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I't not the camera it's the photographer that counts
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Nov 6, 2013 17:05:10   #
Muddyvalley Loc: McMinnville, Oregon
 
boberic wrote:
I would rather have a good surgeon with a dull pen knife than a med student with a 10 blade. ( a scalpel is the tool that holds the blade)


They called them scalpels long before replaceable blades showed up. I'll take a photo of some for you. :-)
"a small straight thin-bladed knife used especially in surgery"

I'd rather have a good surgeon with a sharp scalpel.

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Nov 6, 2013 17:58:19   #
clickergayle Loc: Warwick, England
 
I Love this thread, though I'm still with Musket - It's always the cameras fault.!!!!!

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Nov 6, 2013 18:45:33   #
TimT Loc: Los Angeles
 
Too often with questions of this kind, people slip right into cliche: "It's not the camera, it's the photographer" etc.

And obviously if you give a great camera system to someone who can't "see" photographically you will generally get crap results. But the more interesting question is what effect good equipment will have on someone who does have the chops.

There are tons of folks who've taken great shots with a point and shoot or an iPhone. But that's not the deeper issue. Because that iPhone will only be able to deliver for certain shot choices.

I remember when I went to Antelope Canyon a couple of years ago. Before I went, I got myself a better tripod and a good wide angle lens. And I ended up with a pile of shots I was proud of.

More than half the folks there that day had a little P&S. And I'm sure there were some great shots made with that equipment. But in that confined situation, an ultra-wide angle lens and tripod give you the [u]possibility[/] of shots that a P&S can't begin to match.

You still have to get your eye in gear to see the good shots. But when a canyon is only a couple of feet wide, having the wrong lens can be frustrating.

The difference between a crop and full frame camera may or may not be limiting for a photographer. But having the right lens for a job will often mean more shots that are keepers.

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Nov 6, 2013 19:27:12   #
nekon Loc: Carterton, New Zealand
 
lighthouse wrote:
No.

What you are saying is right BUT you don't need to try to qualify my comments.
My comments still apply.
"A - better - camera - will - take - better - photos.
A - better - photographer - will - take - better - photos."


You are talking about the finished process.
I am talking about that instant just immediately after the button is pressed. "Making" the image rather than "Taking",(snapshooting) the image


I am talking about making the image with mind and eye before pressing the shutter button, then the action of pressing the button which records the pre-made image-post processing is another matter entirely.

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Nov 6, 2013 19:38:55   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIYMEh7zIEI&feature=youtu.be

"Tanz mit mir" Translation: "Dance with me" (a propos here).
German, English and French in one sentence! As mixed up as this thread.

I am reading all the points of view and stay away.

THAT is the only possible answer.

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Nov 6, 2013 19:49:49   #
dandij Loc: Hoodsport, Washington
 
Bugfan wrote:
When you talk about better pictures what does that actually mean? If it means razor sharp images with fine contrast and hues perfectly exposed I would agree that the tool is what makes the photographer.

But are those better pictures? Have you ever looked at contemporary art? Is it a series of perfect pictures? No, it's often a streak of colour, a bunch of meaningless splotches, wildly distorted perspectives and so forth. Yet in these seemingly "terrible" pictures we get a feeling, we get an impression, we see something. That's what we call art and that's what we usually mean by "better" pictures, pictures that elicit a feeling, that send us a message.

Such pictures don't have to be perfect, in fact perfection often degrades the quality. Portraits for instance should not be razor sharp if they are to be meaningful. In the seventies there was a photographer who became famous for his images. He only used a polaroid SX-70 camera. From a "image quality" perspective they were terrible and yet people saw those images as art and he became very successful.

It doesn't take a professional high end SLR to capture a touching smile or expression, you don't need one to capture a mood or a feeling. What is necessary it to be able to see such things and to be able to capture them with whatever tool you have on hand.

Ok if the lighting is very dim and the contrast is terrible and so forth, a more expensive sophisticated tool will better ensure that you'll capture a perfectly exposed shot. But in the end it's still a magic smile or feeling that is the "better" picture and in the end it's still your ability to capture that fleeting moment that makes the difference between an award winning shot and a loser.

I think you'll understand this better as you become more sophisticated. Though I have two professional SLRs some of my best pictures have come from one or two of the point and shoot cameras I also have. It's not the tool that creates the magic, it's your eye and how you see the world, it's how you are able to respond to your world that does the trick. It's how you use the tool at hand.
When you talk about better pictures what does that... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Dan

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Nov 6, 2013 19:59:45   #
lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode
 
nekon wrote:
I am talking about making the image with mind and eye before pressing the shutter button, then the action of pressing the button which records the pre-made image-post processing is another matter entirely.


And you are going to go through that process with a photo of racehorses crossing a finish line are you, or bears midstream up on their back legs fighting?
And - here is the real question - if you do, then an obsolete 2 megapixel point and shoot is going to do it as good as a D4??
A better camera WILL take a better photo.
A better photographer WILL take a better photo.

