The problem with campus protests (Page 6): Here is what I do know. The "Church" began legitimately as a symbol of the "body". But in very short order, it became a political...

srg

SteveR wrote:

Then again, you don't know a lot about it, do you. You just dismiss it outright.

Here is what I do know. The "Church" began legitimately as a symbol of the "body".
But in very short order, it became a political institution. One of the strongest in the world. I do know that this is the temporary takeover by the Dark Forces. Once we pass through the eye of the needle, we will look back at all the church Fat Cats who did not make it through. Do you worship with Joel Osteen and his jet riding, mansion living grifter christians?

btbg

Shutterbug1697 wrote:

Is there a link between the campus protests and Soros?

Yes. That is easy to find on line. Just google who is funding the campus protests.

btbg

Triple G wrote:

There are some protestors chanting that, but not all. Just like in the 1960's, police presence on campuses to quell what students believe is free speech is a messy operation.

https://www.thefire.org/news/saying-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free-protected-speech-under-first-amendment

The Hamas attack was certainly barbaric and I condemn it strongly. There is no rationale for any of the killing over property rights. It will never end until that is settled. It's sad, but a terrorist outfit is expected to be conscienceless, but a religious nation state is expected to behave according to national and international norms and laws. The world is beginning to sour on Israeli actions.

South Africa: The Foreign Ministry issued a statement calling for de-escalation and blaming the conflagration on "the continued illegal occupation of Palestine land, continued settlement expansion, desecration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Christian holy sites, and ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people". South Africa affirmed its support of a two-state solution.[43] Foreign minister Naledi Pandor was criticized by the South African Jewish Board of deputies for taking a phone call from Hamas ten days after its attack and accused her of taking sides in the conflict. Pandor denied expressing support for Hamas and said that she expressed support for the Palestinian people and discussed aid for the people of Gaza.[44][45] South Africa voted against condemning Hamas at the United Nations.[20] On 6 November, Minister in the Presidency, Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, announced a withdrawal of all its diplomats from Israel.[13] On 21 November, the National Assembly passed a motion calling for the closure of the Israeli embassy and the cutting of diplomatic ties until Israel agreed to a cease-fire in Gaza.[46] On 29 December, South Africa submitted the case South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention) to the International Court of Justice arguing that Israel was responsible for a genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#:~:text=A%20number%20of%20countries%2C%20including,Muslim%20world%20(including%20the%20Axis

I'm afraid there is no peaceful solution. I support self determination and sovereignty for both Israel and Palestine and strongly oppose aggression and attacks from either side.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/from-surgical-strikes-to-dumb-bombs-experts-weigh-in-on-israels-methods-in-gaza/1frffb2a0

https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-does-destroying-hamas-mean#:~:text=Israel%20has%20three%20broad%20options,them%20to%20displace%20the%20group.

There are some protestors chanting that, but not a... (show quote)

You are correct about the world comdemning Israel. I just don't get why. Every nation who is condemning them would have attacked just like Israel assuming the same provacation.

If you look at the post you made you will note that South Africa refused to condemn Hamas just like most other nations in the U.N. If everyone on the side of the Palestinians took the positiin you are there might be room for discussion and compromise, but that is not the position being taken. Most refuse to condemn Hamas or even to demand that they return the hostages.

Your previous post from the New York Times admitted that the numbers of dead Palestinians is suspect because of who is providing the data, so it is likely that the number of ci ilians killed is badky inflated. On top of that their nbers do not refkect how many of the dead are actually civilians rather than combatants.

There is another problem with yiur anakysis as well and that is that Hamas is not just a terrorist organization, it is also the duly elected government.

One other important fact that is being ignored. This attack was timed purely to stip the peace treaty that Israel and Saudi Arabia were about to sign.

Regardless of how well intentioned the protesters might be whether they know it or not they are supporting Iran who is clearly an enemy of the U.S. Even assuming Israel has no moral high ground, which I dispute, they are still on the side of a group that regularly chants death to Israel and death to the United States.

