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Why do folks insist that Manual is Better?
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Oct 13, 2013 21:24:14   #
RolandComfort Loc: Saint Louis
 
Uhh, I was just pointing out that wide dynamic range situations like with a bright window in the shot work best in manual mode. You have to keep the shutter speed at 250 to catch all of the flash. Guess you could go shutter priority, but my guess is the camera will open the f/stop all the way. This is really all about how to shoot using manual strobes. If you are using manual strobes, I think you have to go manual all the way.

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Oct 13, 2013 21:25:36   #
JPL
 
Nightski wrote:
I didn't buy the weekend or more thing either :D


Hei, I never said anything about a weekend to take quality pics constantly. To do that you need lot of practice, with both manual and auto settings. But it only takes a weekend or so to learn and understand the basics of photography and to start benefiting from manual settings. Becoming a good photographer is a different thing.

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Oct 13, 2013 21:44:36   #
Photographer Jim Loc: Rio Vista, CA
 
LOL. I have been out on my son's boat with him and the grandkids. My ears were burning most of the afternoon. I assumed it was the sun and wind, but in getting home I have discovered that it was more likely due to having my comment about shooting panos called into question.

Two quick comments. First, the real gist of my original comment was really focused elsewhere. I made the pano comment as an illustration of a time when one might claim manual shooting to be best. What followed was my real point: some people use the whole "manual shooting is best"position as a means of belittling those who do not.

Second, having clarified my intent, I will go on record as saying I personally believe manual shooting for panos is the best strategy. I agree that AV mode may work just fine, sometimes. However I also believe that it will result in more missed images over time due to differences in exposure which are not able to be seamlessly merged in the stitching program than will shooting panos in manual mode. (And yes, MtnMan, I was including manual focus in those settings as well). If asked for a recommendation, it is the advice I would give.

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Oct 13, 2013 21:58:50   #
architect Loc: Chattanooga
 
Winpix wrote:
...Once the photographer has mastered the various functions of each of the three controls and how the various auto modes deal with them then there is only personal choice involved in how correct exposure is achieved. There is no one way to make photographs and anyone who tells you there is is lying to you!!!


I am not sure they are lying, just ignorant of the possibilities and ways of creating the image. Auto modes, used intelligently, and modified as required by exposure compensation, allow more freedom to capture great images, in my opinion.

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Oct 13, 2013 22:10:17   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
RolandComfort wrote:
Uhh, I was just pointing out that wide dynamic range situations like with a bright window in the shot work best in manual mode. You have to keep the shutter speed at 250 to catch all of the flash. Guess you could go shutter priority, but my guess is the camera will open the f/stop all the way. This is really all about how to shoot using manual strobes. If you are using manual strobes, I think you have to go manual all the way.


Ah. I have no views on using flash. Although I bought a good one for the new cameras I hardly ever use it because of the high ISO performance capability.

Nikon gives you three possibilities for dealing with those situations:
1. In-camera HDR
2. Active D-lighting
3. Bracketing
I use all from time to time and have been learning to use bracketing to make HDRs in post. I'm not impressed with Nikon's two-shot HDR.

None of them require using manual exposure.

Once again I have no problem using manual exposure. I just think it stupid to insert yourself into the electronic link to center the meter. I did that for 30 years on my SLR and am happy to not.

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Oct 13, 2013 22:15:08   #
MtnMan Loc: ID
 
architect wrote:
I am not sure they are lying, just ignorant of the possibilities and ways of creating the image. Auto modes, used intelligently, and modified as required by exposure compensation, allow more freedom to capture great images, in my opinion.


And a good opinion it is.

I do object to calling Aperture and Shutter priority, or Program mode for that matter, "Auto modes".

The reason is that "Auto" is a mode in its own right; at least on Nikons. It is green and says Auto. It is a different mode than the others. The cameras that have it lock in most exposure and focusing decisions when you use it. My D5100 and D7000 had it. My D800 doesn't.

