The problem with campus protests (Page 4): "btbg sez ... "What else is Israel supposed to do?" Be a Mensch? Ask someone smarter than me.

Texcaster Loc: Queensland

btbg wrote:

I agree there is no simple solution but you keep saying Bebi is wrong but give no legitate solution and that is exactly what the rest of the world is doing. They are condemning Israel but giving them no valid alternative and they are also failing to condemn Hamas. Why? Hamas started it and could end it tomorrow by returning tje hostages.

Just look at tje current protests in tje U.S. they are condemning Israel siding with Hamas and not condning Hamas. What else is Israel supposed to do?

"btbg sez ... "What else is Israel supposed to do?" Be a Mensch? Ask someone smarter than me.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

Neither side is blameless in this conflict and it will continue.

https://www.usip.org/publications/2024/02/plan-gazas-future-highlights-challenges-lie-ahead

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/28/the-beginning-of-the-end-the-hypothetical-future-of-palestinian-politics

Well hopefully Biden/Blinken will not be a consideration come 2025.

btbg

Triple G wrote:

Neither side is blameless in this conflict and it will continue.

https://www.usip.org/publications/2024/02/plan-gazas-future-highlights-challenges-lie-ahead

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/28/the-beginning-of-the-end-the-hypothetical-future-of-palestinian-politics

I disagree, but lets say you are right that neither side is blameless. Then why are college students in the U.S. refusing to condemn Hamas and demanding that Israel stand down now? That makes no sense. If both sides are wrong they should both be condemned. Right now there are students on U.S. campuses shouting from the river to the sea which is the Palestinian chant for the death of Israel. That is just plain nuts, even accepting your initial premise.

Triple G

Blurryeyed wrote:

Well hopefully Biden/Blinken will not be a consideration come 2025.

I'm not talking about the Biden administration.

It's the leaders of Israel and Hamas who are not blameless. Protests for a pro-Palestinian right to their sovereign nation is spreading around the world. US has picked a side; that hasn't served us well as evidenced by the outcome of siding with the Shah of Persia for all those years. Problem is after all the years invested, how do you say you want out?

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/27/netanyahu-biden-israel-gaza-war-tensions

btbg

Triple G wrote:

I'm not talking about the Biden administration.

It's the leaders of Israel and Hamas who are not blameless. Protests for a pro-Palestinian right to their sovereign nation is spreading around the world. US has picked a side; that hasn't served us well as evidenced by the outcome of siding with the Shah of Persia for all those years. Problem is after all the years invested, how do you say you want out?

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/27/netanyahu-biden-israel-gaza-war-tensions

Did you not bother to look at the link I posted about the Palestinians ties to NAZI Germany? It still applies because their primary motivstion is exterminating Jews. They do not even recognize the right of Israel to exist and you think we are on the wrong side?

Triple G

Triple G wrote:

I'm not talking about the Biden administration. ... (show quote)

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

I'm not talking about the Biden administration.

It's the leaders of Israel and Hamas who are not blameless. Protests for a pro-Palestinian right to their sovereign nation is spreading around the world. US has picked a side; that hasn't served us well as evidenced by the outcome of siding with the Shah of Persia for all those years. Problem is after all the years invested, how do you say you want out?

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/27/netanyahu-biden-israel-gaza-war-tensions

That is certainly one take on the situation. Personally I don't share it. There is such a thing as right and wrong no matter what the rest of the world thinks, it may be that you and I see the issue differently but there are those of us who don't care what the world thinks.

Kinda like when the UN nominates an Iranian ambassador to head its human rights commission, sometimes their moral compass and mine don't align.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Triple G wrote:

I'm not talking about the Biden administration.

It's the leaders of Israel and Hamas who are not blameless. Protests for a pro-Palestinian right to their sovereign nation is spreading around the world. US has picked a side; that hasn't served us well as evidenced by the outcome of siding with the Shah of Persia for all those years. Problem is after all the years invested, how do you say you want out?

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/27/netanyahu-biden-israel-gaza-war-tensions

I do believe that the article you linked spoke a great deal about the division between the Biden administration and Netanyahu.

