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Mini-rant...Just say no if it's going to be that difficult...
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May 23, 2013 11:59:47   #
DebAnn Loc: Toronto
 
I expect with a "request" like that, you got a great shot of a group of very grumpy looking people! It's easy to control a group if it looks like you are in control.
JR1 wrote:
Ah but as you know I am an extrovert, and it took me A LOT of courage to be able to say to a wedding group "Shut up and look at me for just five seconds in your life" so I guess it must be hard for a quiet person

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May 23, 2013 12:09:56   #
Country's Mama Loc: Michigan
 
Mudshark wrote:
Major Ditto...Rant-On Rpavich!!!

I have two, twenty something daughters who have and continue to accomplish some damn-near impossible feats. All the time they were growing up...every time one would use the words "I can't" I'd land on them...(I'm old school Navy)..."Do not use that word...YOU CAN AND YOU WILL!!!...NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE...YOU JUST HAVEN'T FOUND A WAY YET!!!" It's about a mindset...and it is being lost in our culture...


:thumbup:

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May 23, 2013 12:21:24   #
tainkc Loc: Kansas City
 
skidooman wrote:
Yes, iphone photography is a sign of what's to come. But I won't be the first wedding photographer to show up with just an iphone :)
I now use a Galaxy as my back up.

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May 23, 2013 12:25:20   #
tainkc Loc: Kansas City
 
jerryc41 wrote:
People make fun of iPhone cameras and their users, but those in the know know that they take very good pictures. The iPhone 5 will have an even better camera. I was at a graduation recently, and many people were using their smartphones to record movies of the event. Amazing.

When you think back to the "wonders" we saw on Star Trek and Star Wars, modern technology has surpassed that. I remember seeing a "digital" clock on the original Star Trek. It wasn't LED; it was just the little black and white cards that would flip forward as time advanced.
People make fun of iPhone cameras and their users,... (show quote)
My ex father in law had a 1960 copy of Popular Electronics and the cover showed a big satellite dish mounted on a house and the article was about how some day everyone will have one in their backyard for tv reception from space.

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May 23, 2013 12:33:48   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Here's the nub: "people who want to get good images, DO things to make it happen...they just don't take what the environment or subject gives them."

Minor White said it takes 10 years to learn photography.

This observation suggests the individual doing photography must pay attention to the craft of photography for good results.

In addition, this observation implies few if any shortcuts exist in learning how to do photography.

The individual in his quest of photography skills must learn from both his mistakes and his successes. No substitute for this practice of the craft exists.

Those individuals who decline to engage this learning curve will continue to produce sub-par photographs. They will remain snapshooters.

BTW: Most of the individuals taking pictures worldwide function as snapshooters, and happily so. They just want a picture of the moment. The cameramakers cater to them endlessly.

Enough said.
rpavich wrote:
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but if this isn't your thing...you can pass this thread by...you won't hurt my feelings... :)

I've noticed something that happens with newbie photogs but not with those who've either got a business or who've got a LOT of experience...and that's the "tying my hands but I need to get good shots" syndrome.

Example:

Newbie: "what do you think of shots I took at the local Barbie and Ken collectors club? How can I improve?

Me: "well...the light is bad, coming from the wrong direction, and the focus is very off, and the pose isn't flattering...could you have used a flash?"

Newbie: "Don't have a flash"

Me: "Could you have put them near a window?"

Newbie: "Couldn't move them."

Me: "Could you have had them at least TURN towards the window?"

Newbie: "nope."

Me: "How about the focus....could you nail the eyes next time?"

Newbie: "They were moving...I couldn't."

Me: "...ok....could you have them stand on an X... or something so that they slow down to allow you to pose them better?"

Newbie: "...nope"


And on an on it goes...where the noob is trying to do the impossible; to get images that are decent, all the while being unwilling to at least get a cheap flash, or move people around, or to pose them, or ask them to stop moving for 10 seconds or anything to get a decent shot..they are left with ....underexposed shots , lit with the worst light possible, with no poses worth talking about, and no ability to at least attempt to get good focus...and then asking how they can "improve" their shots.


