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Miranda Rights!
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Apr 21, 2013 10:03:01   #
Old Boots Loc: Caldwell Co., Texas
 
That is my understanding too. They have already "confessed" to the guy they hijacked.
Pepper wrote:
I understood that they have enough evidence and proof to convict without any further information. They're not concerned with being able to use anything this puke has to say in court they're trying to find out if this is a part of a larger plot or group and therefore invoked the act that allows delaying Miranda.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:11:50   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
I am very interested in the fact that Miranda rights were denied to the bombing suspect in Boston... Don't get me wrong, this guy needs to be burning in hell asap, but that does not negate his constitutionally guaranteed rights as a citizen of our country... Just so people don't think that I am bashing the administration, that is not what this post is about, several republicans are strong advocates for not allowing Miranda rights in this particular case John McCain and Lindsey Graham have both been outspoken on the subject...

But is this not what our constitution is all about, preserving our individual rights against the events of any given period of time and the tyranny of the collective good in such times?
I am very interested in the fact that Miranda righ... (show quote)


I saw reference to (I believe) a public safety exception to the ruling. Is it in the law, or Supreme Court ruling--I don't know.

It is a legitimate concern, but now you have something you can look up.

The government must prove its case in court, and their are rules that apply to both sides.

The 'enemy combatant' concept is geo bush, and it is silly, stupid, and destructive. That is why we still have gitmo.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:13:12   #
BigBear Loc: Northern CT
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
LOL I hear on the news that the good people of Massachusetts have twice voted to reinstate the death penalty but that the state government would not abide by the will of the people and that is the only reason that the state has no death penalty.


CT had the death penalty until the great legislature that they are, repealed it last year and turned loose over 8,000 hardened criminals because the prisons were over crowded. Many of them committed more murders to be re-arrested, then released on bond. Several prisons have been shut down because of lack of inmates.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:13:54   #
LaughBrian Loc: Tn
 
Frank T wrote:
There's been an exception to Miranda for more than twenty years. The exception is that if as a matter of public safety, you need to get information, you don't need to advise the subject of his Miranda rights.
In this case, the public safety issue is, "Are there more IED's, devices or substances that can harm the public out there?'
Thus, no Miranda is necessary at this time. They will however advise him of his Miranda rights in the near future; maybe a day or two. He's not being treated any differently than anyone else under similar circumstances.
There's been an exception to Miranda for more than... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Apr 21, 2013 10:15:42   #
TimS Loc: GA
 
Just a thought. What IF the older brother made the bombs unbeknownst to his little brother. What IF his little brother was ignorant that the package contained a bomb. What IF big brother told little brother - hey lets pull a practical joke in everyone. Drop this package with a pressure cooker in it and let's see how many people freak out. What if after the explosions, big brother told little brother that if he said or did anything to turn big brother in, little brother would be hunted down and killed along with uncle, mom, and dad?

Just sayin'

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Apr 21, 2013 10:18:23   #
BigBear Loc: Northern CT
 
TimS wrote:
Just a thought. What IF the older brother made the bombs unbeknownst to his little brother. What IF his little brother was ignorant that the package contained a bomb. What IF big brother told little brother - hey lets pull a practical joke in everyone. Drop this package with a pressure cooker in it and let's see how many people freak out. What if after the explosions, big brother told little brother that if he said or did anything to turn big brother in, little brother would be hunted down and killed along with uncle, mom, and dad?

Just sayin'
Just a thought. What IF the older brother made the... (show quote)


That's a far stretch. He knew what his brother was up to. He was armed too.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:20:28   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
Twardlow wrote:
I saw reference to (I believe) a public safety exception to the ruling. Is it in the law, or Supreme Court ruling--I don't know.

It is a legitimate concern, but now you have something you can look up.

The government must prove its case in court, and their are rules that apply to both sides.

The 'enemy combatant' concept is geo bush, and it is silly, stupid, and destructive. That is why we still have gitmo.


The 'enemy combatant' concept is from the Geneva Convention. Since the U. S. and the U. K. are almost the only countries left that adhere to the formal "rules of war" I suppose it is "silly" as you put it. Unfortunately, the Geneva Convention is still part of International law and applies to the "War on Terror".