Nikon cameras do not lock in exposure in Program mode. Although it starts with a recommended pair you can turn the thumbwheel to get different combos of shutter speed and f-stop. You can manually adjust the focusing mode, metering mode, and ISO. Quite different than Auto mode.

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Oct 13, 2013 22:54:36   #
Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.
 
MtnMan wrote:
Ah. I have no views on using flash. Although I bought a good one for the new cameras I hardly ever use it because of the high ISO performance capability.

Nikon gives you three possibilities for dealing with those situations:
1. In-camera HDR
2. Active D-lighting
3. Bracketing
I use all from time to time and have been learning to use bracketing to make HDRs in post. I'm not impressed with Nikon's two-shot HDR.

None of them require using manual exposure.



Once again I have no problem using manual exposure. I just think it stupid to insert yourself into the electronic link to center the meter. I did that for 30 years on my SLR and am happy to not.
Ah. I have no views on using flash. Although I bou... (show quote)


I too mostly use aperture priority and adjust ev when necessary but even +3/-3 bracketing would not have covered the situation I had yesterday. I was fortunate enough to get an inside tour of the Bodie Ghost Town buildings but couldn't use flash. Because some of the rooms were so dimly lit and windows were in the shot, I had to shoot to expose two or more shots to bracket way beyond any cameras ability to do an auto exposure bracket.

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Oct 13, 2013 23:45:34   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
Effate wrote:
I too mostly use aperture priority and adjust ev when necessary but even +3/-3 bracketing would not have covered the situation I had yesterday. I was fortunate enough to get an inside tour of the Bodie Ghost Town buildings but couldn't use flash. Because some of the rooms were so dimly lit and windows were in the shot, I had to shoot to expose two or more shots to bracket way beyond any cameras ability to do an auto exposure bracket.

What time of the day were you there? Were you on a tour or part of a photo workshop? The workshops are expensive, but include a leader and/or a monitor, most of which are trained to help you get the most from interior shots. Also the time of year and time of day can be critical. It seems that every window at Bodie face a different direction. You practically have to spend a day (or two) plotting which buildings you want to shoot at each hour of the day. Also, has Bodie yet implemented a special tour for photographers with tripods? They were talking about doing so, but each tripod would have to have rubber feet. It's hard to shoot there and stay within their "arrested decay" parameters.

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Oct 13, 2013 23:57:47   #
RolandComfort Loc: Saint Louis
 
I'm a filmmaker guy who jumped on the HDSLR Canon 7D, 5D bandwagon a couple years ago to make movies using all the great lenses available on these still/movie cameras. If you are shooting movies in 24p then you have to lock shutter at 50. If you want a shallow DOF then you have to keep aperture open at around f/2.8. So, all that leaves is ISO and added light. You can't put ISO on auto unless it's a static shot. If you pan from bright to dark you don't want the viewer to see the camera adjust. So, I guess that's why I think manual. I love shooting stills and the experience has taught me a lot about how to use the 7D for movie making.

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Oct 14, 2013 00:39:04   #
Ernie Misner Loc: Lakewood, WA
 
How many shoot landscapes? You find out real quick why manual is much preferred in this situation. Of course moving objects in changing light finds aperture preferred to be the way go go.

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Oct 14, 2013 01:02:19   #
RolandComfort Loc: Saint Louis
 
I love shooting landscapes, though they usually are outside and inside shots of buildings. My favorite lens is a Sigma 10-20mm. I just set it at 10mm hyperfocal at about 4 feet and forget it. Everything from 2 feet to infinity is in focus. Because I use the 7D with cropped sensor, the end result is about 16mm, wide enough that I have to make sure my feet are not in the picture. Ha!

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Oct 14, 2013 01:13:58   #
Ernie Misner Loc: Lakewood, WA
 
I bet you have some excellent shots with that Sigma lens. How far can you stop it down without loosing sharpness?