One thing that I've learned in my almost non-existent photog experience is that people who want to get good images, DO things to make it happen...they just don't take what the environment or subject gives them...even if it's as simple as a large white piece of cardboard to reflect light into the subject's face or moving the subject into the shade or SOMETHING....and if the conditions are such that images that are decent aren't possible..they decline to be the one to produce them.


Ok...rant over. :)
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but... (show quote)

Storm Clouds Over Neighborhood
Storm Clouds Over Neighborhood...

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May 23, 2013 12:38:07   #
sinatraman Loc: Vero Beach Florida, Earth,alpha quaudrant
 
right there you defined the difference between a photographer and a snapshooter. A photographer is always experimenting, looking for ways around or thru any roadblock. snapshooters just capture the moment weather its good bad or indifferent.

latest experiment I did that was sucessful was I was shooting a still life and put a gold colored christmas bow between my in camera flash and my diffuser. Gave a nice gold colored tint to the photo!

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May 23, 2013 13:14:37   #
billgrolz
 
One thing I learned is- sometimes there is not good shot to be had. Just walk away and look for another.

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May 23, 2013 13:20:00   #
bogeyeliot Loc: Signal Hill, CA
 
mfeveland wrote:
I can tell that I've been on the Hog for awhile since I'm now beginning to understand your semantics the first time I read your post...lol.


Good one! And with apologies to JR1 whose comments and photos I actually enjoy!

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May 23, 2013 13:34:28   #
ThomasS Loc: Colorado
 
JR1 wrote:
And what's wrong with this then :)

My advice HAND HOLD do not use a tripod OR monopod

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-96570-1.html


A very nice job of panning! What were you using?

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May 23, 2013 13:43:15   #
DanDickens2
 
Thomas Jefferson shortly after becoming President was asked, how long did he think the new republic would last. He estimated 50 - 75 years, adding that certainly the next generation would invent a better form of government. Sometime around Jackson - they began to take an oath to protect a document. Did anyone see the "Con" in Constitution? Henry Ford angry with his engineers over the development of the V-8 engine told them "you can think you can, or you can think you can not - either way you are right!" Ford had a vision in his head of the V-8, however - he himself was not able to engineer it himself - he was the can-not of his own can does. God chose the Hebrew people as his chosen people for the world to follow - Carl Marx was Hebrew. Then Christ told us to Love our Enemies - who then is our biggest enemy of all? Christ told Pilot - I am he who seeks the truth. Never said I am he who will find the truth. If the truth will set you free - then perhaps we need a new brand of freedom - one where no body has to die for it. If some one tells you - "Never look back, to put the past behind you," are they too trying to set you up to pull the same old tricks on you again in the future. Where have all the Flowers gone? - does it really matter - new ones spring up every Spring, along with the weeds. Bumper Sticker - "If I am driving too slow - then go home and wait till I'm off the Road." Another Bumper Sticker - "If you can read this, then you too are saving gas." "Read My Lips" - if only the forked tongue were out of the way. The Difference between a Republican and a Democrat - A Democrat is someone who will force you to borrow money, without your permission, make you pay it back - while they play God. A Republican is someone who will force you to borrow money, without your permission, make you pay it back - and blame you for not having enough money to pay for your house. When the human race has run - the rats will have won!

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May 23, 2013 13:46:24   #
bogeyeliot Loc: Signal Hill, CA
 
Swamp Gator wrote:
At least in my case I'm going to disagree with that 100%.

For my wildlife photography I spend a lot of time observing and learning bird and animal behavior. This is key in getting good action shots.
I take note of certain locations and what I might see there. I pay close attention to time of day which affects lighting. I pay attention to such things as tides and water levels in marshes.
And after all that you still have to get the image in focus, and have the proper settings to come back with a good pic.

Plus, I'm going to repeat the part about time, I put in a good amount of time doing this. So when someone looks at one of my photos and says I got "lucky" I want to whack them over the head with a tripod.