You and the protesters do not seem to get that Hamas is the Palestinians.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

I'm not sure they hold Hamas as blameless, but as protecting Palestinian land (deal with the devil) and seeing Israel as the aggressor against Palestinians and "their" land. College students are idealistic and more emotional than rational.

"College students fairly overwhelmingly want their colleges to Boycott and Divest from corporations that are benefiting Israel's actions in Gaza.

More than 30 states have laws on the books that prohibit any institution receiving state funding from boycotting Israeli businesses.

Those two things are in strong opposition to each other, which means nothing is getting done on the institutional side. Because nothing is getting done and the academic year is getting closer to the end, students are escalating their protests across the US by starting encampments on campus to put further pressure on the administration to do something.

Basically, this doesn't end until the school year ends, and colleges are doing whatever they can to tamp down student action until then, hoping the summer gives them a few months breathing room for everything to blow over."

The New York Times podcast did a pretty good story on Columbia University in New York City.

The universities are juggling (in no particular order) 1) keeping students safe 2) making students feel safe 3) keeping donors/patrons happy 4) keeping politicians off their back 5) allowing protests with as little disruption as possible (sort of self contradictory).

As far as the various students and professors go....
About
This is extremely complicated because there are so many different camps and bad faith actors. Just two quick examples. One can support Palestine's right to exist without supporting and even denouncing Hamas. One can also support Israel existing while being against illegal settlements that foot by foot expand Israel by stealing peoples homes and erasing the possibility of a Palestine state.. You will have extreme views on both ends that try to push people towards different corners. Each extreme end tries to justify their version of a genocide as being justified. Since everyone in the conflict has committed war crimes, it's easy point the finger at the enemy, instead of working on a solution and look inward. An NPR article from January had these statistics.

"Palestinian militants killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and took about 250 hostages back to Gaza."

"Since the war started, 25,105 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, while another 62,681 have been wounded, the Health Ministry said." ( The ministry of health is run by Hamas so the numbers can be a bit suspicious, but Israel won't allow independent journalist so I don't trust them either.)

It's also important to know that Netanyahu who is Israel's prime minister in extremely corrupt and disliked. This war has a wag the dog like aspect, as it delays his trial/s. So an hard right unpopular politician has strong incentives to keep it going. Even though many believe he is responsible at least partially for the war due to his policies in the first place.

TLDR: So with that...Some Pro-Palestinian students/professors want their universities to divest from business and educational interests. Some Pro-Palestinian students/professors are chanting Hamas genocidal chant/slogans and threatening Jewish students. Some pro-Israeli students/professors are trying to equate any criticism of Israel as being anti-semitic. Some Jewish students feel reasonably afraid for their lives. As is often the case, the loudest voices tend to be most extreme and drown out any reasonable discussion.

Meanwhile the universities just want to keep teaching/making that money, and moving students through with as little effort as possible. They have to decide the pros and cons of what will de-escalate or escalate the situation. As in call the cops, or let the protests continue. Those two things are in strong opposition to each other, which means nothing is getting done on the institutional side. Because nothing is getting done and the academic year is getting closer to the end, students are escalating their protests across the US by starting encampments on campus to put further pressure on the administration to do something.

Basically, this doesn't end until the school year ends, and colleges are doing whatever they can to tamp down student action until then, hoping the summer gives them a few months breathing room for everything to blow over.

I'm not sure they hold Hamas as blameless, but as ... (show quote)

So, would you be saying the same if the protesters were wearing red caps displaying support of the KKK while making black students feel it unsafe to be on campus? You have to look at the reality of what is going on and understand that the jewish student's civil rights are being threatened by the protests and hate speech that is occurring on campus. The left's understanding of the first amendment amazes me, the protesters have the right to all the hate speech they want to spew, they don't have the right to take over college campuses, roadways, bridges, or in any other way disrupt the lives of their fellow citizens, clearly such acts are not a first amendment right.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

There are some protestors chanting that, but not all. Just like in the 1960's, police presence on campuses to quell what students believe is free speech is a messy operation.

https://www.thefire.org/news/saying-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free-protected-speech-under-first-amendment

The Hamas attack was certainly barbaric and I condemn it strongly. There is no rationale for any of the killing over property rights. It will never end until that is settled. It's sad, but a terrorist outfit is expected to be conscienceless, but a religious nation state is expected to behave according to national and international norms and laws. The world is beginning to sour on Israeli actions.