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Nov 6, 2013 20:09:20   #
nekon Loc: Carterton, New Zealand
 
lighthouse wrote:
And you are going to go through that process with a photo of racehorses crossing a finish line are you, or bears midstream up on their back legs fighting?
And - here is the real question - if you do, then an obsolete 2 megapixel point and shoot is going to do it as good as a D4??
A better camera WILL take a better photo.
A better photographer WILL take a better photo.


Once you learn photography you will realise that this action becomes second nature-You would have to be very stupid indeed to try to capture fast sports with a point and shoot, or even architecture-these two facets of photography require specifically adequate equipment, But for all else you need to realise the limits of the equipment you have, and work within those limits, to get the very best from what you have-I get dslr quality images from my 14 megapixel 99 dollar point and shoot lumix camera that are comparable to my Nikon D200 at 100%- this shot was made at 800 ISO, too-I learned photography over 50 years ago , when the aim was to get a gamma 0.7 density black and white negative, to print on grade 2 bromide paper.



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Nov 6, 2013 20:11:49   #
nekon Loc: Carterton, New Zealand
 
lighthouse wrote:
And you are going to go through that process with a photo of racehorses crossing a finish line are you, or bears midstream up on their back legs fighting?
And - here is the real question - if you do, then an obsolete 2 megapixel point and shoot is going to do it as good as a D4??
A better camera WILL take a better photo.
A better photographer WILL take a better photo.


A camera will not take, or make a photo-it requires a human input

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Nov 6, 2013 20:14:11   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
THE END................ :)

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Nov 6, 2013 20:14:24   #
Mashubi1 Loc: Salem, Oregon
 
I used to work for a large corporation and after working there awhile I found out almost everyone played golf....so I bought some golf clubs...my golf game didn't go very well and so soon I found myself purchasing a custom set of golf clubs designed to my swing and size...NOW I WAS GOING TO BE ABLE TO PLAY GOLF!!!!! I soon sold the clubs to someone who knew how to play golf....

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Nov 6, 2013 20:42:53   #
lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode
 
Yes.
specifically adequate equipment - a better camera.

And if you are implying that I haven't learnt photography, then you are barking up the wrong tree. I do a lot of stuff that is second nature to me.
And yes, work within those limits, .... or ... get a better camera.
I am sorry, I do not mean to be offensive but - I don't know why you put this photo there as an example Nekon, its not a good photo, its a snapshot and it looks overprocessed.
I started learning photography 30 years ago, and hopefully I will still be learning in another 30.
My most recent photo loaded to this site was taken with an iphone. I quite like how it turned out.
nekon wrote:
Once you learn photography you will realise that this action becomes second nature-You would have to be very stupid indeed to try to capture fast sports with a point and shoot, or even architecture-these two facets of photography require specifically adequate equipment, But for all else you need to realise the limits of the equipment you have, and work within those limits, to get the very best from what you have-I get dslr quality images from my 14 megapixel 99 dollar point and shoot lumix camera that are comparable to my Nikon D200 at 100%- this shot was made at 800 ISO, too-I learned photography over 50 years ago , when the aim was to get a gamma 0.7 density black and white negative, to print on grade 2 bromide paper.
Once you learn photography you will realise that t... (show quote)

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Nov 6, 2013 20:53:30   #
nekon Loc: Carterton, New Zealand
 
lighthouse wrote:
Yes.
specifically adequate equipment - a better camera.

And if you are implying that I haven't learnt photography, then you are barking up the wrong tree. I do a lot of stuff that is second nature to me.
And yes, work within those limits, .... or ... get a better camera.
I am sorry, I do not mean to be offensive but - I don't know why you put this photo there as an example Nekon, its not a good photo, its a snapshot and it looks overprocessed.
I started learning photography 30 years ago, and hopefully I will still be learning in another 30.
My most recent photo loaded to this site was taken with an iphone. I quite like how it turned out.
Yes. br i specifically adequate equipment /i - a... (show quote)


at 71, I an still learning-it's an on-going process.My photo is not a snapshot as a lot of thought went into the making, white balance, direction, intensity and quality of the lighting, The decisive moment, and exposure. Image is not over processed-it's straight from the camera, exposure and composition is excellent, white balance is spot-on. It has been judged by many, all favourably, one quote was: "Looks like it could have been made with a Leica." So you are out of your depth old son.

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Nov 6, 2013 21:09:43   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
Muddyvalley wrote:
They called them scalpels long before replaceable blades showed up. I'll take a photo of some for you. :-)
"a small straight thin-bladed knife used especially in surgery"

I'd rather have a good surgeon with a sharp scalpel.


I only go back to 1967. A skin knife was (and still is - a scalpel with a detachable 10 blade.

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Nov 6, 2013 21:13:02   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
Let me tell you of my experience of being a novice - newbie photographer with my first SLR.
A total novice at age 54 - my close friend mentioned he was going to upgrade his Film SLR and sell his old one. I mentioned I had always wanted to have a decent camera - a SLR was just a dream for me - he offered to sell me his older SLR on 2 conditions - #1 I use it a while before paying him for it and #2 - I join a camera club with him so we both could learn to use our cameras better - yes folks that was 11 yrs ago an i am still striving to improve my photos through groups like UHH.
Harvey

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