In fact, I'm sharpening a stick right now to poke in the eye of the next person that looks at one of my photos and comments..."you were in the right place at the right time"
as if it was just pure dumb luck that got me the pic.
It doesn't quite work just like that.
At least in my case I'm going to disagree with tha... (show quote)


Totally agree with SG here....in my own (very) small way I'm also learning that you have to know something about what you're trying to shoot, especially animals....my recent "kestrel" posts are an example of SG's point....I first saw one kestrel flying around, then actually got a couple of shots...then saw a second slightly different-looking kestrel (now a male and a female have been sighted), put two and two together and began looking for a nest, which I found, and now the chicks are probably going to be flying in a week or so......

Not trying to brag or in any way put myself in SG's ability level, just illustrating that his point is absolutely spot on....we all can do far better with our photos if we know more about the subjects we're trying to shoot.....

Thanks to all the hoggers who contribute to this site, good and bad....
John

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May 23, 2013 13:53:20   #
bogeyeliot Loc: Signal Hill, CA
 
mfeveland wrote:
Kind of like not using the shift key on a keyboard. It's right there next to the little finger, but they refuse to put out the effort to use it.... chuckle.


You're on a roll today mfeve!

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May 23, 2013 13:53:52   #
wlgoode Loc: Globe, AZ
 
rpavich wrote:
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but if this isn't your thing...you can pass this thread by...you won't hurt my feelings... :)

I've noticed something that happens with newbie photogs but not with those who've either got a business or who've got a LOT of experience...and that's the "tying my hands but I need to get good shots" syndrome.

Example:

Newbie: "what do you think of shots I took at the local Barbie and Ken collectors club? How can I improve?

Me: "well...the light is bad, coming from the wrong direction, and the focus is very off, and the pose isn't flattering...could you have used a flash?"

Newbie: "Don't have a flash"

Me: "Could you have put them near a window?"

Newbie: "Couldn't move them."

Me: "Could you have had them at least TURN towards the window?"

Newbie: "nope."

Me: "How about the focus....could you nail the eyes next time?"

Newbie: "They were moving...I couldn't."

Me: "...ok....could you have them stand on an X... or something so that they slow down to allow you to pose them better?"

Newbie: "...nope"


And on an on it goes...where the noob is trying to do the impossible; to get images that are decent, all the while being unwilling to at least get a cheap flash, or move people around, or to pose them, or ask them to stop moving for 10 seconds or anything to get a decent shot..they are left with ....underexposed shots , lit with the worst light possible, with no poses worth talking about, and no ability to at least attempt to get good focus...and then asking how they can "improve" their shots.


One thing that I've learned in my almost non-existent photog experience is that people who want to get good images, DO things to make it happen...they just don't take what the environment or subject gives them...even if it's as simple as a large white piece of cardboard to reflect light into the subject's face or moving the subject into the shade or SOMETHING....and if the conditions are such that images that are decent aren't possible..they decline to be the one to produce them.


Ok...rant over. :)
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but... (show quote)


Photography is a lifelong learning thing. And unlike most visual arts it is a blend of art and technology.

The steps in competence:

1- Unconscious incompetence

2- Conscious incompetence

3- Conscious competence

4- Unconscious competence

After 35 yrs in photography I usually feel somewhere between stage 2 and 3. In the rare times I believe I was in Stage 4 it was transcending.

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May 23, 2013 14:57:50   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
rpavich wrote:
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but if this isn't your thing...you can pass this thread by...you won't hurt my feelings... :)

I've noticed something that happens with newbie photogs but not with those who've either got a business or who've got a LOT of experience...and that's the "tying my hands but I need to get good shots" syndrome.

Example:

Newbie: "what do you think of shots I took at the local Barbie and Ken collectors club? How can I improve?

Me: "well...the light is bad, coming from the wrong direction, and the focus is very off, and the pose isn't flattering...could you have used a flash?"

Newbie: "Don't have a flash"

Me: "Could you have put them near a window?"

Newbie: "Couldn't move them."

Me: "Could you have had them at least TURN towards the window?"

Newbie: "nope."

