Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

I think that there will always be problems and that is my point. It starts with the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire after WWI and the colonial governments and broken promises of self governance. Then after WWII the west creates the Israeli state against the will of the Arabs in the area. We have colonialism, the appropriations of lands, and religious conflict all contributing to the lingering unrest in the area not to mention Israel's security measures that many see as oppressing the Palestinians in both the Gaza and the West Bank.

So, how is this going to be fixed, in my opinion it won't be, the two state solution was suggested and worked on as far back as the 1940's and has never been accepted in earnest by either or both sides. We know that children are taught from a young age that it just to hate and even kill Jews in an effort to rid the land of their stain......

Personally I don't see a change happening, again as we have so many times before tried to apply our principles and norms on a people which does not share them and we have failed time and time again.

In my opinion if Israel can make peace and alliances with other nations in the area progress will be made, the casualities will be the Palestinian people and their hope for a state of their own without the presence of the Jews in the area.

The Jewish people have the own presence in the area dating all the way back to 1200 BC or so and in 900BC there was the Northern Israel and in 850 BC there was Judah. So, it is not quite fair for any to suggest that the Israelis have no claim to be in the Middle East, they have come home to the land from which they were expelled by stronger warring powers.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

To destroy the leadership and the military structure that Hamas has built over the years, as well as it's infrastructure under the ground and cities is the current goal of Israel. In doing so it will minimize the severity of the future threat coming from the Gaza Strip for years to come. That is what is happening in Gaza and you are quite correct that it is coming at a great cost to the Palestinian people, but they are the same people who have elected a terrorist organization to govern Gaza and they have supported the attack of 10/7 as well as all previous attacks on the Israeli people. No one wants to see women, children, and even men killed, but Israel did not ask for this war however for the security of their people they will fight it and they will pursue their goal of eliminating Hamas to the point that it is no longer a near term threat.

Triple G

I agree. Jews have continually been persecuted. Israel as a nation state is different than Jews as a religion and heritage. I believe that Netanayhu has been aligned with Hamas to the detriment of Jews in both Palestine and Israel. He also had made a deal with the devil.

https://www.ajc.org/news/10-tough-questions-on-antisemitism-explained

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Triple G

Israel has been keeping the festering war going for years by supporting Hamas thinking that it agreed with their plan for one nation from "river to sea".

btbg

Iran won't end the war. They wanted it, they funded it and they trained Hamas.

I don't understand how you can recognize that if Hamas is gone they will get some otjer terrorist group to tale their place and still say theee are innocents involves. They are just teaching thos innocents to hate Israel too.

I really don't know what else Israel was supposted to do. If they.don't go after Hamas the attacks will never end and if they do the world suddenly decides they are the bad guys.

Iran and Hamas are evil. That is just a fact that shiuld enter into the equation, yet our college students are siding with evil that has publicly stated their desire to destroy both Israel and us. It is lunacy no matter how badly you feel for the Palestinian people. The vast majority of them brought this on themselves.

Its not like Israel is targeting women and children. They are targeting Hamas so they are hiding in the middle of women and children.

btbg

The college students are wrong. They are suoporting Hamas and Iran. Whether they know it or not they are suooorting evil.

Triple G

There are reports that what Israel calls surgical strikes are not. Students don't want Israel to keep bombing Palestinians and want their schools to remove themselves from anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel funding. I haven't seen mass support for Iran or Hamas except for some extremists. It's not the core of the pro-Palestinian movement

You see it very differently than I do. Israel does not come to the court of public opinion with clean hands.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/s-palestinian-protests-us-rcna143666

DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods

Antidotal most are not and you know it..

btbg

No we don't know that. If they do not believe tjat they shouldn't be associating with them but they are not only associating them they are surrounding the bad apples to make it hard for police to support them. To me and many others that means they are on the same side.

On top of that there have been multiple interviews with some of tje :more moderate" protesters and they refuse to condemn Hamas. If they are condemning Israel and not Hamas then they are siding with Hamas.

btbg

They do not have clean hands in the court of puvlic oppinion, but each time their is a co flict Israel does not start it. The court of public oppinion does not appear to believe that Israel should have the right to defend themselves.

As to surgical strikes or not I bekieve that is their intent. You and I bith know that Hamas hides among civilians so if you try to attack Hamas you get civilians. No one in their right mind should take the Palestinian Authority's word for anything. They are proven liars. Look at the hospital they hit with their own rocket and tried to blame Israel for. Israel has made many mistakes, but defending themswlves aggressively is not one of them.

You are correct that we see things very differently. I understand that you have gone back and looked at some of the history, which most who are condemning Israel have not, and I appreciate that.

Unfortunately I think that in many cases you are looking at the wrong articles and are not going back far enough.

You have cited the Oslo Accords more than once and yes the PLO finally accepted Israels right to exist and then the Palestinians chose an even more radical government. The only Palestinians I really feel sorry for are the small group of Palestinian Christians that have been persecuted by Hamas and now have to endure the attack from Israel as well. If the Palestinians don't want women and children to die all they have to do is stop hiding within the general populace and return the hostages. If they do that Israel will finish destroying all the tunnels and leave. Thats on them.

Triple G

Hopefully, the latest efforts by Egypt and other countries in the area to create a cease fire agreement and hostage return will bring the temperature down...for awhile at least.

btbg

I hope for that as well but am less optimitix than you that it will occur.

Triple G

I can be hopeful without being optimistic.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Would you say the same of a bunch of White kids running around campus waving Rebel flags chanting we are KKK? There is no difference Denny.

Triple G

They'd get arrested just as the those who are chanting pro-Hamas lines. Terrorism is terrorism.

But, that is not the core group who have been protesting the war since October and wanting some transparency of funding from pro-Israeli sources. Their requests have gone nowhere so peaceful protests and exercising free speech is their next step. There are bad actors among them as pro-Hamas and antisemitic. Were back to the Charlotte and BLM protests where a broad brush is used for a few.