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Abortions: WWJD?
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May 6, 2024 15:54:57   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
Wyantry wrote:
According to the bible, a person is not “alive” until breath is drawn.

”It can be said with absolute certainty that ancient scripture does not consider a zygote or a fetus even to be alive, because it has not yet drawn breath.

There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that a fetus is considered to be anything other than living tissue and, according to scripture, it does not become a living being until after it has taken a breath. Among other biblical verses supporting this truth are these:

Genesis 2:7 — God ‘breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being’.
Although the man was fully formed by God in all respects, he was not a living being until after taking his first breath.

Job 33:4 — God formed man, then: ‘The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.’

Ezekiel 37:5&6 — ‘Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live...’.” — C. A. Farrington (Emphasis added)

https://www.news-press.com/story/opinion/contributors/2015/10/16/bibles-truth-fetus-abortion/74001632/#
~~~~~~~~~~~

Biblical references to the beginnings of life.

”For a more direct statement on when life begins, we should look to the formation of Adam in Genesis 2—a text that has been at the heart of both Jewish and Christian understandings of humanity and the nature of human life for millennia. The author refers explicitly to the beginning of Adam’s life in verse 7:
‘Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.’
When does Adam become a living being? When God breathes the breath of life into his nostrils. On this basis, many strands of Judaism have taught for centuries that life begins at first breath.

“The Bible has more to say about the status of the entity growing in a mother’s womb.
Exodus 21: No death penalty for causing a miscarriage?

“If there’s one law about life we find consistently in the Old Testament, it is that the punishment for taking a life is death. “Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person’s blood be shed” (Genesis 9:6).
God’s law in Exodus expands this principle, assigning the death penalty for premeditated murder, striking a person mortally (second degree murder), killing a slave, kidnapping, striking a parent, or even cursing one’s parents (see Exodus 21:12-21).
However, the penalty for causing a miscarriage is significantly less severe:
‘When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.’ (Exodus 21:22-25)
A person who strikes a pregnant woman—causing her to miscarry—is not put to death. Instead, they are fined whatever amount ‘the woman’s husband demands’ (can you say: “patriarchy”) and only punished further ‘if any harm follows.’
This comes directly after the death penalty is assigned to anyone who takes a life.
It would seem, therefore, that God’s law in the Old Testament recognizes a difference between human life outside the womb (once first breath has been drawn) and the potential life status of a developing fetus.

Terminating pregnancies that result from adultery

“This final example is (admittedly) the most bizarre of the bunch.
Numbers 5:11-31 prescribes a procedure for dealing with an unfaithful wife which—in order to be fully grasped—should be read in its entirety.
Essentially, if a man suspects that his wife became pregnant through adultery, he is to bring her before a priest, along with a grain offering. The priest brings the woman before God and forces her to drink a concoction made of holy water and some dust from the tabernacle floor. Before she drinks, however, the priest messes up the woman’s hair, puts the offering in her hands, and makes her swear before God that she has not been unfaithful.
After that, the grain offering is offered and the woman drinks the bitter water. If she has been faithful, nothing happens.
But if she cheated on her husband, her uterus will drop, and the pregnancy will be lost.

“I have never heard a pro-life Christian cite this passage—and for good reason. Aside from the downright zany nature of the ritual, it would seem (based on Numbers 5) that it is (at the very least) lawful to terminate a pregnancy that results from adultery.

“One could argue that the same standard should apply to pregnancies resulting from rape or incest—exceptions that are not found in some state abortion bans, and which often place undue burdens on rape victims to prove they’ve been raped.” — Rev. Dr. Dan Brockway (Emphasis added)

https://christiancitizen.us/when-does-life-begin-reckoning-with-surprising-answers-in-scripture/
b According to the bible, a person is not “alive”... (show quote)


Not very intelligent to Bear false witness of scriptures you know nothing about. I won’t go every point but maybe one or two. When it comes to Adam God created Adam as a human adult not a fetus not a baby not in the womb. He created The adult body, and then breathe the breath of life into him.
The other Misrepresentation you posted was this. You used a different interpretation.

Exodus 21:22-25 says, “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

𝐏𝐬𝐚𝐥𝐦 𝟏𝟑𝟗:𝟏𝟑-𝟏𝟔
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

𝐋𝐮𝐤𝐞 𝟏:𝟑𝟗-𝟒𝟓
In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a town in Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would beg a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”

𝐉𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐦𝐢𝐚𝐡 𝟏:𝟒-𝟓
Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

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May 6, 2024 16:09:06   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
jcboy3 wrote:
Faulty logic. An unborn child is not a person because a person is born.


I agree, you have faulty logic. The fact is, fetus means unborn offspring which means child.

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May 6, 2024 16:16:37   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
jcboy3 wrote:
Faulty logic. An unborn child is not a person because a person is born.


If the so-called fetus is not a person or alive, then why are you pro abortionist so offended by pictures of aborted fetuses?

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May 6, 2024 16:36:05   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
Well, this didn’t take long to turn into a religious fight, did it.

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May 6, 2024 17:04:36   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
ArtzDarkroom wrote:
Christ was a Jew and Judaism does not consider a pregnancy a separate life... so abortion is acceptable.


LOL..... Wasn't his purpose here on earth to turn Judaism onto its head?

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May 6, 2024 17:20:08   #
Frank T Loc: New York, NY
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
LOL..... Wasn't his purpose here on earth to turn Judaism onto its head?


Are you saying Jesus was an antisemite?

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May 6, 2024 17:20:38   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
Wyantry wrote:
A nice answer. Rational. Well presented. Non-judgmental. Not dependent on religious orthodoxy.

So what does it really mean to be a person? Is consciousness a determining factor? What about the reaction to external stimuli (e.g. sound, movement, pain)?

At what point does a collection-of-cells become a “person”? And who decides, anyway?

Both Religiously and Scientifically (biologically) many consider “Life” begins when gametes combine and DNA strands combine. Or Conception. Prior to that it is just egg and sperm.

For millenia, in jewish orthodoxy and others, life has been considered as commencing at birth.
From the Talmudic teachings:

”Let us first establish the time that a fetus legally acquires the status equal to an adult human being. The Talmud states in part that if the ‘greater part was already born, one may not touch it, for one may not set aside one person’s life for that of another.’
Thus the act of birth changes the status of the fetus from a nonperson to a person (nefesh).
Killing the newborn after this point is infanticide.”

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-beginning-of-life-in-judaism/
~~~~~~~~~~

