======================

Michael G....

Perhaps one of the Best and well displayed answers I have ever read on this "HOG"... Truly worthy of a Photographer who wants to help others along the way....

BARVO, Sir. :-)


Thank you, James.

I hope the Math didn't get too complex, sometimes there is no other way to explain physical facts.

Have a great day,

Michael G

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 16:36:38   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
bull drink water wrote:
when I used film,i shot with 200 asa hi-speed ectachrome and got slides that appeared tack sharp of a living room 48x48 size screen at 10-15 feet. how many mp's and what kind of lens would I need to get a print from a digital camera that size?


this is where quality diverges. there is simply nothing which can compare with film. a 50x75 inch print, with a 16.6 mega pixel camera will bgive you an image comprised of 66 dots per inch. a 35mm transparency will provide 94 dots per inch.

so sad that technology usually does not improve, but merely changes...

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 17:41:53   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
Boentgru wrote:
My experience with photography goes back 50 years, using film of course, and almost exclusively with 35 mm SLRs, mostly Pentax. So, I try to understand the new technologies using what I understand of the old. Two fundamentals elude me, however.
I don’t understand still using the mirror box associated with SLRs. Film can be exposed only once. So a mirror is useful in formatting, focusing and metering the actual scene and then redirecting the light to the film for the exposure. But with digital sensors the metering and formatting functions can be done simultaneously with the capture. So what advantage is there to having the complexity, size and cost of a mirror box when a mirrorless layout avoids all that?
Secondly, a fundamental parameter of exposure was the film and its speed rating (DIN/ASA/ISO) which could be selected based on speed requirements, grain structure (fineness) and color qualities. But in today’s digital cameras the sensor is fixed and not selectable. So why do we still input a speed rating? Surely there must be one rating which is optimum for the sensor fitted.
I invite responses which would educate me in these areas and relate them to my understanding of film photography.
My experience with photography goes back 50 years,... (show quote)




With respect, perhaps your question can be best answered by a manufacturer. It would be an interesting project to get input from the major manufacturers on your questions.

Reply
 
 
Feb 16, 2014 17:53:50   #
buffmaloney Loc: Indiana
 
Armadillo wrote:
SS,

Have you totally given up creativity? :roll:

Michael G


Of course he has. He shoots with Canon.

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 18:14:04   #
Armadillo Loc: Ventura, CA
 
buffmaloney wrote:
Of course he has. He shoots with Canon.


buffmaloney,

I really feel sorry for all those non-Canon users, they seem to have so many insurmountable problems. :lol: :lol:

Michael G

Reply
Feb 16, 2014 21:24:49   #
marki3rd Loc: Columbus, Indiana
 
Armadillo wrote:
Boentgru,

There may be up to 3 gaps in DSLR bodies. The first gap is called First Curtain, the second gap is Second Curtain, and the third is called “B”. B = Bulb, where you control how long the shutter is opened for long exposures.

Michael G


This statement, culled from your explanation, is incorrect. There is not 3 gaps in DSLR bodies. There is only one gap in the curtain(s). It is the gap in time between the first and second curtain operation. The first curtain moves out of the light path to start the exposure. The second curtain moves into the light path to end the exposure. The time between these two actions is the exposure time (usually referred to as shutter speed).

Reply
Feb 17, 2014 02:04:29   #
Armadillo Loc: Ventura, CA
 
marki3rd wrote:
This statement, culled from your explanation, is incorrect. There is not 3 gaps in DSLR bodies. There is only one gap in the curtain(s). It is the gap in time between the first and second curtain operation. The first curtain moves out of the light path to start the exposure. The second curtain moves into the light path to end the exposure. The time between these two actions is the exposure time (usually referred to as shutter speed).


marki3rd

I stand corrected.
From Wikipedia:
"Some modern electronic cameras include the ability to fire the flash just before the closing of the shutter, so that moving objects will show a streak where they came from and a sharp image where they were at the end of the exposure, useful for moving objects to convey a sense of speed. This mode is called either rear-curtain sync or 2nd-curtain sync."

Reply
Check out Commercial and Industrial Photography section of our forum.
Feb 18, 2014 13:20:44   #
Boentgru Loc: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
 
The mirror flips up for exposing the film, not for measuring the exposure (as any schoolboy knows).

Reply
Feb 18, 2014 13:33:31   #
Armadillo Loc: Ventura, CA
 
Boentgru wrote:
The mirror flips up for exposing the film, not for measuring the exposure (as any schoolboy knows).


Boentgru,

Partially correct. The mirror flips up to allow light to strike the film before the shutter passes an opening in front of the film.

Depending on the camera manufacturer, the mirror may be semi-transparent allowing light to strike on an exposure metering device just behind the mirror, the mirror may block all light from passing through and reflect light up to a prism and into the viewfinder. The prism may also reflect light into an exposure metering device.

Michael G

Reply
Feb 18, 2014 13:37:47   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
marki3rd wrote:
This statement, culled from your explanation, is incorrect. There is not 3 gaps in DSLR bodies. There is only one gap in the curtain(s). It is the gap in time between the first and second curtain operation. The first curtain moves out of the light path to start the exposure. The second curtain moves into the light path to end the exposure. The time between these two actions is the exposure time (usually referred to as shutter speed).


A bit off-topic but nonetheless interesting, I think:

The old Speed Graphic had a cloth focal plane shutter with different sized gaps in it for several shutter speeds- up to 1/1000th/sec.
Video here.
The focal-plane shutter section starts at 2 minute mark.

Another here starting at about 50 sec.

Cameras made back when men were men and nothing was automatic.

Reply
Feb 21, 2014 18:25:24   #
marki3rd Loc: Columbus, Indiana
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
A bit off-topic but nonetheless interesting, I think:

The old Speed Graphic had a cloth focal plane shutter with different sized gaps in it for several shutter speeds- up to 1/1000th/sec.
Video here.
The focal-plane shutter section starts at 2 minute mark.

Another here starting at about 50 sec.



Now that is interesting. Having never used any large format camera I did not know that. Maybe that is where the op got the idea of the 3 gaps?

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Check out Sports Photography section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.