Triple G

btbg wrote:

Did you not bother to look at the link I posted about the Palestinians ties to NAZI Germany? It still applies because their primary motivstion is exterminating Jews. They do not even recognize the right of Israel to exist and you think we are on the wrong side?

https://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/archives-and-reference-library/online-resources/simon-wiesenthal-center-annual-volume-4/annual-4-chapter-17.html

"Germany's Palestine policy between 1933 and 1940 was based on a fundamental acceptance of the post-World War I status quo in the Middle East. For different reasons, the Hitler regime continued in the footsteps of the various Weimar governments by identifying German interests with the postwar settlement in Palestine. That settlement embodied a growing Jewish presence and homeland in Palestine, as well as the establishment of British imperial power over Palestine and the Middle East. It also represented a denial of Arab claims to national self-determination and independence in Palestine and throughout the Middle East. Between 1933 and 1940, German policy encouraged and actively promoted Jewish emigration to Palestine, recognized and respected Britain's imperial interests throughout the Middle East and remained largely indifferent to the ideals and aims of Arab nationalism. (p. 201)"

In this very complicated conflict, the students are showing the following sentiments:

Pro-Palestine
Pro-Israel
Anti-Zionism
Anti-USA involvement and Israeli support

Unraveling this has to start with a cease far so some substantive talks can occur. It's basically an anti-war protest by young people who have to live in the world post war just like we did against Vietnam Nam. Need to be able to allow and protect protestors, yet arrest incite to violence and violence committing protestors. We still haven't figured out how to do that.

https://www.vox.com/2024/4/24/24138333/columbia-student-protests-gaza-nyu-divest-faculty

btbg

Triple G wrote:

https://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/archiv... (show quote)

You forget that Germanies policy was to exterminate Jews. Hamas has tje same policy. How do you negotiate with someone who denies your rigjt to exist?

Triple G

btbg wrote:

You forget that Germanies policy was to exterminate Jews. Hamas has tje same policy. How do you negotiate with someone who denies your rigjt to exist?

If it were just terrorists on their own soil, bomb away. That's not the situation when they've taken over Palestine from which to do their terror. Germany was okay with Jews in Israel and Palestine per the article. There's no peace with Israel when they and Palestine claim the same sovereignty.

Triple G

Blurryeyed wrote:

I do believe that the article you linked spoke a great deal about the division between the Biden administration and Netanyahu.

US is sending Israel fire power while trying to bargain some sort of talks and cease fire. It's a pretty tenuous position to be in when 1/2 of the USA (older pro WWII Bomb)are pro-Israel and the other 1/2 of the USA (younger everyone has right to self determination) is pro-Palestine.

I don't like Netanyu's position on postwar Palestine either and he's barely held on to power so many of his constituents may not either.

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-798592
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-presents-first-official-post-gaza-war-plan-2024-02-23/

SteveR Loc: Michigan

One thing to take into consideration is Israel's history. When attacked in the past it has responded decisively until its foe was vanquished. Others have learned that lesson, you'd think Hamas would have known it. So, put the blame for all of this on Hamas for one for not knowing their history.

Triple G

SteveR wrote:

One thing to take into consideration is Israel's history. When attacked in the past it has responded decisively until its foe was vanquished. Others have learned that lesson, you'd think Hamas would have known it. So, put the blame for all of this on Hamas for one for not knowing their history.

To the victor goes the spoils.

btbg

Triple G wrote:

If it were just terrorists on their own soil, bomb away. That's not the situation when they've taken over Palestine from which to do their terror. Germany was okay with Jews in Israel and Palestine per the article. There's no peace with Israel when they and Palestine claim the same sovereignty.

It is just terrorists on their own soil. More than 70 percent of the Palestinians voted for Hamas and they still support them, so they are siding with the terrorists. That makes them part of the terrorist problem. The only reason not to just bonb away is because they would still like to rescue the hostages.

The bigger problem that you still choose not to address is that they refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist. How do you negotiate with someone who takes that stance? The Palestinians have never had their own nation, and when Israel was first recognized they had options of places to settle and chose not to take them.

As to Germany being OK with Jews existing their that might be true, but the reason the Palestinians were so eager to ally with Germany was because they wanted to eradicate Jews just like Germany, and tjat is still their wish.