South Africa: The Foreign Ministry issued a statement calling for de-escalation and blaming the conflagration on "the continued illegal occupation of Palestine land, continued settlement expansion, desecration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and Christian holy sites, and ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people". South Africa affirmed its support of a two-state solution.[43] Foreign minister Naledi Pandor was criticized by the South African Jewish Board of deputies for taking a phone call from Hamas ten days after its attack and accused her of taking sides in the conflict. Pandor denied expressing support for Hamas and said that she expressed support for the Palestinian people and discussed aid for the people of Gaza.[44][45] South Africa voted against condemning Hamas at the United Nations.[20] On 6 November, Minister in the Presidency, Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, announced a withdrawal of all its diplomats from Israel.[13] On 21 November, the National Assembly passed a motion calling for the closure of the Israeli embassy and the cutting of diplomatic ties until Israel agreed to a cease-fire in Gaza.[46] On 29 December, South Africa submitted the case South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention) to the International Court of Justice arguing that Israel was responsible for a genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#:~:text=A%20number%20of%20countries%2C%20including,Muslim%20world%20(including%20the%20Axis

I'm afraid there is no peaceful solution. I support self determination and sovereignty for both Israel and Palestine and strongly oppose aggression and attacks from either side.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/from-surgical-strikes-to-dumb-bombs-experts-weigh-in-on-israels-methods-in-gaza/1frffb2a0

https://www.csis.org/analysis/what-does-destroying-hamas-mean#:~:text=Israel%20has%20three%20broad%20options,them%20to%20displace%20the%20group.

There are some protestors chanting that, but not a... (show quote)

Do you actually think that as long as Israel exists that the Palestinians will ever allow for peace?

Triple G

btbg wrote:

You are correct about the world comdemning Israel.... (show quote)

There is no Palestine without Hamas...the deal with the devil. If Hamas is eradicated, some other terrorist group will fill the void. That could be Hezbollah. Anger, vengeance, terror and killing are all they know since peace has never lasted long. There is no honor nor honesty, so no peace plan will succeed. You can say Palestine is Hamas and say they deserve what they get, but there are too many reasons I can't get there; innocent children, peaceful Palestinians, elderly and a belief that they deserve to be safe in a homeland.

If there is any possible ending of current war, it lies within leadership within Iran, Jordan, Qatar, etc. They know who the financiers and leaders are and where they live.

Triple G

Blurryeyed wrote:

Do you actually think that as long as Israel exists that the Palestinians will ever allow for peace?

Yes. They did with the Oslo Accords.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

Yes. They did with the Oslo Accords.

Did they really?

'
Oslo Accords

"The Oslo Accords are a pair of interim agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO): the Oslo I Accord, signed in Washington, D.C., in 1993;[1] and the Oslo II Accord, signed in Taba, Egypt, in 1995.[2] They marked the start of the Oslo process, a peace process aimed at achieving a peace treaty based on Resolution 242 and Resolution 338 of the United Nations Security Council. The Oslo process began after secret negotiations in Oslo, Norway, resulting in both the recognition of Israel by the PLO and the recognition by Israel of the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and as a partner in bilateral negotiations.
Among the notable outcomes of the Oslo Accords was the creation of the Palestinian National Authority, which was tasked with the responsibility of conducting limited Palestinian self-governance over parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip; and the international acknowledgement of the PLO as Israel's partner in permanent-status negotiations about any remaining issues revolving around the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Bilateral dialogue stems from questions related to the international border between Israel and a future Palestinian state: negotiations for this subject are centered around Israeli settlements, the status of Jerusalem, Israel's maintenance of control over security following the establishment of Palestinian autonomy, and the Palestinian right of return. The Oslo Accords did not create a definite Palestinian state.[3]
A large portion of the Palestinian population, including various Palestinian militant groups, staunchly opposed the Oslo Accords; Palestinian-American philosopher Edward Said described them as a "Palestinian Versailles".[4] The peace process was strained by the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre as well as by Hamas suicide bombings and attacks.[5][6] Far-right Israelis also opposed the Oslo Accords, and Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by a right-wing Israeli extremist for signing them.[7][8] The Oslo process ended after the failure of the Camp David Summit in 2000 and the outbreak of the Second Intifada."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Triple G

Blurryeyed wrote:

Did they really?