Or “Life” begins when the fetus can survive on its own. Or when the mother detects movement (“quickening”).

A listing of some faiths and their position on abortion is:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/01/16/religious-groups-official-positions-on-abortion/
~~~~~~~~~~

It seems that orthodoxy enforced upon women by a (largely) group of judgmental male-Ayatollahs is wrong.
It should be the personal decision of the woman.
And ALWAYS allowable in cases of incest, rape or to provide for the health of the mother.
b A nice answer. Rational. Well presented. N... (show quote)


I like you post as it shows good research as well as showing that the righting are from 100's if not 1,000's of years ago when there were no realistic medical knowledge regarding reproduction/pregnancy.

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May 6, 2024 17:32:25   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
Racmanaz wrote:
Why would you include men unless the men supported the abortion? If the man does not support the abortion, how could it be included? I’m actually not in favor of charging women for the murder just the Doctor Who performed the abortion. But again, like I’ve said before, I’ll leave it to the voters of each state, whether I like the law or not.


Rac's Q/MAGA regurgitation - "I’m actually not in favor of charging women for the murder just the Doctor Who performed the abortion."
This po-faced wankery passes for compassionate common sense in MAGAsville.

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May 6, 2024 17:45:13   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
Texcaster wrote:
Rac's Q/MAGA regurgitation - "I’m actually not in favor of charging women for the murder just the Doctor Who performed the abortion."
This po-faced wankery passes for compassionate common sense in MAGAsville.


What about JUSTIFIED HOMICIDE for the many cases where abortion is needed.

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May 6, 2024 17:47:21   #
Harvey Loc: Pioneer, CA
 
jaymatt wrote:
Well, this didn’t take long to turn into a religious fight, did it.


Only fools argue religion and politics

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May 6, 2024 18:08:42   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
Harvey wrote:
Only fools argue religion and politics



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May 6, 2024 19:25:38   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
Harvey wrote:
Only fools argue religion and politics


Isn’t that exactly what you were doing?

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May 6, 2024 19:28:20   #
jcboy3
 
Racmanaz wrote:
If the so-called fetus is not a person or alive, then why are you pro abortionist so offended by pictures of aborted fetuses?


I'm not. But I have the same response to showing pictures of dead animals or surgical procedures or you taking a dump in the alley; time and place, time and place.

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May 6, 2024 19:37:23   #
Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!
 
jcboy3 wrote:
I'm not. But I have the same response to showing pictures of dead animals or surgical procedures or you taking a dump in the alley; time and place, time and place.


You really have some serious issues. You need to get help.

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May 6, 2024 19:38:54   #
jcboy3
 
Racmanaz wrote:
You really have some serious issues. You need to get help.


At this time, the only issues I have are with your stupid posts...

And trying to get out of the 50% tax bracket.

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