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Oct 14, 2013 01:33:23   #
Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
 
Nightski wrote:
See, this is exactly what I mean, Chuck. When you view any part of operating your camera as drudgery, then you've lost your passion. I feel exhilarated every time I hold my camera. I love messing with my settings. I don't care if I wrecked the shot, because then I can go back out and try it again. I love going back out and trying again. I can't wait for the next time that I can get out and shoot. No conceit here, Chuck. I'm not good enough for that. It's just an unbelievable passion for the hobby. That's all.
See, this is exactly what I mean, Chuck. When you ... (show quote)


your total out look will change , we were all where you are right now, I have been doing this for fifty years . I seem to recall a few posts back you were rellatively new at this game . I'm sure chuck has been around also . we also thought at one time or another that we were . a couple steps above the auto
every thing shooter . manual was the holygrall , after all we knew all the
jargen , f stops Asa, push prosessing , the list goes on , oh" we were so
smart . the camera is only a tool just because you can set it yourself doesent
make you any wiser . try and set it with to high a shutter speed and see what
happens , try and and use a to big or two small a fstop and see what
happens. or push any of the other settings out of bounds . by using manual
does not make you the photograph you think you are . your just shifting to a
different setting that the camera will allow you to do . but get it wrong it will
let you know . I'll change shutter speeds of fstops . depends on what I'm
trying to do . but if I'm just strolling along and don't want to get all wrapped up in all that s-i-t . I just leave it in p and let the camera pick the fstop and shutter . none of my pictures have suffered because . 90 percent of the time it can pick better than you . don't forget in manual your just setting what's already built into camera . you are no wiz kid . what is this over 20 pages and I'm only on the first one , it's going to be a long night . I think I'll play around with the settings on my oven , maybe I can bake the perfect apple pie . let's see 5 min at 450 deg , then down to 325 deg for 15 min . not brown enough ,
I'll have to switch to broil for 7 min , I'll have to be careful with that it's full auto red hot , and be there . ( or it will be over exposed ) . these dam ovens when are they going to make one that's full auto . just stick the pie in
close the door . tell it you will be home at a certain time and you want it ready to when you get back , and not hot .

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Oct 14, 2013 01:37:05   #
RolandComfort Loc: Saint Louis
 
I usually keep it around f/5.6 or higher for real estate shots, so focus is ok. Like I said before, most of my still shooting is interior real estate shots using strobes. Usually, I have to cover for a bright window, so shutter goes to 250 and f/5.6 to 7.3 and two YN 560 guns at 1/2 aimed at the ceiling. The camera is on a tripod. I just stand behind it or off to the side, holding my arms up to the ceiling, and fire using a radio control taped to one of the guns. Adjustments are made using f/stop and flashgun power. However, I shoot RAW, so it really doesn't matter. RAW gives you like 13 stops of latitude, but, I like to get the shot pretty visible for editing in PS CS5 RAW.

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Oct 14, 2013 01:39:51   #
Bram boy Loc: Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
 
John Lawrence wrote:
I'll go first so you won't get hurt right out of the box. I think everyone who has ever picked up a camera has their own reasons, their own goals and their own style of shooting. Although everyone likes to think their way is the best way, there really is no right or wrong way for taking pictures.

Many people tend to become polarized in their thinking and feel they have found the one true path. We see this in politics and religion so it's no surprise when we see it in photography. Many true believers believe it's their mission to tear down the false idols and proclaim theirs as the only true way.

The truth is there isn't one true way to take good pictures. There isn't a
person with a camera who doesn't take their share of good pictures, fair
pictures and bad pictures. The only thing that differs is the number of shots in
each category. Happiness is taking good pictures by any means you may
choose
Thanks for getting my engine going this slow morning. I'm ready now to face the world for yet another day. I'll expect a daily post from you from now on to start my morning.

John
I'll go first so you won't get hurt right out of t... (show quote)


the best answer so far .

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