'
Oslo Accords

"The Oslo Accords are a pair of interim agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO): the Oslo I Accord, signed in Washington, D.C., in 1993;[1] and the Oslo II Accord, signed in Taba, Egypt, in 1995.[2] They marked the start of the Oslo process, a peace process aimed at achieving a peace treaty based on Resolution 242 and Resolution 338 of the United Nations Security Council. The Oslo process began after secret negotiations in Oslo, Norway, resulting in both the recognition of Israel by the PLO and the recognition by Israel of the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and as a partner in bilateral negotiations.
Among the notable outcomes of the Oslo Accords was the creation of the Palestinian National Authority, which was tasked with the responsibility of conducting limited Palestinian self-governance over parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip; and the international acknowledgement of the PLO as Israel's partner in permanent-status negotiations about any remaining issues revolving around the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Bilateral dialogue stems from questions related to the international border between Israel and a future Palestinian state: negotiations for this subject are centered around Israeli settlements, the status of Jerusalem, Israel's maintenance of control over security following the establishment of Palestinian autonomy, and the Palestinian right of return. The Oslo Accords did not create a definite Palestinian state.[3]
A large portion of the Palestinian population, including various Palestinian militant groups, staunchly opposed the Oslo Accords; Palestinian-American philosopher Edward Said described them as a "Palestinian Versailles".[4] The peace process was strained by the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre as well as by Hamas suicide bombings and attacks.[5][6] Far-right Israelis also opposed the Oslo Accords, and Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by a right-wing Israeli extremist for signing them.[7][8] The Oslo process ended after the failure of the Camp David Summit in 2000 and the outbreak of the Second Intifada."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Did they really? br br ' br Oslo Accords br br ... (show quote)

Yes, from 1993 when talks began to 2000. The far-right Israelis also opposed the deal and assassinated Rabin in 1995 soon after the signing. It was an uneasy peace, but they lived up to the accords in having elections etc. Read the timeline I posted to BTBG. It was Israelis who broke the accords agreements.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

Yes, from 1993 when talks began to 2000. The far-right Israelis also opposed the deal and assassinated Rabin in 1995 soon after the signing. It was an uneasy peace, but they lived up to the accords in having elections etc. Read the timeline I posted to BTBG. It was Israelis who broke the accords agreements.

The part about the hard right Israelis and the assignation was included in the clipping I posted.

DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods

btbg wrote:

I disagree, but lets say you are right that neither side is blameless. Then why are college students in the U.S. refusing to condemn Hamas and demanding that Israel stand down now? That makes no sense. If both sides are wrong they should both be condemned. Right now there are students on U.S. campuses shouting from the river to the sea which is the Palestinian chant for the death of Israel. That is just plain nuts, even accepting your initial premise.

That’s not what college students are saying !

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

DennyT wrote:

That’s not what college students are saying !

Yes it is Denny as well as "We are Hamas!"

Triple G

Blurryeyed wrote:

The part about the hard right Israelis and the assignation was included in the clipping I posted.

Read the other article anyway to put it in context of all the other activities. It's not any one incident that has fueled the hatred.

Triple G

Blurryeyed wrote:

Yes it is Denny as well as "We are Hamas!"

Some are. Arrest them immediately.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Why does the world so dislike and even hate the Jews? Even in this country before the current situation in Gaza hate crimes in this country were disproportionately committed against Jews, and if you look at the UN voting record that involves Israel, well it does not reflect common sense and fairness.