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Apr 21, 2013 10:21:32   #
raymondh Loc: Walker, MI
 
The constitution entitles us to a, pretty much, unlimited bundle of freedoms & rights. I say, pretty much, because you can't shout fire in a crowded theater. To me this implies that there must be a certain level of responsibility by an individual (however miniscule these days), to insure that he is afforded the protections that society has provided him. In the U.S., the line in the sand is at the top of Everest and when it's crossed, you have nothing. Including Miranda rights.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:23:35   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
TimS wrote:
Just a thought. What IF the older brother made the bombs unbeknownst to his little brother. What IF his little brother was ignorant that the package contained a bomb. What IF big brother told little brother - hey lets pull a practical joke in everyone. Drop this package with a pressure cooker in it and let's see how many people freak out. What if after the explosions, big brother told little brother that if he said or did anything to turn big brother in, little brother would be hunted down and killed along with uncle, mom, and dad?

Just sayin'
Just a thought. What IF the older brother made the... (show quote)


They hyjacked a car and held the owner hostage for a brief time. They bragged to him about setting the bombs. How does that fit your senario?

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Apr 21, 2013 10:26:39   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
Unlike some our politicians who can speak of exceptions in an attempt to win votes, I do not believe any exceptions to our constitution are permitted. Although pursued by many self-servers, I think it has withstood the test of time and effort quite well.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:31:34   #
PatrickTheCop Loc: Spartanburg, SC
 
pbearperry wrote:
That is true,but at that point I believe Mirandas would be given ,at least in my home State.


You sir, are incorrect. A criminal suspect NEVER has to be advised of his Miranda rights if police do not question him. I can listen all day long to anything he wants to tell me by voluntarily blurting it out provided I did not ask him any questions about the crime to cause him to do so. And I can use every bit of that in court against him. By the way, Miranda is also only required in the case of a custodial interview/interrogation. That was certainly the case here but I hear it all the time when I do non custodial interviews and it later gets challenged and of course I am upheld.

The quick and dirty of Miranda is this:

1. Is this a custodial interview (meaning the person is NOT free to leave)?
2. Is the officer asking him/her about a criminal act?
3. Is there a public safety emergency (meaning an ongoing danger to the public)*?

If the answer to either 1 or 2 are no OR the answer to 3 is yes, then Miranda is NOT required.

* This only applies to questions regarding the ongoing emergency, not to actions that do not relate to the emergency. In this case questions like, "Are there more bombs? Are there other members of your group still trying to plant bombs?" etc. are all permissible without Miranda. Questions like, "Did you make or plant the marathon bombs? Where did you get the bomb material from?" are not permitted without Miranda because they are not related to the ongoing emergency.

You may also find it interesting to note that the US Supreme Court has also ruled that even when a suspect has been Mirandized, he has NOT invoked any of those rights unless he does so in clear and unambiguous terms and that the police are under NO obligation to ask clarifying questions in that event prior to questioning. For example, if I read a suspect his rights and he says, "Maybe I better talk to a lawyer first," that is not a clear and unambiguous invocation. It means he is undecided and questioning may proceed.

Please note this only applies to criminal investigations. I am not familiar with the federal statutes, rules or legislative acts on terrorism activities.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:33:44   #
donrosshill Loc: Delaware & Florida
 
Hey Blurryeyed, I took a look at your flikr site. Great images.
When or have you written an article on how you do these wonderful images?

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Apr 21, 2013 10:47:31   #
RMM Loc: Suburban New York
 
There are police and probably federal agents outside his door, which sure sounds like being in custody to me. So he probably should be Mirandized. The worst thing that could happen is that he gets off because of failure to do so.

Massachusetts does not have the death penalty, but if it turns out that they were acting under direction or with assistance from foreign sources, it would turn into a federal crime, and for that, the death penalty might apply.

The Nazis had lawyers at Nuremberg. Seems like we should be able to provide a fair trial with lawyers and Miranda rights. Otherwise, we really are on a slippery slope. I consider the Patriot Act (how Orwell would have loved that one!) an abomination.

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Apr 21, 2013 10:47:47   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
donrosshill wrote:
Hey Blurryeyed, I took a look at your flikr site. Great images.
When or have you written an article on how you do these wonderful images?


I can give you some links, the Lord V blog post is one of the best articles I have ever read on Macro Photography, some great information there... I am also linking a post to our FAQ section here on this site for Reversed and Stacked lenses. And a link to Thomas Shahan's Flickr page whose wonderful photography with a home fashioned $50 macro lens got me interested in reversed lens photography in the first place.

Lord V

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=807056&referrerid=343548

FAQ

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-90623-1.html

Thomas Shahan

http://www.flickr.com/photos/opoterser

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Apr 21, 2013 10:58:25   #
docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado
 
are you saying the bombing by a 19 yr old and his disaffected brother was an act of war?

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