Me: "How about the focus....could you nail the eyes next time?"

Newbie: "They were moving...I couldn't."

Me: "...ok....could you have them stand on an X... or something so that they slow down to allow you to pose them better?"

Newbie: "...nope"


And on an on it goes...where the noob is trying to do the impossible; to get images that are decent, all the while being unwilling to at least get a cheap flash, or move people around, or to pose them, or ask them to stop moving for 10 seconds or anything to get a decent shot..they are left with ....underexposed shots , lit with the worst light possible, with no poses worth talking about, and no ability to at least attempt to get good focus...and then asking how they can "improve" their shots.


One thing that I've learned in my almost non-existent photog experience is that people who want to get good images, DO things to make it happen...they just don't take what the environment or subject gives them...even if it's as simple as a large white piece of cardboard to reflect light into the subject's face or moving the subject into the shade or SOMETHING....and if the conditions are such that images that are decent aren't possible..they decline to be the one to produce them.


Ok...rant over. :)
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but... (show quote)



I am sure there are plenty of people who resist any suggestion you make. Some of them are really listening, but it will take some time for them to accept good advice. Others soak it up like a sponge.

A friend of mine began as a tourist photographer who took horrible images. He always subjected me to hours of the visual drudgery he had perpetrated. I finally decided to find a tactful way of telling him what he needed to change. The initial suggestions were well known principles that all of us learn son after beginning to experiment with campers, such as the rule of thirds, and framing.

The man instantly improved. As a matter of fact, he is now a better photographer than I am. He can create art on demand, whereas I can do it only now and then. He has won awards for the photos he has taken at great sites around the world, such as the Colosseum, the Eiffel Tower, and the Great Wall.

Another began by posting the most horrid images on Facebook. I gave her a few tips, and now she is effortlessly producing beautiful images. Every person has his/her own ceiling, which depends not just on ability, but motivation and the wisdom to accept good advice.

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May 23, 2013 15:01:52   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Oh and don't forget those that want to to tell them how to use their new cameras. These have obviously:

1. Never opened the manual. My response is RTFM. (Go to any Linux news list to figure this one out.)
2. Never used google to search for hints.
3. Never watched anything on youtube that might help them get what they need.
4. Never talked to the sales people where their gem was purchased.
an so on and so on!

Now I also feel better!


rpavich wrote:
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but if this isn't your thing...you can pass this thread by...you won't hurt my feelings... :)

I've noticed something that happens with newbie photogs but not with those who've either got a business or who've got a LOT of experience...and that's the "tying my hands but I need to get good shots" syndrome.

Example:

Newbie: "what do you think of shots I took at the local Barbie and Ken collectors club? How can I improve?

Me: "well...the light is bad, coming from the wrong direction, and the focus is very off, and the pose isn't flattering...could you have used a flash?"

Newbie: "Don't have a flash"

Me: "Could you have put them near a window?"

Newbie: "Couldn't move them."

Me: "Could you have had them at least TURN towards the window?"

Newbie: "nope."

Me: "How about the focus....could you nail the eyes next time?"

Newbie: "They were moving...I couldn't."

Me: "...ok....could you have them stand on an X... or something so that they slow down to allow you to pose them better?"

Newbie: "...nope"


And on an on it goes...where the noob is trying to do the impossible; to get images that are decent, all the while being unwilling to at least get a cheap flash, or move people around, or to pose them, or ask them to stop moving for 10 seconds or anything to get a decent shot..they are left with ....underexposed shots , lit with the worst light possible, with no poses worth talking about, and no ability to at least attempt to get good focus...and then asking how they can "improve" their shots.


One thing that I've learned in my almost non-existent photog experience is that people who want to get good images, DO things to make it happen...they just don't take what the environment or subject gives them...even if it's as simple as a large white piece of cardboard to reflect light into the subject's face or moving the subject into the shade or SOMETHING....and if the conditions are such that images that are decent aren't possible..they decline to be the one to produce them.


Ok...rant over. :)
Ok...I'm going to rant (or vent if you prefer) but... (show quote)

Reply
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